Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 407: Darkness On Umbara Discussion Thread

The war changed that.

 

Well we don't know if he needed that for breathing- he is petrified for sure but hey everyone is if you lose a fist fight to an armed clone trooper Humans were able to breathe there...so maybe we hear explanation to this oddity later in the arc- gas may have some other purpose.... guy was possibly asking for mercy and Fives just shot him- wow he could be a bad*ss stormtrooper.

Umbarese sounds a little bit like italian or something (Well Mee Deechi/Medici) or spanish since it was spoken very fast-or I dunno... but it was original to have alien tongue for once not only accents....

 

The way I took the calling Anakin back was a plan from Palpatine to get the clones against the jedi and their way of thinking. The Jedi are supposed to be all good, loving everyone etc but somehow he gets pretty much everyone to agree that Order 66 was a good thing. This just reinforce it. He knows how good Anakin is to his men, he probably timed him calling Anakin back so that Krell is the first choice as a replacement. He probably knows that Krell is one of those "I'm superior, I'm a Jedi" so he is going to treat Anakin's men, who are used to respect from Anakin, like they are worthless. In the end it puts a bad impression in the clones minds about the Jedi and Anakin and a few others become the exception. Order 66 comes, everyone will see it as justice long due coming and with Anakin joining Palpatine, no one would think twice. "The one who treated clones like they were living being is joining the other side? yep I'd go with him versus the ones who treated them like dirt"

 

BTW who says Barriss is still a Padawan?

 

At this point, I have no clue what TCW is doing. Their constant contradicting of canon is making all this hard to follow.

 

Soooo.....just for the hell of it... Karen Traviss was RIGHT about some of the Jedi!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHA all you haters!!!! The jedi were heartless petty people >=) We've just met one (too late to change your 9/10 rating)!!

Loved this episode, good fight scenes, Fives FINALLY showing why he was promoted to ARC. More Rex character development. Let's hope they can keep this up for the rest of the season (NO MORE R2 and 3PO or...jar jar).

 

Some of it is contradicting of canon (ARC's and the Mandalorians are the only two I've had a serious problem with) but mostly it's because they keep jumping around timeline wise. Some episodes are near the beginning of the war some episodes are prequels to other episodes that were shown first, etc.

 

^Hint: be careful with double posts- you can change your post few minutes after posting it so do that instead

About TCW- yeah you can never know what they come up with.... but that is also bit more interesting while sometimes they scrap canon too much- so it has two sides really and what is "too much" is depending from a POV of course....


Krell threatening Fives was a powerful scene- but Krell didn't slice Fives so he is not totally crazy and twisted but definitely a grey jedi or almost a dark jedi while still being part of the order- where he comes from and why he is like that- we may never learn that I surely would like to.... he is an interesting character for sure....

 

I actually kinda do want Krell to kill one of them before the arcs over just to see the outcome.

 

I dunno it is bit overkill that way maybe... but Fives was awesome there "Sir yes sir" he finally gets some character development in this...

Now I know- when Krell adopted Anakin's clones maybe he also adopts his padawan- and after this snippy padawan has first argument with her new master .... ouch

 

^I thought about that, Krell as Ahsoka's new Master. Brilliant!

 

One more answer for the "What should Ahsoka's fate be?" thread:

Krell'd.

 

[image=http://i42.tinypic.com/ofdqc0.jpg]
That split second shot was the highlight of the episode.
Ok, just kidding.

Great episode. I really liked Krell. However, his double arms seem redundant. I cannot see how they'd be of any use, unless they are good as spares if an arm should get cut off...
His lightsabers seems dual bladed on both sides along with being double-bladed.

I did not like how Krell seemed to vanish whenever the fighting got tough. Pretty convenient. Is he too busy leading his own squad?

They don't explain why the Umbarans have sided with the Separatists, or why Palpatine calls back Anakin to Coruscant, but do we really need to have everything explained?

What a smart young lady! Let her know that Ahsoka will be along soon enough in a big way!

 

I seriously hope Ahsoka doesn't show up later in the arc.

 

Yeah, my niece is 3. She doesn't know what she is talking about.

 

Just remembered... was there seriously a clone named "Ringo"? Everyone picks on Ringo Starr

 

Mine is:

[image=http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2281/screen2011102918h07m50s.png]

 

That was my first thought when I heard the premise of this arc. But after more thought, I don't think so anymore. the reason: Krell is too bad. He's exceptionally flippant about the lives of the clones. Look at Yoda, Plo Koon, Aayla Secura. Kriff, even Mace Windu risks his life to save a poor clone driver before retreating himself.

The clones aren't stupid enough to hate on the Jedi at large because Krell is so bad***.

But that's just it - there are many more exceptions. Bly and Cody turned on their respective Jedi officers. And say what you will, Kenobi and Secure are no Pong Krell.

Not necessary, if Order 66 is so well programmed into the clones, the moment it's called out they feel a reflexive "urge" to turn and shoot. A Contingency order would be of such high precedence, there would be no need to convince the clones that it's a "good idea".

I think Krell's role for the clones is going to be forcing them to come to grips with the idea that orders are not everything. Rex and Fives in particular seem to be being set up for another confrontation with Krell. And I have a feeling it's going to lead into that moment in the trailed ("Some day, this war's gonna end.").

But we'll have to see.

 

Ok so this is one of the best episodes ever. Definitely amazing, probably like top 5 episodes of the entire series so far. Everything about it was just epic. The new Fives and Rex models were sweet, I'm definitely considering buying figures of those two and I don't even collect at all.

This arc has promise to be the best arc in the entire series and it won't even feature Anakin or Ahsoka. I dunno what that says about the writing of the show, but I guess the series is called the clone wars and I'm happy to see the clones get the spotlight again.

When they kept hyping up the battle scenes for this season I was expecting something amazing. The Mon Cal arc battles were great but it didn't really wow me since the underwater environment kind of made it less frenetic and slow paced. This episode basically made good on all those promises though and it seems like the next episode will be just as action packed.

 

OK I suppose I can post my thoughts now. I would have done this a lot earlier today (about 12 hours ago as of when I post this), but I've been having way too much fun on Crysis 2 and Arkham City.

Very pleased with this episode, overall. It wasn't perfect, but then nothing really is, is it? But it was very enjoyable, from the chatter of the clones to General Krell. Yes, I like him now. Or at least, I like the personality they tacked onto him. In fact, I think Krell was the highlight of the episode for me. Definitely my kind of leader. If Krell played Starcraft, he'd be the Zerg every time. He throws his troops around like Torfan; victory at all costs, no matter how many lives are sacrificed. I'm calling him the Butcher of Umbara. He reminds me of a certain captain who also likes to send wave after wave of his own men into the enemy. Wonder if his Jedi robes are also made of velour? OK but seriously, me gusta. Shame his awesome mind has to be trapped in such a ludicrous, OTT body. I also approve of the casting - Mass Effect 2 fans will recognise Dave Fennoy's voice as the Warlord Okeer and disgraced acting captain of the Hugo Gernsback Ronald Taylor, both of which approach situations in the same way as Krell. The synergy is truly inspiring and I applaud the crew for that.

I can see why his tactics can be considered bold or reckless, but at the end of the day, they needed to get to the capital city and take it as quickly as possible in order to ensure victory. That involves taking risks. Soldiers are expendable in service to the overall objective. If it takes a hundred deaths to save the lives of thousands by taking the capital swiftly, then by all means go for it. Surgical strikes, while relatively safe, take time to set up, time that the writers make clear they don't have. What also needs to be remembered is that Krell's tactics were written as such, because the writers are specifically trying to turn the audience against him and encourage sympathy for the clones. Additionally, one has to remember that Rex's platoon was told to take point in the assault and bare the brunt of the enemy fire. So of course casualties are going to be high if they're going in first and testing the water. Once the frontline troops give a sitrep, then the rest can advance with little difficulty. I also inferred from his shakedown talk afterwards that Krell was using this as an opportunity to test Rex's leadership and combat abilities; a sort of "put your money where your mouth is" deal, considering how Rex was constantly second-guessing him. So all in all, harsh but defendable.

Other things worth mentioning about this one include the setting; I really liked what they did with Umbara. It looks truly sinister and it totally befits all its 'Shadow' taglines. The bioluminescence I'm sure can be explained away as mostly making it look more sci-fi, but I'm sure it also serves a valuable purpose in such a gloomy environment. The wildlife I also felt was imaginative and did a good job of selling the hostile conditions the clones were facing. I particularly enjoyed the Vixus sequence and Fives showing his worth with the thermal detonator. I'm grateful that they successfully portrayed him as an elite trooper so that I can believe he deserves to be an ARC after all. I liked seeing Jesse, Kix and Hardcase make their return as well, and the new clones Tup and Dogma are also likeable in their own ways.

I won't waste time on the negatives as they've been covered enough. So I will end by saying, thank the Goddess they actually pulled it out of the hat and finally gave us another episode worth showcasing. Glad I don't have to eat my own words.

 

AWESOME EPISODE! Not since the Mortis Arc have I been that interested in TCW.

To me, this episode has no flaws. It was an excellent viewing start to finish. And just for the record, I am not someone who needs non-stop action and adult violence in TCW to the level this episode delivered, but here it felt really fitting establishing the hostile mood of not only the planet, but the Clone Wars in general. And so did the use of various creatures. Really enjoyed Krell's portrayal as well. And being able to read Rex's emotions through his mask while being demoted by his new master.

Good job GL, Filoni, Lee and Michnovetz!

 

Costs too much $ to make a hoodless Barriss model!

You didn't read the fine print before signing up to this site? It's all or nothing. If there's a flaw, it's worth harping over till your last dying breath.

Definitely agree on this -- when TCW can be imaginative designing planets, it really shines. I especially liked how the environment always seemed to have something dangerous lurking behind every corner. Although it does seem odd the clones didn't appear to have a lot of intel on Umbara beforehand, especially with it being a former Republic planet and all.

 

I think its kinda like taking a battle into the rainforest. Everyone is going to tell you to look out for the Jaguars, the crocs, and the anacondas when it comes to the animals. But someone might forget to mention the fer-de-lance or the bullet ant.

 

I'd just like to mention how "normal" Krell's brusque demeanor toward the clones really is.

I mean, did Krell really treat his soldiers any different than Generals usually do? Was it any different than standard military protocol in times of war? Was his treatment of them any harsher than Bric from Clone Cadets?

The clones are not a bunch of bros playing laser tag. They're soldiers, in the Grand Army of the Republic, fighting a massive war. They were bred for this, they've been following orders their whole lives.

I wouldn't be at all surprised or "outraged" if General treated his soldiers the same way here on Earth.

Krell's behavior really wasn't that bad, in fact it seemed to me like the military way of doing things. Courtesy, tact and all that is often inefficient in moments when you don't have time to waste, and soldiers just have to deal with it. It is what they are trained for, after all. You learn this stuff in basic training.