Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 318: The Citadel Discussion Thread

Oh, I agree that they're flaws, although the show doesn't usually treat them as such (I can understand Obi-Wan keeping his cool, but I'm surprised that Anakin wasn't more irritated with her). And I understand your perspective on why the Council sent Ahsoka to Anakin. However, it often does feel like they took Anakin's personality to Kamino and stuck it in the body of a Togruta teenager. And I find that very annoying.

 

I thought it was great that they're making Anakin's blatant inability to let her go an ongoing aspect of the series. Plo Koon's reaction to Ahsoka explaining her side of it to him seems significant, and I hope it becomes the subject of dialogue in future episodes. I'm also a fan of Obi-Wan chiding Anakin for not having the patience to put up with the very same things he did as a Padawan. These are aspects and expressions of the characters' personalities and how they relate to one another, I think it'd be less realistic if these things didn't recur in differing scenarios.

 

The Ahsoka show? I think not.

It's like you're saying they're the only Jedi the Jedi Order has. They have a lot of different characters they used in the past. It doesn't have to be the same Jedi every time for every single story arc or individual standalone episodes we receive.

The one flaw I actually see is that Ahsoka shouldn't say Anakin taught her to not listen, because while she may have picked up his habits, that makes her look completely stupid. She's a mini Anakin then. She cannot think straight or even respect her own master and has to whine about her not being able to go along with the mission. She's a tagalong because she wasn't invited and that she simply served no point with the story to begin with. Ahsoka was not needed.

 

Why didn't the magnet lift the clones up with Anakin?

 

@GG

If Ahsoka wasn't in this episode at all, there would have been no beginning to the story, and much more importantly we'd be short one example of Anakin's attachment issues, which I always love to see in The Clone Wars. It seems from the conversation between Ahsoka and Plo Koon that this may be developed even more in the future, which I'm all in favor of. I love the episodic nature of this series and how it can have different characters in each episode for a bunch in a row, but I also love the recurring central themes it touches on regarding the relationship between Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka. I think it brings a certain continuity to the series that would otherwise be missing given its episodic nature, in addition to solidly building on foundations laid in Ep. II and Ep. III.

 

My $0.02:

? I HATE the Trandoshan's voice.

? Tarkin is awesome. Everything about him reminds me of the live action character.

? So, "Even" is pronounced like "Evan."

? What's so different about the new droid commandos...?

? I love that we're seeing more clones with Phase II armor!

? Not the best episode, but I'm excited for next week.

 

Their armour is obviously not metal. Probably some form of strong, light-weight plastic.

 

Phindian's voice.

 

No, let me clarify. I said before Ahsoka is fine in the beginning and Anakin telling her to stay. She's fine there. What I didn't like was her to be involved with the episode's story of rescuing Piell. Hope that makes sense.

 

I don?t quite understand why not. Firstly it demonstrates a directly correlation to Anakin?s brashness as a Padawan (and to some extent as a Knight) and Ashoka?s. Secondly it shows Ahsoka questioning her master just as Anakin did to Obi-Wan? as such when they get older and gain more confidence they begin to question their master more and more? this is a direct result of Anakin?s training and traits. Thirdly it also demonstrates how Anakin?s over-protectiveness can sometimes be a hindrance, as seen when Ahsoka actually ?saves the day?? it also seems to highlight a flaw in Anakin?s teachings when Plo and Obi-Wan seem to approve of Ahsoka being there.

 

Anybody else get a Joker in the video game Arkham Asylum vibe from the prison warden? Large smile on his face, a purple and green droid assisting him and tons of cameras overseeing the facility.

 

1. Did I say she was the main character? No, I said she was a main character on the same level as Skywalker and Kenobi. So generally when those two are in an episode, Ahsoka is usually going to be there.

2. You can say the same for Obi-Wan and Anakin, but you don't complain about them because you like them. And that is really the core of the issue, it is the fact that you don't like Ahsoka, not that she wasn't needed. Since you don't care for her, you are always going to look for reasons to nitpick when she appears in an episode. Like I said, there are plenty of episodes where Ahsoka did not belong (A few of the political episodes from earlier in the season for example....), but this episode just wasn't the case.

3. Why not? Ahsoka is merely pointing out that she is picking up Skywalkers traits.

 

Question.. why didn't Anakin or Obi-wan force lift "Charger" when he fell? THAT would have saved them losta time..

 

You should read what I've said about the "same Jedi" again.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. Appreciate it. I never said I dislike Ahsoka, I just don't like it when she's thrown into an episode and basically is forced into the main story of the episode for the sake of showing her. To me, that's exactly what I felt when I watched the episode. Her being in the beginning was fine, her being involved with the main storyline was not.

And...this is new? Plus for her to be saying/showing this at this point in time? At this point in their relationship, don't you think they would know each other well by now. They say Ahsoka is maturing, but really she feels the same to me. For her to be saying "Anakin doesn't want me with him during the mission" at this point is odd. Wrong placement, bad timing. I would have liked it sooo much better if they waited until season four to use these new character models. Shoving/implementing them half way in season three was stupid.

To me, Ahsoka came off as a brat.

 

Ah, sorry about that! I missed that. I thought her being the only one who could fit in the vent was cool, almost as if it was the will of the Force for her to go along and help with the mission and force Anakin to confront is inability to let go of her. Maybe that's just my own hair-brained thought. Other than that I don't remember her doing much else, but I am about to rewatch.

 

Mom said no. So she went to Dad. It made both Plo Koon and Ahsoka look bad to be honest. If she had tried that with Mace or Yoda she'd be put in her place immediately. Any other member of the council or even another master like Luminara or Aayla would have shot her down. Obi-Wan included.

Loved Even Piell and Tarkin. Loved the clones. Best line was definitely Obi-Wan's remark about "Anakin's teaching method is Do as I say not as I do"

The villian's voice was awkward but not terrible. I enjoyed Artoo having a vital role and the droids weren't terrible. I disagree with GGrievous though. I like seeing Threepio every so often. And because he's R2's friend and Anakin's his maker, I can accept Threepio being there for military planning. Perhaps they needed someone who could speak Ugnaught?

 

His voice was pretty bad. If they were gonna flirt with Walken's voice, they should have just gone all the way with it (ala Ziro and Capote).

I also assumed Piell's first name was pronounced "eve-en". Feels more alien that way. Ah well.

I could have lived without Tarkin, but he's got the shifty eyes going in this episode, so I'm sure he'll be more of a presence in the next two.

I don't like the idea of a Jedi prison. It works in a "what if the order turned on the galaxy" type scenario, but it seems like it's chipping away at the notion that the occurrence of rogue/dark Jedi is extremely rare.

Ahsoka pissed me off. I know she's still just a kid, but her bitching made it sound like she doesn't understand the master/teacher relationship at all, which is at the core of the Jedi Order. I get it that she's anxious, but she came off as dumb here.

Also looks like Shipyards of Doom has been ejected from canon, which is a shame, because it was a good comic and would have made for a great couple episodes (they better not screw with Slaves of the Republic!)

Oh, and don't get too excited; no new episodes until week after next!

 

Sadly that wasn't shown. C-3PO just walked away.

 

1. Then why didn't your original post harp on Anakin and Obi-Wan's appearance in this episode? The only character you went after was Ahsoka.

2. I am not trying to put words in your mouth...... but in your other post after I asked why you weren't holding Kenobi and Skywalker to the same standard in terms of too many appearances. "I don't have much of a problem if it's just Obi-Wan and Anakin, because I like them together". Besides, for as long as I been here you have also had a negative attitude towards Ahsoka, I doubt I am the only one who feels you dislike her.

3. They also said prior to the start of season 3 that Ahsoka was more and more becoming like Anakin, so no it wasn't bad placement or wrong timing.

 

I don't think Plo Koon actually told her to do that. I got the impression that that was just Ahsoka's excuse, because I didn't remember hearing him say that. Well, I'm about to rewatch, so I guess I'll find out!

 

She wasn't needed for the story.

It is a bad placement. If you see what I meant in my other post, at this point in time, Ahsoka is apparently older. Don't you think her relationship with Anakin should be stronger and the way Ahsoka acts and behaves should be at her own age? To me, she acts the same. I see no difference. I've said this in the past, using these new character models at this time is a bad idea. They should have waited until season four, and not implementing them half way within season three. They should have expanded on Ahsoka's character while she was younger, not when she's a year or somewhat older than before. She's a brat for life then? That's what I see.

This goes to my next point, Anakin wasn't at the Jedi Temple at a young age. He was there when he was nine, Ahsoka was three. She grew up there, Anakin didn't. She most likely learned a great deal about how Jedi behave and act while growing up before becoming a Padawan, Anakin became a Padawan after he was inducted into the Jedi Order. There's differences there. Since the get-go, Ahsoka has been this annoying little brat and matured a bit (her nicknames are gone), but other than that, she acts the same. She doesn't grow up and only mirrors how Anakin acts, which isn't fully right. It makes sense that she picks up habits because she's her master, but she shouldn't be a complete mini Anakin. There's no reason for it, given the examples I just said. New character model or not, she's the same Ahsoka. I see it, if you don't see it fine. But her character could be so much better.

For her to be in the Citadel was fine, her appearance. For her to say the things she told Plo Koon seemed odd, given the point on the timeline they are in. For her to be apart in the episode's main story line was not fine.

 

I'm sure the character of Ahsoka will have evolved in more ways than just the dropping of the annoying "Sky-Guy" thing before this series is ever, and I'm equally sure it will take Ahsoka as long to grow out of her Anakin-esque shortcomings as it did for Anakin (the ones he actually did outgrow, that is).

 

Bloody fantastic episode as all have been. I loved all the homage to classic Star Wars. The security cameras, cell blocks, carbonite, etc. Seeing Tarkin and Anakin standing next to eachother was grand, long before they even knew of who and what they would become.

One thing: Ahsoka was upset she could not go along. I could have kept her occupied....

 

I actually felt the inclusion of Ahsoka helped this episode; without the interplay between Anakin and Ahsoka, with Plo undermining Anakin's authority (and thus further driving a wedge between the Chosen One and the Jedi Council) and Obi-Wan smugly pointing out Anakin's a giant hypocrite on the issue of following orders as WELL as having the whole thing spotlighting Anakin's attachment issues with her for the first time since Landing at Point Rain, IIRC... this episode would have been a whole lot weaker, IMHO. Really, I find it brilliant- especially the part where Master Plo totally undermines Anakin's authority as Ahsoka's Master. One more thing that makes his sudden distrust of the Jedi in ROTS, and feeling they don't respect him and are holding him back and all that, make a whole lot more sense- because he's now got a long, long series of such incidents to play connect-the-dots with.

Tarkin's first line... oh, my... that first line sounded EXACTLY like Peter Cushing. Literally. Sounded like they'd lifted dialogue from ANH or something, or conjured Cushing's ghost to do that first line. The rest of his dialogue was a little bit farther off, but I can't fault the voice actor. Nailing Tarkin's voice is not an easy task, and getting one line FLAWLESSLY in Cushing's Tarkin voice, and the rest STILL on the level of the more decent actor approximations on the show, is something I have GOT to give props for.

The Seppie commander who runs the Citadel... definitely one of the better Separatists in the series. IMHO, the dude's becoming a bit unhinged due to prolonged isolation with nothing to do but talk to droids and watch prisoners be tortured. He keeps muttering to himself, as if he needs to hear SOMEone talk beside a droid or he'll go COMPLETELY bananas, and the bit where he orders the one droid shot because it DARED to utter the word 'escape'... yeah. The guy's thrown himself into his work because it's the only thing keeping the cabin fever from driving him totally, gleefully off the deep end.

He's got just the right mix of psychotic insanity and dangerous, methodical sanity to make a memorable villain, and I hope he's not confined to this one arc.

Even Piell... yeah, for some reason, I always imagined him with a Russian accent, so it didn't surprise me at all. And he's very much like what I recall his EU counterpart being like, so overall, I have no problem with TCW's take on Master Piell.

I felt a bit of hope for the canon status of Shipyards of Doom when Anakin said "I have an idea about that" with a smug smile, as if he's using a tried but true method he DIDN'T just pull out of his hind end... only for it to be dashed, like, thirty seconds later with the absolute and unnecessary Anakin and Rex have never been frozen before thing. They could have left that line out, and it would have remained just ambiguous enough to allow them to say this is the first time, but giving the retconners a little wiggle room to still make SoD still work. *sigh*

All in all, though, one of my favorite episodes in the series thus far.

 

Haha thanks for reminding me, when I saw the same security camera from Ep. IV I totally nerded out.