Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 412: Slaves of the Republic Discussion Thread

This is so true its sad

 

The Republic has a large army and navy, and has attacked well defended planets before. Palpatine's manipulation could get and CIS ships removed, or have Dooku have the rest of the CIS forces stand down so the Republic can send an attack force to Zygerria and attack the planet. The Zygerrians have joined or allied with the CIS, and have kidnapped Republic citizens and enslaved them. They have basically declared war on the Republic, and the Republic has the right to attack to rescue its citizens and punish the Zygerrians. With Dooku's direct involvement, one can assume Palpatine must have some influence of these events.

What are Anakin and the others doing there? If this was suppose to be a spy mission to check out Zygerra's defenses and they got caught, that is one thing. But were they actually planning to free 50,000 Togrutas and fly them off themselves? Why draw attention by flying in on a captured Zygerrian ship, wearing Zygerrian uniforms, and demanding to see the Queen. Why not go in undercover as people looking to buy slaves.

 

No, they just said they prospered before the republic came and ended their empire.

Plus, the show has had a tendency of treating the current, 1000 year republic as a separate entity from previous iterations of the republic, referring to the "fall of the Old Republic". The database entry explicitly refers to the Zygarrians as being active during the time of the Old Republic.

The Republic has a large army and navy, and has attacked well defended planets before.
They don't go around attacking every planet the seps have though. The Republic is vastly outnumbered, so they can't go around attacking hard targets on a whim.

Palpatine's manipulation could get and CIS ships removed, or have Dooku have the rest of the CIS forces stand down so the Republic can send an attack force to Zygerria and attack the planet.
Not like the Republic characters know that. And Palpatine wants the Zygarrians to make a comeback.

But were they actually planning to free 50,000 Togrutas and fly them off themselves?
Their goal is to locate the missing colonists. They don't know if they are even on the planet (and indeed they aren't), and in the comic at least, one they manage to contact the republic Plo does a relief fleet to attack the slaver facility.

 

Oh man, after reading that Ace, I just realized the latest spoiler in the trailer.

 

So it can be scene as a spy mission gone wrong. Anakin and the others were trying to figure out were and how Plo's fleet should attack. I guess I need to wait for part three, then I can see if it all adds up in the end.

Funny thing though. Couldn't the Republic actually buy the Togrutas back.

 

That was fun. I wasn't looking forward to this arc, and I cringed a bit with the Pit of Karkoon homage, but actually it's all very well done. The backgrounds and locations are fabulous, the sense of menace very real, and the Queen a suitably ambiguous character. There's also real potential for exploring Anakin's thoughts about the Jedi and slavery (they'll go to war with secessionists, but not slavers?), and what's likely to be sadly missed opportunities to explore Rex's view of himself as a (virtual) slave, and Ahsoka's relations with her people.

Constant forum obsessing about Ahsoka and her dress/sexuality/sexualisation is pretty tiring. Slavery is a Very Bad Thing, it isn't and it never was squeamish about the age of consent. I'm no fan of the overused 'threat of rape' trope, especially in kids' entertainment, but overt alien sexual menace has been part of SW since RotJ (which this arc references time and again), and you really have to be looking to see it here - Zygerrians are plainly obsessive sadists, that's ample motivation for Molec (?) to want free reign with Ahsoka, a haughty Jedi, and there's no real reason there has to be a sexual component.

 

That's an option, but would they actually support the fact they're supporting/helping slavery by buying back slaves?

 

I actually have no issue with these hints being in the show, but then I don't fully view this as a childrens program. It actually airs fairly late in Canada anyway(9pm Eastern Time).

It seems pretty clear to me that the head Zygerrian wants to get into Anakin's pants and I think its pretty easy to imagine her right hand man wanting a little of his own fun as well.

Again, I have no issue with the narrative choice to include such a plot but I do think that based upon the slaver's words and actions that he's not interested in putting Ahsoka to work as a dish washer.

 

"Get back in the kitchen and make me a sandwich!"

 

Pros
+Loved all the stuff in the background, flying lizards landing on the castle walls (reminded me of Fell Beasts in LoTR), the Monkey-lizard knife fight, shoppers bargaining at the stalls and the general ambience gave the impression of a Roman/Egyptian city full of life.
+Anakin's last Stand - I like that we finally saw the chosen one showing off his resilience
+Fianlly a villian (the Queen) who isn't just a moustache twirling monster. She like slavery and that's it "I am who I am.."
+Finally a force choke
+"Hero..., General" - possibly the closet thing we have had to an acknowelgmet of Anakin's nickname of "the hero with no fear".
+The Queens little speech about jedi being salves was quite nice
+Ahsoka in the cage, subtle use of the force to show she isn't powerless, followed by her arrogance getting her electrocuted.
+The Queens moral choice about his friends was awesome, it seems like she is quite infactuated with him.

Cons
+Ahsoka interrupting the whipping of the slave was brush it off far to easily. She should have been slapped to the ground by Anakin imo. And the slaver should have suggested to Anakin that a slave that uncontrollable she should have been in chains.
-Unexplained Bruno Duntorrai charater.
-Suicide Scene I honestly think this is too heavy for a children's show. I know we have seen it before in the mando trilogy but that was a warrior trying to avoid being caught not a young girl who had given up on life. I also think the sexual connotations on a few scenes in the episode pushed the boundaries quite a lot.
-Obi-Wan'a torture - again?
-"Whip the Jedi" - anyone else think this line just sounded bad and then it gets repeated over and over. And it didn't even sound like it properly with the background "roar" of the crowd.
-The education center guy looks far too much like a cute koala to be a bad guy.

I'm really struggling to grade this one, I enjoyed in far far more than last weeks, but the obi-wan stupid rescue attempt has my opinion muddled. If it was a deliberate attempt to make our heroes finally make a bad decision, I am a little bit lenient. Or if Obi-Wan decided to take yet another dive, to sneak into the re-education center and find the togurtas it makes sense, but after last weeks getting beaten up for the plot it seems quite repetitive. But the decision to break the guy out in broad daylight when he already has two spies in the queens camp was ludicrous.

I think I am going to give it a 8/10 but that terrible Obi rescue could drag it down to a 7/10. Depending on how I end up deciding on that botched resue

If the Republic was going to buy back the Togutras, don't they have a responsibilty to buy all the others too. And if we are going down that path what about the Slaves in Hutt space and on the out rim shouldn't they free them as well? And if they did all they would be doing would be funding this "slave Empire" we keep hearing about. Finally we already got beaten like the proverbial horse in the senate episodes that the republic is too poor to buy soldiers for the war they definitely can't afford to buy 50,000 slaves.

Here in Australia it normally airs as a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

Not sure if you've read the comic, General_Un-Co, but Ahsoka does get smacked to the ground by the slaver. Plus, Ahsoka gets smacked and kicked in the face by the Queen. You seem to be contradicting yourself by saying it would be ok for violence against Ahsoka, but not the sexual connotations about Ahsoka. And the sexual connotations are in the eyes of the beholders. Are kids watching the show going to see those implications? Who knows these days... I prefer Darth_Gamek's suggestion that Ahsoka is going to be a serving girl delivering food and drink. LOL!

The comic book broad daylight rescue was even worse. Charging around on Triceratops!

Buying slaves misses the point of freeing slaves. It only encourages slavers to round up more slaves to sell...given that you're buying them.

 

Yeah, this.

After reading all the complaints about sexual material in this thread, I watched the episode again, thinking I had somehow missed all kinds of T&A shots from Ahsoka, but it's grossly, grossly exaggerated. I didn't see any up-skirt or boob shots or anything. The only moment I noticed is that shot when she's sitting in the cage, you can see her legs. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

As for things in the dialogue... same thing. There's sexual innuendo in about every other sentence in real life.

There's nothing wrong with this episode in this respect. Some of you guys seem like those PMRC people, scouting every possible detail with a magnifying glass, just searching and reaching for any violations. So I tried watching it with that mindset, and I still couldn't find anything wrong. And honestly, I'm a pretty naughty guy, and I didn't notice any of these things.

It's just reaching for finding things wrong with Ahsoka's portrayal. Some of you should apply for a job as a linesman. You know, when everybody else is having fun, those are the guys watching if anyone is crossing the line.

tl;dr: Y'all are a bunch of sick perverts.

 

I was really captivated by that moment. It also reminded me of the suicide in the S2 Mandalorian trilogy. TCW can be way more brutal than I would expect when it wants to be.

And I completely agree with you on people's sadomasochistic views of Ahsoka.

 

Everyone is different. You cannot expect people to view things the same way as you do, or try to suggest that their personal interpretation is wrong.

I'm not going to repeat how I feel about Ahsoka or any flirt talk in this episode, but I think they did go a little overboard with this. I'm not interested in seeing nearly naked underage girls, Dave Filoni or whoever is making these decisions.

If anyone questions why I was looking at that, it was on screen for a good half minute, as the camera was panning around the side of her cage. It was very noticeable.

 

The Zygerrians are capturing slaves anyway. The Republic buying them is not going to encourage them anymore than they already are.

The buying the Togutras was a response to the idea that Zygerria is too well defended and the Republic forces are too spread out to invade. It just crossed my mind that the Republic could just pay a "ransom" to get the Togutras back, since I don't recall any mention by Anakin and the others to rescue all the slaves, just the Togutras. While the Republic "funds" the Slave Empire for the time, they could still plan to invade. They just get the Togutras out of the way, and they get intelligence from them on the Zygerrians as well as send in spies of their own. The Republic buys time, and allows the Zygerrians their victory for now, knowing they will get it in the end.

In fact, why are two of the most famous Jedi on this spy/scout mission. Plus you have Ahsoka, who is suppose to act like a slave, but doesn't act like a slave. And Rex with his Jango Fett face, the face of the a large chunk of the Republic military. Is it a surprise they got caught.

One other thing that should be mentioned, and maybe it will be in part three, is what it the political situations of this in the CIS and the Republic. Are the moderate CIS members in favor for this alliance with slavers. Weren't they suppose to be against corruption? Are the Republic worlds demanding action and pressuring Palpatine and the Jedi to attack the Zygerrians? Since it was a Togutra colony, is the Togutra government planning any action? Do the Zygerrians feel the CIS is going to win and feel safe capturing whole Republic planets of people? And does Palpatine has to have a final plan for the Zygerrians?

My fanon is, just like with Death Watch, the Zygerrians are wild cards, outside Palpatine's control. By getting both groups to side with the CIS, he gets "influence" over them through Dooku. I think, like the CIS itself, Palpatine plans for the Republic to destroy all of them. The CIS was planned by him to lose the war from the beginning, so I figure all CIS allies share a similar fate. While Palpatine might want Zygerrian's slave faculties for later use, he is going to want his own "puppet" in charge.

 

I love that Anakin saluted R2 to get his (and Obi-wan's) lightsaber. I love little things that pay homage to the movies and I like that they don't overdo it with the references which makes them more special when they add them.

 

I don't know about Obi-wan or Anakin. But I've always figured the majority of people in the galaxy wouldn't know what a clone or Jango Fett look like without the helmet on.

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I also think people are over blowing the sexual innuendo with Ahsoka with this episode. I can see where people are 'wanting' to see that with the Zygarrian whose got her at the end of the episode. That side but shot GG posted is hardly anything in my opinion. No worse than anything in the infamous DiC dub of Sailor Moon (Usagi/ Serena is 14 btw) and better than the pantie shot of Amy Jo Johnson at the end of "The Green Candle" in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers season 1 who was also playing a 15-16 year old. It really is all in the eye of the beholder and although everyone sees things different and tends to interpret things how they want to interpret them. I mean if you hate Ahsoka enough then your probably looking for that Zygarrian to beat her senseless and cut her tits off to the point where your seeing that's what he wants to do with her. Just like how if you hate the show/ Dave enough your looking for TCW to show her naked enough for CN to pull the show.

 

There were definitely sexual innuendo bit more than usual in TCW you cannot deny that and be serious- mentions of "good-looking female slave" and whatever and that excitement between Anakin(or Lars Quell) and queen- But there were not too much of that so I won't complain about it- it was not too much for kids or anything. In fact Ahsoka's outfit was far less inappropriate than her usual costumes.....

I don't think that was a problem but Ahsoka's skimpy costume ACTUALLY made perfect sense this time...

LOL it is possible to see innuendo in most sentences- but it's not really "innuendo" if it's not deliberate -so this argument doesn't really work- most sentences IRL are totally free of deliberate sexual innuendo.... of course depends who is talking

 

Yeah, given the situation and everything, a shot of more skin is hardly anything to fuss about. And I don't mind the slaver's comments to Ahsoka either, it's a hint of the reality of slaves. Look how Jafar treated Jasmine, or Frollo and Esmeralda, and those were villains from Disney films.

 

^Yes, this.

 

^sexual innuendo is actually very usual in Disney films, but it is not harmful to minors or anything because they usually don't quite get it- there is hardly any problem with this, I liked the scene and way Ahsoka almost killed that guy.

Ahsoka's usual clothing is a bigger problem what comes to this- she always wears clothes that are more revealing than they should be- if she would be he I definitely think clothes would reveal less....but this has been discussed ever since TCW started....

 

Oh boy, is it time to bring back the Ahsoka threads again?

 

I don't see how this could be a humorous or sarcastic-driven discussion. Swash is right about the fact that this has been occurring since the beginning of the series. Personally it is plain annoying that an underage girl is subjected to wearing revealing clothing. In this arc alone, I find it disturbing we would even get camera shots of seeing more skin of her; skin we shouldn't be seeing or noticing. If she was an adult, it would be different.

 

^Ahsoka's new outfit (and even this) is still improvement to tubetop that was absolutely horrifying- this outfit is actually pretty with jewellery and all....her new outfit has ridiculous holes but is less revealing than old anyway- or at least has more style.

It is unfortunate that female characters end up to be sexualised more often than males- especially when this one is underaged. I have learned to like her character, but her way to dress is clearly oversexualised and while it somehow works with her character (she is show-off) it is not very believable jedi would allow such clothing(Aayla always amused me...)

In this context I don't think anything inappropriate was done- slavery is dirty business- and the best part: Slave-Ahsoka had more on covering her upper body than she had when teaching a class

 

Just out of curiosity what would that be??