Full Series The Clone Wars: Episode 414: A Friend In Need Discussion Thread

Warn you now, believe me later:
This will be my new forum icon forever:
[image=http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/clonewarspics/AhsokaBonteri.jpg]
Or maybe this one: So hard to decide!
[image=http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l485/clonewarspics/AhsokaBonteri2.jpg]

 

Padmé told Ahsoka to do it. Also, Satine probably wouldn't like them killing Lux because he thinks Dooku killed his mother, how Lux found out, I don't know. Dooku tried pretty hard to make it seem like the Republic did it and also even denied it to Lux when he talked to him. Silencing a grieving guy for merely criticizing Dooku doesn't seem like them trying to be nice.

I imagine things would have gone like this, from how they defended Dooku so much, if the peace talks actually started to go anywhere.

Separatist: So, Count Dooku, we've decided to end the war.
Dooku: What?! Cooperate with the Republic?! That's disgraceful!
Separatist: But....!
Dooku: I don't approve of it.
Separatist: Yes Count Dooku. We'll continue the War.

Or Dooku would send in an a bunch of guys, possibly funded by greedy bankers, hmmmmm, why are you working with corporations Count?, and attack them and make it seem like the Republic was at fault or make the Republic think the Separatists has lured them into an ambush and the war would continue with even more vigor.

Ahsoka and Lux probably stopped Dooku from getting even more sway by Dooku causing mayhem like he did the last time (the episode where Ahsoka and Lux first met)!

Also, does anyone realize that "Malak" is Hebrew for "angel"?

Maybe Vizla ends up working

 

Well, I'm fine with being corrected on Death Watch. I was never really into any of the Manda-lore (ha!) out there, so if it's consistent with their history, then good!

I only know the Mandos from KOTOR and it's been some time since I've played, but I thought they were about proving themselves through combat; anyone can slaughter innocents. Unless you're saying Death Watch is a corruption of the true Mando sensibility, in which case, I'm cool with that.

The 2nd half of the episode was actually awesome and probably my favorite non-Umbara episode to date in S4, still feels like the intro to an arc instead of a stand-alone.

 

Pretty nice episode- nothing too special though- standard "okay TCW-quality".

+Lux is actually nice character in this- not jumping to the republic side right away.
+Right amount of Padmé- more than this could ruin any episode
+Return of DW, Viszla and some brutality.
+Humans! New culture and even mandos have actually faces under their helmet!
+Bec Lawise with a speaking role
+R2- heroics like this are enough for me- droidhybrids were quite epic...
+LOL that kiss... young love even though looks like Ahsoka fell for him bit too easy
+Ending scene was quite epic.... (LOL actually it was even a bit too syrupy if it would've been any worse than that it would've been clear con- they had few minutes together and now she is soooooo sad when he departs....you're a jedi girl- no boyfriend never ever ....)
-Ahsoka was quite cruel now- but well she is a jedi and mandos don't seem to earn her respect.... decapitation was cool nevertheless
-"hologram pinpoint device" whatever... that was just so lame
-I would've liked to see more of those negotiations- while it would've meant more Padmé as well....
-commando droids had terrible stormtroopersyndrome and they had no weapons when they took Lux.... would've been cool to see them killing him with their bare hands though....


And all young girls near Ahsoka tend to die in this show .....

Bo-Katan probably has more role later on... hopefully...

 

Seconded. I actually have a hard time remembering much else from Season 4 other than the Umbara Arc and last week's episode from the top of my head.

 

Plus, looking at the Lord Resistance Army and similar organizations in Africa...the natives got off lightly. Course, those groups and what they do are too traumatic for adult's television, much less a kids show.

Personally I kind of like it - he is petty enough that a simple request to leave invites a massacre, but this wasn't spur of the moment impulsive behavior. He gave no hint of his intention at the moment, and calmly played along until the most dramatic moment. Far sighted and calculating vindictiveness - combined with his pettiness, that is very terrifying.

I am less ok with the Lux-Ashoka bits, but most because I think they missed a great opportunity to have some grayness with Lux being a loyal CIS soldier who blames the Republic for his parents' death.

I am not sure why everyone called the CIS senators evil though...so they wanted independence - that is kind of the whole point of their cause. And so what if they didn't believe the crazy ramblings of a kid?

 

If I remember my KOTOR mandos are blamed for slaughtering innocents there as well- so DW is just following old tradition of being evil b*stards. Of course not all of them but DW is that "very bad" group of mando warriors....

 

Oh dear.

 

True about the morality. However, Padme told Ahsoka to be discreet about dealing with Lux. Starting a firefight between Republic and CIS legislature guards isn't discreet, and as Anakin informs Ahsoka, her actions result in the peace talks collapsing into a diplomatic nightmare.

TBH, I don't think Satine gives a damn about Lux's life. Both Satine and Padme are likely to consider Lux's life to be of lesser importance next to the thousands of clone troopers, non-clone soldiers and civilians whose lives would be saved due to a favourable agreement. A complete end to hostilities would seem highly unlikely (it's the old USA/CSA dichotomy again, finally recognised in TCW! ) but Ahsoka's actions result in a lot of unnecessary bad blood between the sides.

 

All around amazing episode. I missed it last night but watched it on the website today. This episode was great. Lately, I've been skipping this show because I haven't been loving it, but I feel this season's had some of the best episode since season 1. The Umbaran Arc, and now this episode was awesome. I loved seeing Death Watch return, and now really like the Ahsoka/Lux Romance being set up. But, a couple things:

*I didn't like the splitting up of Death Watch and Dooku all of a sudden
*I was shocked at the masscre of the village by Death Watch. For being a 'kid's show,' this show can get violent
*It seems like Lux will be Ahsoka's Padme
*Is their relationship a foreshadowing of her fate? Will she leave the Jedi Order for him?
*I loved the droids allying themselves with Artoo against Death Watch

Overall, I'd rank this at an A to A-

 

Sweet .... or horrifying if you don't like teenage love in TCW... This was so expected after HOBS and I must confess they are cute together-even though I do understand opposite reaction as well (meaning: )- teenagers kissing is not what people usually think SW is all about

 

Come on, Swashbuckler. Let the people have their romantic subplots.

At least it isn't a 20/30-something man paired with Ahsoka...

 

Except you know the original Star Wars had Luke and Leia kiss and both were like 19 at the time.

 

lol

I'll make them if nobody else already has.

 

This episode was... eh. Like many TCW episodes, it had many great ideas but suffered from mediocre execution and a lack of follow-through. It felt rushed and unsatisfying. I think adding a second episode to this story arc would have improved both the pacing and the story.

The Republic-CIS peace summit was an interesting premise, but was wasted when Lux showed up out of nowhere. As a way of getting Lux into the plot, it felt very contrived and disjointed. It's also quickly forgotten, despite the fact that Ahsoka ruined the entire meeting. Anakin seems to be ambivalent about it and we don't see any sign that Ahsoka considered the greater consequences of her actions before rescuing Lux. Surely she could have attempted to be a bit more stealthy? Perhaps we can assume that Palpatine recommended she attend...

Lux himself was okay, what with all his naivety and overconfidence. I don't mind his holo-tracer thing too much. But then again I also choose to believe that the trace was incorrect. My main Lux complaint is that they didn't use his mother's death to full effect. Yeah, it's a kids show. But what greater fear do kids have than losing (both!) their parents? Make the audience feel his anger. Make them feel his sadness. Make them feel his loneliness. I'm not requesting a huge, angsty monologue, but I'd like a bit more than what we got. Bah, 20-minute runtime! Bah!

The, er, "romance" is meh. There's a whiff of chemistry, alright, but it's not organic. Manufactured. Thing is, I don't dislike the idea of a Luxoka situation, because that could provide some interesting character development. But you can plainly see the hands of the writers pushing together little Lux and Ahsoka action figures to make out. Again, time constraints hurt this episode. Adding a simple conversation between them---with the topic being anything but their present situation---could have made their "romance" more authentic.

Death Watch was the bright spot of the episode for me. I like the idea that Vizsla went a little crazy after Dooku nearly killed him. I also didn't mind the mindless brutality, since that was their hallmark from Open Seasons. But I feel it was premature. Death Watch vs Dooku sounds really cool. I also really like the idea of a story focusing on what it means to seek vengeance and take honorable revenge. Too bad this episode had neither. A second episode would have allowed the Lux revenge plot to simmer a bit more.

Oh, and the R2 and battle droids subplot was good too.

That's it exactly. Death Watch in Open Seasons is a bunch of murderous thugs, opposed to the more honorable "True Mandalorians".

 

Jon Favreau was good as Viszla again- he is quite cool TCW bad guy. Hopefully he has a big role in season5

Hey I said they are cute. That screenshot however gives a different picture of their relationship than actual scene did....If that would've been pic in the episode guide or a preview slide it would've made many viewers very worried about this episode.... after all this episode was pretty well done and I had no problems with this romance, it was subtle enough not to bother me in any way and actually cute. Interesting to see what they're gonna do with Lux- nice that he didn't die so soon.

I was bit surprised they made Ahsoka so easy, I was expecting they would make her more aggressive and Leia-like and now it was actually Ahsoka who said she is betrothed of Lux- but then again, Lux is not at all like Han- so better that they had him as gentleman as he was- he is not scoundrel at all...

Oh yeah so they were still teenagers good point.... and yuck they were bro and sis so it was definitely worse than this

 

I still wonder if the Betrothed joke wasn't actually foreshadowing that Lux and Ahsoka will get engaged for real and its all down hill from there. I don't really mind or care to much about the romantic subplot but I can't think of a show that doesn't have one and its nice to see Ahsoka getting development. I also really enjoy Lux and see alot of potential in him for a character who is both complex and relatable. Like I said before he really seems like a lost kid who is just smart enough and just stupid enough to have alot of bad ideas. I wouldn't mind him getting into trouble being a running gag. Not to mention although I'm against Ahsoka having a relationship with a certain 20/30 year old looking-ish man, I can get behind the idea of that same man getting to meet Lux at some point. It would be interesting for Lux to have to face what killed his father upclose and for the other guy to meet a former C.I.S. kid upclose.

 

"That's it exactly. Death Watch in Open Seasons is a bunch of murderous thugs, opposed to the more honorable "True Mandalorians"."


But aren?t the "Honorable True Mandalorians" pretty much an exclusive Karen Travis thing? TCW version of Death Watch is pretty much a carbon copy of the Mandos in the "Tales of the Jedi" comics and the KOTOR comics and games. Aren?t the good guy Mandos rather a perversion of the true, mostly amoral, Mandos presented in most sources (I haven?t read the Karen Travis books, so I?m only speculating on their nature)?

 

The whole Honorable Mandos thing wasn't made up by Traviss--- Open Seasons had Jaster Mereel, who was a good soldier and a good guy, even the KOTOR lot had their own (albeit somewhat twisted) code of honor, just look at Rohlan Dyre, or Cassus Fett, or hell, even Mandalore the Ultimate himself?

I liked seeing Death Watch as they were in Open Seasons, but my concern this is all Mandos are gonna be now, and we're not gonna have Spar, Tobbi Dala and Fenn Shysa for audiences to see what happens when Mandos go right.

 

I'm so tempted to use one of these when they are made (only because I think they are so cute together)

 

The only Mandalorians we knew of in person(so to speak) before KotOR came along were the honorable crew lead by Fenn Shysa that joined the rebellion in Marvel back between 1982 and 1983, so I'd say we've had good guy Mando's, bad guy Mando's and kinda inbetweeners as well for quite a long time.

ESB novel mentions that Boba wore the armor a warrior race that fought the Jedi(or something of the like) as a brief decription as well. But we got to know Shysa much better than that.

 

"more honorable" The True Mandalorians in Open Seasons, led by Jaster Mereel (and later Jango Fett), are a mercenary army. So they're not angels. But they're also not depicted as [implied] rapists and [explicit] murderers, like Death Watch is.

The existence of "good", honorable Mandalorians far, far predates Karen Traviss. The earliest examples are the Mandalorian Protectors in the Marvel Star Wars comics of the 1980s---decent former police officers that end up joining the Rebellion because the Empire enslaved Mandalore. However, I will admit that Mandalorians have always been somewhat bipolar. Depending on the source, they can go from bloodthirsty crusaders to peaceful cube-dwellers.

 

Loved it.

Damn good episode for fashion junkies. I would love to see the Togrutan Winter Coat w/ Hood ensemble at Celebration VI, although I'd fear for that person's health and safety in the Orlando heat. And I even dug Lux's beanie cap.

Since Artoo was apparently elsewhere when Lux hid Ahsoka's lightsabers, does anybody else wonder what else he did with her while she was unconscious? Ahsoka should keep a close eye on Lux's Facebook page for the next few days.

I personally hope we never see Bo-Katan's face. It would be a refreshing return to the sense of mystery that Star Wars has slowly lost over the years.

 

I totally get what yourself(and others) saying about the possibility of Pre Vizsla being a true political idealist would have added depth to the story, I just probably didn't view them that way because of having read about the Death Watch previous to this.

It is nice that the series maintained Death Watch's original persona. Now when we get the actual Mandalorians in the multi-colored armor they will likely be the true idealists with the Death Watch still maintaining their villianous roots.

Did anyone notice that there were multiple female Death Watch memebers as well? Two anyway counting Bo-Katan.

 

With that whole winter coat thing Ahsoka was wearing kind of reminded me of what Padme wore when she was with master Yoda on Ilum in Genndy's clone wars microseries.

Also i wouldn't be surprised if that coat and Lux's cap were made part of Ashley Eckstein's Her Universe clothing line.