Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 219: The Zillo Beast Strikes Back Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Palpatine still says all the right things about having a "moral obligation" to end the war more quickly, to save lives, etc.

He only really lets loose with Dr. Boll, IMHO.

 

Impenetrable armor? You know what ELSE is impenetrable (save for a small, unshielded thermal exhaust port)?
[image=http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/4500000/Death-Star-star-wars-4534240-1280-800.jpg]

I wonder... I mean, we know he was already planning the Death Star during the Clone Wars, so what if this ties into it somehow?

 

Well, the Death Star is not impenetrable as evidenced by explosions when the X-wings fire on the surface. I mean, I was hoping for the phase 2 armor to have some tie-in with the Zillo beast, though obviously it too is also not impenetrable as we see clones getting shot and the Jedi have no problem cutting them down with their lightsabers. And none of the ships in the CT are impenetrable as Sionver Boll (again, I think it was her) had ultimately hoped for.

Zillo Beast research could be responsible for advances in armor plating, though I think that it's clear that they'll never completely replicate the impenetrable armor of the Zillo, unless there is some failed super weapon akin to the Malevolence that appears in TCW and is destroyed.

 

Why can't we have a child who has not seen the movies (especially RotS) to ask about Palpatine. We of course see right through him and subtle hints, but it would be interesting to know if children have any suspencions of him. In this episode it was almost like Palpatine's mask slipped for a while, but more than say "This man is villain" it said "This man is more complex character than it would seem". After all, he had good arguments why they had to do things he said, and he's still more likeable than chairman Cho or dug leader. (When Boll asked if Palpatine still wanted to kill the beast, Palpatine sighed and said: "I wish there was an alternative") But good that they didn't use Sidious at any point, that would have been overkill of hints.
By the way, Palpatine's implied facepalm when Padmé asked if the beast had to be destroyed (when they were in escape shuttle) was priceless.

Moral of episode (Palpatine's view): If you are not right in the beginning, just press forward and you will be.

And I hope that Filoni and co. will put the viewers off the trail at some point (Sidious mocking Palpatine while talking to Grievous/Gunray and saying something like "he tries to pull strings his way but I am step ahead of him". And telling that Mas Amedda is in Sith's leash would be too great for my brain to handle, but this goes too much to wishing-list stuff)

 

That's actually something I would like to see. I mean, Palpatine thus far is like the Star Wars equivalent of Clark Kent. Only instead of taking off his glasses to become Superman, who nobody recognizes as being Clark Kent, we've got Palpatine who just puts on a hood and nobody asks questions.

Sidious makes claims that suggest he has a lot of influence (e.g. "I will make it legal). But it's never explained why people like Gunray would buy into that. Sidious didn't come through for the Trade Federation in TPM; their blockade remained illegal and they were apprehended by the Republic.

Palpatine is Chancellor and has been granted emergency powers. How does Sidious, maintaining the illusion that he is a different person, still argue that he has any power over what goes on? Does Gunray think that Sidious is bribing Palpatine?

It would be nice if Chancellor Palpatine says one things, Sidious assures one of the Separatist leaders that it won't be a problem, and then talks about Palpatine as though he were a different person.



As for kids that haven't seen ROTS, I don't know how long that lasts. I mean, Filoni has talked about how some of the people that work on TCW have kids that haven't seen the films, and when he plays games with them like asking them who they think are good guys and bad guys, that they associate Palpatine as being a good guy. But I can't imagine that kids out there who are first getting exposed to Star Wars through TCW get that far before their parents say, "hey, you know that show you love, well there are 6 movies about it too."

It seems like Lucas and Filoni want to keep it a secret that Palpatine is Sidious until ROTS, if you're watching it chronologically, but I can't imagine any kid watching all 4-5 seasons (assuming that's as far as the show goes) without watching the films. Yeah, it's a nice sentiment of keeping it a surprise, but I'd imagine those kids that are five years old now are going to realize that Palpatine is Sidious by the time the series concludes.

I think TCW can be bolder with Palpatine doing suspicious things. Obviously the Jedi are really cautious about him by the time ROTS rolls around, so I see no reason why Filoni and Lucas need to keep up the facade that he is a through and through good guy. They don't necessarily have to show him transition from Sidious to Palpatine in a single scene (that should still be left for ROTS, IMO), but they shouldn't be afraid to show Palpatine with a darker side doing questionable things. I think if the kids haven't become at least suspicious that he is Sidious after watching this episode, then chances are a lot of it is going to go over their heads anyway.

 

- When Palpatine talked to Boll about his secret plan for the dead beast, I thought we would get some cool connection to a pre-established item, like the scales being used for Phase II armour, or something that ressembled Vader's armour. Turns out Palpy wants to clone the beast. Hummm.. not sure what to think of that. Are we to expect some sort of Sith Abomination Zillo Beast in a future season of the show? What would be the point of such a thing? They kinda have to follow through on this plan, though, as it was very clearly established as something we will eventually see.


I don't think a connection to any existing technology was very likely due to it's essential non-indestructibility. I also don't necessarily think that Palpatine wanting to clone the beast points to the creature returning later on - specifically because it has been so explicitly telegraphed.

I feel it was just said to show that Palpatine is still scheming and willing to continue with researching the Zillo, even recreate it, despite the obvious danger and the objections of the Jedi and Senators. It shows that he has not been scared off by his experiences or the destruction wrought by the beast and if anything it's shown him how useful it could be.

His cloning plan definitely isn't the sort of thing that needs to have any sort of pay-off in the show though. It seems more like something that demonstrates his character rather than hinting at a Son of Zillo Beast episode.

 

Completely agree that the mention of cloning was there only to show how devious Palps is, always thinking ahead.

I would be shocked and appalled if we ever got "Son of Zillo Beast" down the line.

 

I wouldn't want to see the Zillo again, but I'm a sucker for easter eggs and other hidden things.

Maybe down the road in season 4, there could be a scene where Anakin walks into Palpatine's office and there could be a little hologram transmission with Dr. Boll that he turns off. Stuff like that. People that remember these episodes will recognize Boll and understand the implication that she's probably continuing her work on the Zillo beast, even though there wouldn't be a single line of dialog referencing the beast, and we wouldn't see it.

I think the Zillo Beast should warrant some future mention/nod; but no, I wouldn't want to see a future monster episode featuring a cloned Zillo Beast.

As an aside related to hidden things:

In the movie Alien (at least the Quadrilogy DVD which incorporated cut footage) there's the sequence where the character of Brett is looking for a cat. He stops for a moment, looks up at pipes and chains hanging from the ceiling, letting water run down on his face. When the camera shows things from his perspective you can see the alien curled up, motionless, hanging among the chains. Someone familiar with what the alien looks like - and looking for it - can spot it, clear as day. But someone seeing it for the first time would overlook it. It gets overlooked by the character and can easily be overlooked by a viewer seeing it for the first time, not knowing what they're looking for. Or a similar thing happens in E.T. when Elliot's mother opens the closet and overlooks E.T. who is motionless amongst a bunch of stuffed animals.

In Grievous Intrigue, when Plo Koon says that they've spotted a hidden message in Grievous' transmission, we then are shown Eeth Koth's hand signals. When I re-watch the episode I noticed that it never shows Koth in the transmission until Plo Koon says to play it back. I think it would have been cooler if it actually showed the whole transmission, such that the shot would be set up such that Anakin, Obi-Wan, or Grievous would attract the viewers' focus towards them, but that you could see Koth's hand signals if you were to look for them. The characters overlooked it in the context of the story, but the audience couldn't see it because it was left off camera.

Missed opportunity.

 

Yeah, I didn't mean that he revealed himself to be a villain to the other characters, only that he clearly did so to the audience this time.

 

We all know how that is going to end.

 

About the Death Star in TCW, Palpatine did have a DS hologram in the TCW Lego Star Destroyer set...

 

Star Wars Lego is non-canon. But, we know that Palpatine does have the Death Star "hologram" that he received from Dooku (AOTC). At any time during the Clone Wars, he could begin construction. We know that the Geonosians have had a part with the construction, as Geonosis has supplies needed, before the project relocated elsewhere.

 

Just watched the episode. Very enjoyable. It was one half political-intrigue-and-sweet-dialogue and one half holy-krif-look-at-that-giant-monster.

I really liked the dialogue here (well, exposition is still exposition, but THAT ASIDE!), especially Mace, Obi-Wan and Rex discussing Anakin's 'plan'. The little intrigues and arguments were sweet for those who were watching for them.

The action was awesome, as it gave a sense of helplessness to just about everything involved until the very end.

Yoda and Aayla doing acrobatics was neat, but yeah, pretty much a waste of the characters.

The Zillo Beast was probably one of the best creatures I've seen so far in how it was used, from its sounds to its rampage, and even its death. Loved the lighting on it.

Poor Dr. Boll, you can't help but feel sorry for her too.

I should really get to making a Stuff-We'll-Never-See Zillo Beast edition depicting the Holonet News Network crew.

 

I was hoping that the Zillo Beast's indestructibility was something that went away after it died - maybe a self generated field that reinforces its scales. And that killing it ultimately meant that they lost access to this technology.

 

Actually I remember when I first saw teh prequel trilogy (hadn't seen teh orignal) I realized that Sidious was Palpatine when I saw him in attack of the clones when Sidious meets with Dooku due to the similarities in facial structure. Basically they looked the same from the sides.
And I also read in the DK Episode III encyclopedia that Mace suspected (deep down) Palpatine was evil,and might even be Sith. Thats why he didn't bother double checking when he went to attack Sidious. He just WENT. Now we know why he suspected. hints were comming.

 

It was an alright episode... somehow I had hoped the Jedi would come up with some brilliant idea to save the monster after all. I was sad to see it die... but I guess it was to be expected, it being a homage to classic monster movies.

I don't think we'll see the 'Son of Zillo Beast' either, I think the cloning thing was there partly to give Palpatine some depth, but also for the monster to 'live on' in some way and not be the last of its kind after all.

I half expected Palpatine to arrange for some tragic accident happening to the scientist, so she couldn't reveal how it was the chancellor who was responsible for its escape by pressing for killing the creature off with the toxic gas.

 

Does anyone else think Palpatine's escape shuttle looks like Grievous' shuttle from the final chapter of the Clone Wars micro-series?

Also, did anyone else notice how the Jedi and the gunships landed before Palpatine told Dr. Boll to supply the ships with the toxin? Because at the end the gunships are magically loaded with the toxin that was ordered after they landed.

 

It reminded me of Kyle Katarn's Moldy Crow and Raven's Claw.

 

I'm not sure if this was posted yet, but why didn't Palpatine examine the creature after it died? He just had it cloned and taken away. Isn't that king of a dumb thing to do after all he went through to see that is was killed?

 

Who's to say he didn't have it taken somewhere to be examined? I mean, yeah, anybody would still want it examined, but it seems like a public thoroughfare is no place to conduct such business. Why cordon the place off when they already have ready-made scientific facilities? I don't recall them saying they were disposing of the body, and even if they did, how would they do it? Dump it on Mustafar?

 

Yeah, I don't think we're supposed to assume Palpatine won't be studying the body - after all, they needed to kill the beast to look at the scales.

 

Great animation on this one.

Did Padme call Mas Amedda "Mr Speaker?" What was that about?

Speaking of Mas Amedda, his clothing looks an awful lot like the emperor's royal guard battle dress.

Loved the dude doing the backflip over the table trying to get away from zillo.

The gunships fire blue lasers now?


Anyway, jaw droppingly beautiful episode. If this is what artistic level we are at in Season two, seasons three and four will be nothing short of siezure inducing.

 

Hope this helps: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vice_Chairman

 

I liked how zillo knew that palps was a bad man..
cant wait for the new episode

 

I also noted that as I kind of expected, Dr. Boll turned out to be one of those all-purpose scientists who has an impressive range of skills. She can design the electro-proton bomb to be used against droids, study a previously unknown creature to determine the military applications of its abilities and quickly weaponise fuel from Malastare to kill the beast. Palpatine should have got her on the Death Star team and it might have been built quicker. ("So tell me Doctor, how are you on giant lasers?")