Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 413: Escape from Kadavo Discussion Thread

It's Dooku (or Darth Tyranus).

 

About the double standard with Obi-wan not killing the Warden guy but throwing a guy off a roof earlier(which he didn't but for the sake of argument let's say he did). No such double standard exists in the episode. The guy that fell from the roof as well as the multiple people Obi-wan actually DID fight were armed and a threat. The warden was unarmed and not posing any real threat at that point. Killing defenceless opponents is NOT the Jedi way, ANAKIN, of all people, says so in ROTS (G-canon,doesn't matter what the EU says). What's more he says it about a SITH. If you can't kill a defenseless star wars demon spawn, why on earth would it be acceptable to kill this unarmed nobody warden who can't even seem to walk more than three feet on his own.

If you want to talk about double standards you could talk about how when the separatists kill unarmed people they're evil but when Rex does it it's bad ass. That is actually a valid case.

OH!!!OH!!!IKNOWTHISONE!!!!!IKNOWTHISONE!!!!111!!!!

It's because...it's your right to do so. Am I right? Hell, that's the answer people always give me when I ask them that very question...

 

Been lurking and seeing what people were saying. I have mostly the same issues that others had. Episode felt rushed and too easy of an escape for Anakin and Ahsoka. I didn't read the comic so I'm not sure how exact the episode is to the original story.

Did enjoy the final battle but hated the dumbing down of Obi-Wan. And I'm not talking about the killing of the warden. Now while some of what Obi-Wan was going through might not have really happened, and could have been the Queen's imagination why she was talking to Dooku, I feel Obi-Wan was weaken by the writers so Anakin and Ahsoka could be the big heroes. And Anakin is the one who makes it so the Republic cruiser could land, and Ahsoka rescues the prisoners.

Obi-Wan would have no idea if Anakin or anyone was going to rescue him or even know where he was. He would naturally feel that he would have to make his own escape. When he and Rex were taken to the control room of the camp, we later see Obi-Wan could have removed his collar at any time. Why did he wait until the Republic forces, who he would not know was coming, to showed up? Before, or even while Anakin was attacking, he would have know that this was his best chance of saving everyone. He was in the control center and the warden was there with his lightsaber. Rex was also there. But for him to wait and try to get Anakin to surrender.........What? Did the writers feel he was going to steal Anakin's and Ahsoka's thunder? And using a "he was broken and weaken by his slavery" as some excuse is weak. Obi-Wan of the movies and EU has been captured and tortured before and didn't break. I feel, it would have been better to show Obi-Wan faking compliance, but always plotting. Even better would be to have been to have Obi-Wan and Rex leading a revolt. When the slave ship shows up, the Zygerrians think they are getting reinforcements, but the door opens and out come Anakin, Ahsoka, and a bunch of clones.


EDIT
Looking back again at the dumbing down of Obi-Wan, I need to be fair and say Ahsoka was dumbed down too, in the beginning. When Anakin rescued her, all he did was raise her cell off a hook and rip off the door using the force. Ahsoka used the force to remove her collar. Why couldn't Ahsoka just free herself? I believe she was unguarded. Like Obi-Wan, she wouldn't know what was happening with the others, and should see escaping on her own as her only choice. This looks like just poor plot, like the writers didn't know what to do if Ahsoka freed herself and went searching for Anakin and the others.

 

^^

Obi-Wan is always "dumbed" down to some extent - he gets in trouble only to be saved by Anakin (or Anakin/Ahsoka). But once he made his move in this episode, he made it, showing he wasn't so beaten down after all.

But almost everyone is dumbed down so Ahsoka (or Padme) can be heroic. I don't have a problem with Ahsoka saving the day, I have a problem with the repetitiveness of Ahsoka saving the day. She's still a padawan. She should have her moments of glory, of course, but did Obi-Wan and Anakin ever earn their reputations or not?

And please, please, please could we have some tiny moments of repercussions - not just this arc, but so many others - our characters need to grow and change, to learn from their experiences(once again, Ahsoka and Rex have gotten some growth, but precious few others).

 

This entire arc is basically a groin kick to the Obi-fans.

 

Great Episode action packed throughout.
Random thoughts

Anakin should have gotten all the credit he basically did everything.

Dooku was actually wary of an unarmed Anakin, at some stage Anakin needs to be able to dissipate / deflect Dooku?s lightning to explain why the count didn?t use it in ROTS.

How come Tano couldn?t escape? Anakin effortlessly force pushed the cage door open and she effortlessly removed the collar.

Rex killing the administrator part was cool but Kenobi motivating him to do it was probably worse than him doing the deed himself.

What exactly did the queen die of? Did the count break her neck???

 

Medically, she was perfectly healthy. She just lost the will to live.

 

[image=http://feralpartykids.com/images/fry%20i%20see%20what%20you%20did%20there.jpg]

 

What am I back-pedaling about? I haven't retracted anything, I guess you just misread my initial post on the episode.

What I meant is that I wasn't going to repeat Gry and Confederate's comments b/c they've already been made and I agree with them and I'm boarding on my iPhone. Is that clear?

 

Had to be done

 

Yes, the writing was faulty on that. In the comic version, the banter between Ahsoka and the guard, and Anakin showing up to free her from the cage, occur in the same time frame. There's no implied time delay of hours or days...

WIN!!!

 

You realize that actual fighter pilots have actually used said tactics. And the Jedi Starfighter is aerodynamic enough that it should be able to keep flying with it engines off.

 

The collar trick was hilarious. I guess in-universe, you could speculate the collar was designed to prevent the wearer from tampering with it (although how it would protect against the Force, I don't know).

Watching TCW, especially after thinking about the Old Republic era, where there are thousands of Jedi and Sith fighting one another, you'd think the Jedi would have some kind of defence against Sith Lightning. Yoda does, but I would suggest that any Jedi Master should be able to do that.

If you go by TCW (as I've said before), the Sith, or even a Dark Side user, appear to be 1,003 times stronger than the Jedi in combat. It beggars belief that the Jedi could ever defeat the Sith in a war....unless we're supposed to believe that the Sith just wiped each other out.


As far as the Obi-Wan issue goes, I think they were right that he wouldn't kill the Keeper in cold blood. Anakin has the same reluctance to kill Dooku in ROTS. My huge problem is Obi-Wan's smirk and look over to Rex.

Seerow - I just don't get your interpretation. To me, it's obvious that Obi-Wan looks over at Rex as if to say "be my guest".

 

By the way, Obi-Wan DID throw a guard off a roof. Well, technically off a dragon. In the last episode during his horrible rescue attempt of the Governor. He tosses a Zygerrian Dragonrider into one of the Slave Pits. We don't know if the guard died or not. I'm assuming not, though.

Also, anyone remember the fact that the Keeper was arrested in the original, and not killed? So... what was the point beyond Rex Fanservice this time around? Nothing? If they felt the Keeper needed to die, just give him a side arm or something. Problem solved.

Also, I still don't get why Obi-Wan WOULDN'T kill him in cold blood, since he clearly executes an unarmed Granta Omega. Wouldn't seem that much of a stretch to me.

 

Aw man, sorry, I was messing with you all the time. My original reaction to what you posted was just a sarcastic way to point out a flaw in one of their arguments. I thought you were totally on to me.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

And I don't get how your jumping to that conclusion Garth. If your asking me to study the clip then here is a paragraph with my findings. Rex wasn't told or suggested to do anything. Its a split second sideways glance and Rex's own eyes are locked on Arguss. When the shot zoomed he looked at his weapon and then back to Argus just before the throw. Rex had been staring Arguss down throughout the episode. I feel Rex acted of his own accord and had already made his mind up. Obi-wan merely acknowledged Rex was there and likely knew what was about to happen. There was also a sound effect like the lightning staff or whatever it was being spun right before Obi-wan looked over. The sound and perhaps the motion may have been what prompted the quick glance. Thus my statement that Rex was already in motion. Human eyes are the most sensitive to motion at the edge of peripheral vision.

 

^ Agreed, I also got the impression his attention was drawn by the sound the weapon made. I can see why people think it suggests otherwise though.

 

I don't understand why he hesitated to kill an unarmed Krell, but had no problem killing an unarmed Arguss. I understand it's for tension purposes, but come on, if they're going to have the same character who had hesitated to kill a being in the past to kill someone now, it just looks terribly strange.

The situations seemed similiar (especially the killings, i.e, "who did that?"), but at the end, Obi-Wan acted like what Rex did in the Krell episode, and Rex like dogma.

 

@GG
Killing General Krell and Arguss are not the same thing for Rex GG. Maybe it was a similar experience for Obi-wan if he really was brought to near broken status. But then isn't it implied in ROTS that Jedi don't kill unarmed and helpless opponents in cold blood? Brutal soldiers do but the Jedi still aren't really soldiers. Rex is. Obi-wan didn't have a chance to tell Rex to do it or not to do it. The glance is like a second of acknowledgement of what's going on over there. General Krell was a Jedi traitor who caused Rex to have a rather traumatic experience. I'm sure it was also against whatever code Rex goes by which may be a personal one beyond what Rex is trained to follow to execute a prisoner instead of handing him over to Obi-wan. Krell was also taunting Rex and trying to talk him down so he wouldn't kill him which is the biggest similarity between what happened there and what Obi-wan went though. He really completely ignored Rex up until Rex killed him. Rex didn't act one bit like Dogma. Dogma has pretty much been driven to insanity when he shot Krell. Rex is just doing what he thought needed to be done. Ever heard the phrase, "If you want something done you have to do it yourself."?

@Humble
I guess I can get why people think otherwise. I can also understand being upset Rex was given the kill. But its hard for me to see this clip from that point of view. I guess people are gonna see what they want including me. Those three seconds was the only time in the entire slave arc Rex's was inline with the development is got in Umbara.

 

So, "being captured" had little to no effect for Rex in this slavery arc? To me these situations are pretty much similiar. If you're trained to kill and be prepared for combat, like Rex, surely Rex did not learn on Umbara that he couldn't kill an unarmed being. I saw it as the writing forcing him to not do it for tension purposes, and it was clear to me that that's the route they took. Now for this slave episode, basically Rex's life seemed to be on the line because of the way it was written, and Rex clearly did not hesitate to stop the unarmed villain of the week by killing him.

You can possibly also look at it as who is being given the characterization. Obi-Wan, in this case, was being looked at more than Rex, so it's clear that they wouldn't allow Obi-Wan to kill him, but rather the background character that's with him, who is Rex. In the Krell episode, it was the opposite. Rex was being featured, while the background characters were Dogma, ect. This usually happens in TCW, and it may differ in your interpretation, but I tend to see them concentrating on one character and not allowing another character to shine in a moment of the episode, pretty much before another character is killed. Voyage of Temptation springs into mind with this as well.

I don't get it, but I guess they like the "SURPRISE!!" killing in an episode.

 

Arguss was a typical straight-up evil overseer villain who wasn't particularly important to the plot. Krell wasn't as black and white and was the central focal point of that arc. And Krell was both a Jedi General and Rex's commanding officer during the arc. I'm sure Rex was hesitant because he was considering the consequences of executing a Jedi.

 

Krell was not a Jedi at the end of the episode.

 

Rex got no focus what so ever in this slave arc which to me is the biggest disappointment. Its a wasted opportunity particularly after what happened in the slave arc. Dogma got much more focus in the Umbaran arc than Rex did in this arc. But Dogma was also a new character and they were starting from scratch portraying him as a loyal clone who followed orders to the later and was later driven insane by following the wrong orders given to him by a general he trusted.

In this episode the only things Rex does is stare angerly at Arguss and the guards and also very angerly at Dooku's hologram. Is it any kind of reveal that Rex would hate Dooku? We have no idea how being in the slave camp made Rex feel besides apparently pissing him off. That may have been boiling over when he killed Arguss. But far as what was presented. Rex was just being the independent and tough soldier he's normally portrayed as.

Rex killing him didn't really surprise me. I predicted he would when Obi-wan was being taunted since Anakin far as I knew was else where. It was blatant fanservice. Saying -- "I'm no Jedi." -- was completely out of character for Rex in my opinion. But oh well, I'll take it. Its nice to know the folks working on TCW recognize Rex's popularity beyond putting him on shirt tags. Take that Forcecast! Rex is a top tier character!

I'm gonna quote both of you here. I'm to lazy to do it separately, lol. Rex may have been considering the consequences for killing Krell. I thought the hangup was Rex wanted to do the right thing and Krell using that against Rex to stall him. Rex really wanted was the turn him over to Obi-wan.

Rex was still referring to Kr

 

I'll continue this later with you, I have other things to do after this.

I met to take a look at the episode scene in general. Meaning, prior to the death of a character. Obi-Wan and Rex in that room vs Rex and clan in that jail room near Krell. The background characters did nothing, and Rex had most of the attention and characterization. This occurs in the slave arc as well, until a background character, Rex in particular, pulled the trigger and killed someone. Surely, I don't think, again for tension purposes, the character having the spot light would kill someone. I guess it's just the way they like to write.

Rex also hated Krell with his body language in the Umbara arc as well, but did he boil over and kill Krell? No. That makes no sense if you look at that and then this episode.

Yes, I agree that line (and for me, that moment) made no sense. And, I don't listen to the <s>suckup</s>Forcecast.

 

He was. Regardless of what he prattled on about in his holding cell moments before his death. None of that was leaked outside; everything from Krell's capture to his execution was handled solely by Rex and his men. Krell was still, rank-wise, a Jedi General, and would have been regarded as such after his death unless the Council decided otherwise upon hearing Rex's testimonies. If Krell made a call to the Jedi Council announcing his resignation, then maybe he would have stopped being a Jedi. But seeing as the only people who heard what he said (I don't think it was a literal resignation either. "I'm no longer a Jedi" sounds to me more like "I no longer consider myself a Jedi because my personal allegiances have changed" than "I hereby announce that I am leaving the Jedi Order") were from Rex's unit, I don't think he would have been officially stricken off the record during that time.