Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 217: Bounty Hunters Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Yeah, but when George did it, he only lifted bits of it. Yeah the two tall and skinny/short and fat bickering duo on a mission to escort a princess through enemy territory with The MacGuffin is a large part of Hidden Fortress, but that's only one small facet of Star Wars. George went and added in a whole bunch of other stuff, so I'm okay with that.

And I'm okay if they rip off Kurosawa and do it really, really freakin' well. A Fist Full of Dollars is totally shameless too, but it's such a Crowning Moment of Awesome, with such a badass in the lead, that I'll overlook the complete re-appropriation of the Yojimbo script. Clone Wars was considerably less awesome than A Fist Full of Dollars (or even The Magnificent Seven). It's more on par with Battle Beyond the Stars.

(And if you're wondering, I'll give Battle Beyond the Stars a pass because it's John Boy driving a flying talking uterus against John Saxon. How can you not love THAT?)

As for the whole notion that the show is a children's show, and that you cant have sharp writing and deep characters, I'll offer up the direct counterpoint evidence: Doctor Who. They have all of the above and don't write down to the kids with simplified plots. Also, I don't buy that it's a just a kids show solely on the level of graphic violence here - you know, episodes where people get burned alive by flamethrowers on screen? So no, "It's a kids show" isn't a valid defense, because clearly it's not.

 

I still don't understand why people praise Star Wars.
All it's stories are homages to other films...

 

I definitely don't think it's a kids show. I do think for the time they had they did a good job with adapting the premise. Kurosawa had three freaking hours to develop the characters. I think it was I think in terms of action the episode was extremely good. If you can't enjoy that then there's no hope for you.

 

Not "rip offs," though.

 

Again which moves did Embo ripoff?

 

Doctor Who has 45 minutes per episode in order to develop characters and concepts; Clone Wars only has 22 minutes per episode..... and a good portion of that 22 minutes goes to action scenes and et cetera, which Doctor Who can't do quite as well. Clone Wars is at its very heart an action show, and expecting an action show to develop characters and concepts in 10-15 minutes (allowing time for action sequences) just as well as Doctor Who episodes that do it in nearly 45 minutes (let alone a full-length motion picture) is frankly ludicrous. Frankly, the only forms of entertainment that TCW can be legitimately compared to are children shows (mainly those which feature action as their main draw) and well..... action movies.

 

Doesn't make Embo any less awesome, at least until he gets taken out of the fight.

 

Just saw it.

Good first act, as usually, but unlike the past few weeks it finished strong.

A solid episode. I would give it a 7/10 maybe a 7.5 and it def. felt like a homage and not a rip-off, credit to the screenwriter Carl Ellsworth.

Great line from Obi-wan "we crashed the ship your way." Very PT Obi-wan line.

Embo was cool, good dialogue and nice to see characters not always speaking English/basic. Bonus points for offering no written translation... as it was not needed. The only part I didn't like was when he spun through the air the first time, totally defying gravity... that was way too much and unrealistic, even for SW. This show sometimes worries me when they have regular folk acting like superheroes.

Also, though I understand the need for it to spice up the third act, the fight between Anakin and Hondo was complete poodoo. Anakin would have destroyed Hondo and there is no way that fight would have been that even or that Hondo could have stood his group for that long. I think it's a shame that Lucas or whoever got that attached to the character that they, in essence, made Anakin look weak just to make Hondo look tough. Hondo is much better suited for trying to snake his way out of a situation than fight. What they should have done is thrown a bunch of distractions at Anakin as he fought Hondo so that he was unable to get a good clean shot at him, such as other pirates shooting at him or the tank lurching forward... basically things to keep him distracted so that the fight wasn't so even. I feel like they were trying to do this with the stupidmonkey-lizard in the tank, but it wasn't coming across well. And then the part when the monkey-lizard jumps on Anakin's face... I wanted Anakin so badly to toss it off him and slice it in half with his lightsaber.

I hope the next time we see Hondo is to kill him off, just for closure, otherwise I wouldn't care to see him again.


Oh, but the chemisty between Sugi and Obi-wan was nice. Obi-wan seems to like his women on the wrong side of the law, doesn't he?

 

I haven't seen Seven Samurai, so I'm not complaining about ripoffs or whatnot. For those saying Ahsoka's 'You don't have to look tough to be tough' line was horrible/childish, well, as someone who doesn't like her, I didn't mind it. It was actually a rather amusing moment seeing the puny guy inside. I agree it pretty much amounts to 'size matters not'.

What I didn't like was Ahsoka being Miss 'I'm Always Right' while Anakin and Obi-Wan were arguing, and the 'You always blame the ship!' line. But she was pretty minor in this episode, so it wasn't that bad.

 

One thing to keep in mind about Embo's amazing acrobatics is that he's an alien, he might have skills/jumping ability that a normal human does not. We really don't know much if anything about these Phatrong just yet.

It's basically the same exuse as for Lightsaber Lost, but its whats needed to help suspend disbelief for me.

 

I had a feeling someone would point that out, but I think there's a risk in over doing the whole "he's an alien, he can do whatever we want at any time." And if he consistently moved like through-out the episode, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it, but since he pretty much moves normal/human for the rest of the episode it felt off to me. Also, in Lightsaber Lost they pointed out that it was a species that could jump like that.

 

I only saw the second half. While they could easily be part of the whole Seven Samurai thing in general, it seemed as if the Shinto arch and the spear-twirling bit could also have been references to The Hidden Fortress.

(But then I thought: Star Wars rip off The Hidden Fortress?

Like that would ever happen.)

 

I dunno, he jump kicks the pirate off the Speeder. That had to take some leaping ability and timing. It's not really an issue of him doing whatever he wants, he does get wounded as well and needs to be saved by the Jedi *sigh*.

I think it could also be argued that he used the centrifical(sp?) force of the speeder to help his jump as well.

 

As if they knew it would be destroyed. Lame-o.

 

Drewton, you say you have misssed 18 episodes of this show, which is almost half, but then say oh why haven't they done this or that. Maybe they have and you have just missed it. Really, I think you should hold back on your critisicm so heavily until you have seen all the episodes so that you actually know what you are talking about.

 

Don't count on it. Instead I expect them to just say the show is bouncing around in the timeline until they themselves make a mistake, get confused, and the universe implodes.

 

Indeed. He will still be awesome though. Otherwise he would have been killed as it was meant.

 

I think this episode was interesting in that it showed a different bunch of Bounty Hunters from what we have seen. Sugi and her group, despite being bounty hunters, seemed like a decent and fair enough group of people - and Sugi showed a genuine care/worry for her team. I guess you could say this was a group of "good" bounty hunters. They are a real contrast from Cad Bane, Aurra Sing and the group used to hold the Senate hostage, where, along with being bounty hunters, they seemed like an unpleasant group of individuals too with a mean/nasty streak as well.

I'm glad they decided not to kill off Embo, which was originally the plan. Would be nice to see more of him in the future.

Also, Felucia looked AWESOME. If you compare how Felucia looked in this episode (production number: 219) compared to "Holocron Heist" (product number: 123) you can see a world of difference.

 

That's what really bugs me. The only reason they didn't use the Twilight is because they didn't want to destroy it. Well, that only makes sense out of universe, not in the context of the story. Of course it was possible, and recommended that Anakin use the Twilight for this mission. It's obviously better equipped than the shuttle, and if it's a scouting mission, a beat-up spice freighter would attract a lot less attention than a Jedi Ambassador Shuttle. And why couldn't the Twilight crash and be repaired, like it already has been before?

 

Before it looked like a Legend of Zelda screen.

 

Doctor Who isn't a kid's show. Sorry. Your evidence is invalid, and thus not evidence.

 

Are you a Traviss fan?

I really think you were misunderstanding Obi-Wan. I don't think he views the farmers with disdain. I think he's just trying to figure things out. He doesn't understand the economics of them being unable to pay off Hondo, but able to pay the BOUNTY HUNTERS (sorry folks, but that's what they are, even if they aren't hunting a bounty at this particular moment). I guess they are charging far less that Kenobi at first thinks.

Regarding him "refusing" to help. I wouldn't use so strong of a term. He explicitly says he wants to help them. But he's thinking long term. If they don't continue their mission, the CIS could show up and would treat the farmers worse than the pirates. So by trying to get on with his mission, he's really trying to help them. Yes, he's doing so in a more 'detatched' way, and even I wish he had been more eager to find a way to do both (help them short term and long term). But to say he isn't being kind-hearted is to either not understand his thinking, or to be disingenuous.

And who says he refuses to help them fight? There was nothing in the episode where he explicitly refuses to help. To the contrary, he talks strategy with them all, and Sugi in particular. He explicitly expresses concern that she is looking too much to her own monetary interests and not thinking of the farmers. To that end, he starts to suggest something, but she cuts him off.

And, I don't believe he berates the bounty hunters for their occupation (though he'd probably be within his rights to, as your typical bounty hunters are motivated by money and not compassion or honor). Again, he expresses concern that their profit-motive might get in the way of them doing their job.

 

Wedge Walker is making me quote myself.

I never said Obi-Wan has any disdain for the farmers, but he clearly does for the mercanaries/bounty hunters(but bounty hunters not seeking a bounty are mercanaries).

He does end up helping the farmers of course, but its because of Ahsoka and Anakin that he does, because there is no other path available to him(short of stealing the Merc ship)..

He would have been just as happy to barter passage with Hondo to get off planet. And if Obi-Wan thinks that Hondo would have then left the farmers alone, with the Jedi gone, he's more naive than even I think he is.

Why, does it matter if I am or if I'm not?

 

But you said this:

Why do you simply ignored what Obi-Wan said on the episode regarding not helping the farmers?

It would simply make your argument more justified.