Amph The Comic Book MINI Draft

Not disputing the Thragg match at all. Bad draw.

I don't know much about COnstantine. I read something about him killing some version of Dr. Fate but most of what I've seen (admittedly little) has to do with him being able to trick and deceive people or escape rather than outright win fights against high-level people.

Etrigan apparently does pretty well vs hell magic and has good magic of his own, and importantly has crazy durability. I don't know how Constantine was going to beat Supes or Diana, but even if he can counter Etrigan's magic he still has to deal with the physicality and ferocity and knock him out. That's while facing 2 other guys which, when it comes to prep, may be harder to counter than 1 stronger guy because it's more things to deal with. Etrigan in the New 52 apparently startled, in various places, some random female (Zatanna?), Constantine and Spectre, just by waking up in a weakened state. Not a battle feat but shows the kind of beings he gives pause to.

Dex... Yeah, so learned he knows how to use constructs, apparently since 2014. Thanks for nothing, Wiki. And he's apparently, since achieving cult fame, been able to almost kill Rankorr (one of the main Red Lanterns, also can use constructs) before being surprise attacked by Bleez. In a 2nd encounter he was fighting what seemed to be RAnkorr and BLeez at the same time and having advantage. For awhile. I'm sure they beat him in the end. It's here. Also notice his intelligence in making Atro a new working heart. Could come in handy if Etrigan or Cold is killed, as he can probably heal as well as destroy. I don't know where I'd put him. BLeez is 2nd to Atro in Red if you don't count Guy, and Rankorr is probably along the same level so Dex is around there as well I would say. Probably above Kilowog, maybe a bit below Kyle? He did have some low showings but that was before constructs, I believe.

Captain Cold... Well, he's really a quick draw, able to hit Flash on some occasions even in his own comic which is much harder than in JL comics I think. He can make an ice field that slows eveything and freezes everything. Even Flash is slowed to where Cold can easily freeze him and it's not like it's a terribly large field. Body size, maybe a few meters around? He also has an ice grenade used to freeze a whole city instantly during Blackest Night, including Black Lantern Reverse-Flash. Diana has been frozen by Killer Frost before. I imagine that as the master of absolute zero Cold could freeze Constantine. A city-freezing grenade is kinda hard to dodge, as are the ice beams. Cold can also create mirages using the gun apparently, according to his Wiki. He can make walls of ice instantaneously as well, and different ice objects. on a large or small scale and he's super accurate. If frozen, I'm pretty sure Constantine can't think to do a spell. Respect thread and whatnot. SHows skill at thinking on the fly too.

Obviously Etrigan is the tank here, but all 3 are capable of killing Constantine given an opening and they have varying ways to do it. I don't know how Constantine is at base but that is a lot to prep for in 24 hours. Especially in a draft where prep hasn't really meant as much in judging...

Edit
Just reading the above... Who has Constantine actually beaten? And what is his experience vs Non-magic people like Lanterns?

 

Mikaboshi my bad on misremembering the time line, been several months since i read it. wasn't trying to be misleading on it, just genuinely misremembered. but actually reading the whole thing, which i have, that he was confused and trying to understand what was going in is very self-evident in the overarching story... since he was going to actually save bette from the cutter, and finds the cutter dead and bette in hyper ultra modeus mode. so going from on his way to save someone to finding the person you were going to save having killed the one you were afraid was going to cause them harm and then them beating at you is not exactly the best state of mind for much of anyone, and he was still conflicted about his feelings for her at the time. which basically results in that fight.

 

At least he got over his conflicted feels.

 

Some more Etrigan stuff. He's pretty used to fighting high-level magic guys and has beaten Morgan Le Fay (sp) and Merlin I believe, but what I just looked at is the first two items in this respect thread. At least the person who posted them seems to believe they put Etrigan there as "almost as dangerous as the SPectre" since this is apparently a group that beat Spectre and Eclipso. If you Wiki Nightmaster and Eclipso, Nightmaster shows that this shame group beat them, Eclipso... Well, just shows how ridiculous Eclipso is, which according to the Ragman feat is not as ridiculous as Etrigan. May be a high-end feat for Etrigan, I dunno. He's lost to Superman. He's also completely overpowered Wonder Woman. But yeah, main thing was to show what Etrigan at least has done compared with high-level magic beings, and that Constantine would be far from the 1st high level magic user he's fought, and that's just by himself without non-magical (which I assume Constantine would have to spend time prepping differently for) help.

I probably won't be able to do any more serious searching till Saturday unless I stay up super late Friday, so if judgments are posted by then, great lol. I don't know much more about Etrigan anyway.

 

Officially, you are the best argument creator in the history of the Comic Book Draft.

 

This is great, but needed a "King" or something paired with "Lying" (or "Lyin'") for the Pride Rock location for A++++ material.

 

a star war and Mikaboshi - do either of you want/need more arguments? If not, let's judge.

I personally wouldn't mind an argument on Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Omni-Man

 

Beyond that which I have given?

 

Yes. It wasn't enough to surely sway me. But, again, I'm just a tiebreaker, so ...

 

We Are (Definitely Not) Family vs. Charybdis Revenge



Maker (Prepared) vs. Black Panther (Prepared)

Ouch.


Nova (Richard Ryder) TRUMPED with Drax vs.Mongul

This one I am not 100% on yet. Nova on his own is fairly tough, and neither Drax or he are overly susceptible to fear. I could be reversed on this or even change my mind with a great argument for Mongul, but to keep it moving I'll place a weak vote for Nova/Drax


Swamp Thing vs. Loki

This is a fun fight to contemplate, and if the location was less favorable to ST or if Loki had prep I'd go with Loki



The Yak's Inferno, Presented by the Daily Bugle vs. Hundred Acre Woods Most Wanted



Thragg vs. Black Bolt TRUMPED with Cable

BB and Cable, kind of a rough draw for Thragg.


Etrigan TRUMPED with Dex-Starr AND Captain Cold vs. John Constantine (Prepared)

Hrm, the Etrigan argument was solid and I'd like to do a bit more reading before I make my call. Leaning JC, but it's a weak lean at the moment.


captain Cold (forfeit) vs. Vistion TRUMPED with Amadeus Cho



108 Years to Get Harry Carayed Away vs. dp4m's Secret Team to fight Inflation
Give me some time on these, Hulk vs Superman and Omni vs Hal are harder calls. Will be voting Surfer though.

 

Well, again, here's Omni-Man speed blitzing the entire JLA analogue (the Guardians of the Globe):

Spoiler

Along with the Immortal and Black Samson, the team included Darkwing (based on Batman), War Woman (based on Wonder Woman), a Russian named Red Rush (based on the Flash), Aquarus the King of Atlantis (based on Aquaman), Martian Man (based on the Martian Manhunter) and the Green Ghost (based on Green Lantern).

Or, dealing with The Immortal:

Spoiler

Or planet busting, across the universe...

Spoiler

PS - On the Starship Enterprise, under Captain Kirk...

EDIT:

 

Since I'm at lunch and love to see myself type...

What are Constantine's victories and how? I just see escapes.

 

That's what I am starting to think as well. Many of his more impressive wins involve a lot of trickery and con tactics that won't ever be relevant here, can't really see that being of benefit to him and since that is so central to his character it's hard to really figure out how he preforms in a straight up fight. Especially in a 3-1 fight. I am starting to hate reading JC respect threads, a lot of the arguments in there are cringe worthy.

 

less favorable to swamp thing? than an ice planet? o__O

not arguing, just wrapping my mind around that one.

 

oh. nevermind then. missed that. might help if i was able to look in here more than once or twice every few days right now.

 

Good feats for Constantine. Like none of his opponents were actually fighting him though. Most were like, talking to him. And there's no context to any of them. Just "he killed Dr. Fate" and we just get the last scan. I mean, he's a G just to be able to do that stuff but I still don't any better how he'd do in a fight. There are Etrigan and Cold scans I didn't mention because they were surprise attacks.

 

Final votes.


We Are (Definitely Not) Family vs. Charybdis Revenge



Maker (Prepared) vs. Black Panther (Prepared)



Nova (Richard Ryder) TRUMPED with Drax vs.Mongul



Swamp Thing vs. Loki





The Yak's Inferno, Presented by the Daily Bugle vs. Hundred Acre Woods Most Wanted



Thragg vs. Black Bolt TRUMPED with Cable


Etrigan TRUMPED with Dex-Starr AND Captain Cold vs. John Constantine (Prepared)

I am going to give it to JC. Like the circle of protection, like the summoning, like the countering. CC doesn't seem like something that JC would have to worry about, ever. Dex, could be helpful. I just don't see any of it pulling together, and Etrigan does seem specifically vulnerable here....which kind of sucks since he is the powerhouse of that trio.


captain Cold (forfeit) vs. Vistion TRUMPED with Amadeus Cho



108 Years to Get Harry Carayed Away vs. dp4m's Secret Team to fight Inflation

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Omni-Man



Zatanna vs. Silver Surfer


Hulk (Savage) vs. Superman

I found myself doing more reading on this than I cared for, but did find a great little gem of an article.

http://pinstor.us/articles/hulk-vs-superman-a-fight-between-ultimate-strength-titans/

It sums up how I feel on this for the most part (removing Silver Age feats, sun dip references, etc), this is a coin toss if ever there was one. The more Superman beats Hulk the more angry Hulk will be, he is lliterally tireless, limitless in his strength, he will heal faster and faster as time goes. I think Superman comes out hard in the start, using speed and diversity in attacks to his advantage, but he can't beat Hulk unless it's hand to hand.....and I think the closer he comes to actually beating Hulk the more dangerous Hulk becomes. Superman, while seemingly possessing an endless supply strength and endurance, can actually tire and can accumulate damage in the short term.

I just think that it's going to go on for a LONG time, and the longer it goes the more it seems to benefit Hulk.

 

Ummmmmm... literally, you're in the minority opinion here on like everything. Including every time they fight in Marvel/DC:

http://nerdist.com/who-would-win-in-a-fight-between-superman-and-the-hulk/

"And just for reference, all three times they have actually fought in the combined Marvel/DC comics, Superman has won."

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/hulk-vs-superman-699982/ (Superman)
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superman-vs-hulk/551475/ (Superman)
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superman-vs-the-incredible-hulk/2765/ (Superman)
http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/quiksilver70777/superman-vs-the-hulk/87-74890/ (Superman)

etc, etc, etc.

We've already ruled out Worldbreaker Hulk (who people generally think would win, unless you start getting into sun-dipping BS)...

 

The question on whether Hulk or Supernan wins was split 39/39.

All those crossover things don't mean anything, weren't some of them decided based on fan votes?

I'm sticking to it, like Hulk here. Savage gets better as the pain, anger, and frustration rise.


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