Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 410: Carnage of Krell Discussion Thread

Even if the order was not ingrained, remember that there are a handful of clones (well, so the EU says anyway) who did not follow it. I think it's more accurate to state that Order 66 is pre-programmed on a very deep level (though the text is clear enough so that the clones will probably at least be aware of it consciously, just never expecting to use it), but that the programming makes them highly 'biased' to following an order, not absolutely mindless about it (and the programming can fail at times). The 4 parter itself had them asking Rex if "that's what he believed, or just what he was programmed to believe", meaning that the clones are indeed programmed, but they are still also the sum of their experiences. The programming they recieved is probably a form of mental conditioning, but it is NOT an outright automated robotic obedience. Order 66, however, is probably one of the deepest of all sub-conscious orders, and Order 66 'as written' makes enough sense that it actually can become clear why many clones (with a programming bias towards it, not to mention) do follow it, even when they have the potential to defy it.

If anything, I worry that the clones taking down Krell will cause too much suspicion among the Jedi, not the other way around. Sure, the clones have a clear argument, but the supposedly obedient army just decided to take down one of their own, on their own accord. Does this not seem like a reason for concern and suspicion? Palpatine would be ecstatic, surely offering Rex or whoever did it a full pardon and taking THEIR side of the story even when (if?) the council doesn't like that. Fortunately, even a hint as obvious as that can be ignored since we know the Jedi have been blinded to their circumstances for years before the Empire comes about.

 

Agreed. And I'd add that, as I said earlier, we don't know enough yet to draw conclusions... meaning it's hard to see if this will be tied to a rift or hints at how the clones will view Order 66 until we see how the Jedi in general react to what Krell has done and intends to do. If they stand by silently and Krell has Fives and Jesse executed, I could see that changing a lot... both in terms of the clones' view of the Jedi and also in terms of Anakin's relationship with the other Jedi too (he's the only one I am sure would not be silent about this).

One other note... it really is hard to predict how this will shake out, but if Fives and Jesse, or Fives and Rex, etc. actually kill Krell (a Jedi general) they will surely be up for execution unless there are some serious extenuating circumstances.

 

Circumstances which I'm sure Palpatine would be more than willing to step in and allow... ESPECIALLY if it concerns Rex, Anakin's favorite clone.

 

^ Good point.

 

+1

 

Also I don't see the Jedi executing any of the clones, it's obvious Krell has "lost his way" and that's why it's so easy for him to give that order. They might court marshal them but not execute them.

Also with it dealing with Rex, Anakin and Palpatine like you said will be there to back him(and Fives or Jesse).

 

I find it hard to think of any plausible scenario unless it all ends in a bit of an anti-climax where Anakin and Obi-Wan show up, Krell is arrested and the clones will get a fair trial.

However, it seems like he wants to go through with the execution without even having a court martial. So I'm thinking things will probably get out of hand.

So much build-up! This had better deliver.

 

agreed

 

Fives: You tried to execute me!
Krell: I realize now I should have given you a fair trial, but you started it when you disobeyed my orders!

 

Fives: I'm not a defective soldier! I want justice!
Krell: We are justice.

 

I just hope they don't get lazy & take the easy route: oh Krell is a traitor working for Dooku.

 

^ Rather, Krell is Dooku's replacement Sith-wanna-be replacing Asajj and Savage. Then Darth Maul will show up and Krell and Maul will fight to the death...I mean fake death.

 

I don't see it happening like that. I know it's a thought in the back of our minds but I see it that Krell just lost it because of the war, in a sense he pulled a Nahdar Vebb. Much worse but same type of concept if you know what I mean.

 

This ending had better deliver. This week is really sucking and lame as it is I'm taking this episode to be a silver lining.

What's interesting is the scenes of Krell deflecting red blaster bolts instead of the green Umbaran's shoot and blue like the clones shoot. Isn't red typically battle droids isn't it? Krell isn't going to be working for the CIS, I'm feeling positive.

 

I just want this 4 parter episode thing to end already. Rex and his clones keep getting outnumbered and Krell talks down to the clones all the time.

Anakin and Obi Wan need to come and save the day and just challenge Krell to a duel

 

[image=http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsjc96NSR91qg9znn.jpg]

You called?

 

Yup. I know exactly how you feel.

 

Until you posted that it never clicked in my mind that that scene was a god in a machine moment in the most literal sense of the words.

 

I feel so left out... who the heck is that guy? Someone explain the joke to me.

 

looks like the complete prong that's playing dr who at the moment but don't get the reference as can't abide it


Anyhoooo , in regards to Palpatine pardoning them , yeah privately he'd be pleased at the clones turning on the Jedi, but surely he'd pretend to have his hands tied by protocol and thus allow the executions of Anakins favourites in order to further increase his anger towards the Jedi.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. =(

I kinda know how Fives and Jesse feel. I feel like I'm awaiting execution without trial at work right now. Might as well be an execution. Without my job I'm sunk.

 

Sad to hear that - I'm fortunate enough to have a fairly secure job at the moment, but I feel more like the exception that proves the rule, every day. I wish you the best.

Hmm... I don't think so. Palpatine does not want the clones to be turning on the Jedi at this point, for a few reasons.

One, clones showing rebellious or insubordinate tendencies is a threat not only to Palpatine's plans for Order 66, but also his future Stormtrooper corp. Palpatine needs the clones to be loyal to whoever their superior is, Jedi or otherwise. Any insubordination or strains of independence threatens his plans.

Two, clones harboring anti-Jedi sentiments would be a red flag for the Jedi themselves. Jedi are perceptive by nature - yes, the dark side clouds everything, but it's not going to inhibit an individual Jedi's ability to "feel" the emotions and sentiments among men they spend every day with. Again, Palpatine wants the clones to be impeccably loyal - yes, even to the Jedi - so that he knows he can count on them to carry out Order 66.

A third reason, similar to the above - clone vs Jedi conflict is not Palpatine's goal. He doesn't want the clones to turn on the Jedi because "they don't like them." He wants the clones to turn on the Jedi because he orders them to. It's not in Palpatine's best interest to have the clones execute Order 66 for their own benefit - after all, Palpatine's not going to be treating his Stormtroopers with any more respect than Krell is doing.

I'm not going to be dogmatic on the implications of the Umbaran campaign for Order 66, but I am certain that the Umbaran clone developments are not what Palpatine wants, in any way. If the Chancellor had his way, not only Fives and Jesse would be executed, but Rex, Tup and even Dogma would be marked for termination - he can't risk any strains of independence or freethinking among his future Stormtroopers.

 

Sucks, Seerow.

They are certainly hyping this.

I can say without an ounce of hyperbole that this will either be the greatest TCW episode of all time or the worst TCW episode of all time.


Nah, it certainly won't be the worst, I'm just not sure they'll take it where it needs to go to make it "perfect". I'm not sure they would show executions, at least not onscreen. That would be a lot even for a "harder" show like BSG, for a kids' show like TCW, it would probably be too much. Then again, they've surprised me before with what they'll allow. Torture, suicide bomber, etc.

I don't think we'll see Obi-Wan or Anakin. This will stay Krell v. the clones.

My guess is that they'll take the easy way out and have Krell go sideways; that way offing him will be less mutiny and more appropriate behaviour by Rex/5s.

 

Its from Doctor Who. The Doctor is a Time Lord who is practically a god. Deus is latin for god. Deus Ex Machina translates to "God out of the machine." The machine is the TARDIS, the time traveling phone booth.