The "damned fool idealistic crusade".

He's not 'putting words' in anyone's mouth. Obi Wan is just giving us his opinion of Owen's opinion.

Is any of that based on what Owen actually said or what Obi-wan is telling Luke Owen said? If Owen didn't say it, and Obi-wan is saying "your father wanted you to have it, but your uncle wouldn't allow it," that's alluding to an actual occurance that we never see happen, that couldn't have happened in the two days they knew each other as stepbrothers, so seeing as how it never happened and Owen never said any of the things Obi-wan is claiming him to have said, he is clearly putting words in Owen's mouth.

As for never having expressed an opinion on this topic... Watch Owen in ANH. You see just what he thinks of Obi Wan, Anakin, Jedi, and idealistic crusades. And that opinion of his is formed over time, not just after Owen's first meeting of Anakin in AotC.

Like I said, that's the Owen of ANH, but we never see what makes him go from point A to point B; what Obi-wan tells Luke never happened. What is it based on? Owen had no involvement in Anakin becoming a Jedi, Anakin didn't abandon the farm like what Luke wanted to, we don't know if Tatooine was affected in any way by the Empire, so what was the trigger? Someone he didn't know or care about falling to the Dark Side? If they were closer or at least knew each other, there'd be some relevance, but Owen is just an afterthought in the Prequels, and it makes Obi-wan look like an idiot in ANH.

 

"Owen never said any of the things Obi-wan is claiming him to have said"

Obi Wan never once says "Owen Lars thinks I have been on a damn fool idealistic crusade". What Obi Wan does in that one scene is characterize Owen's position BUT he does not say this is anything other than Obi Wan's interpretation of Owen's personality.

In other words, Obi Wan never actually claims that Owen says these things. It's more Obi Wan's take on the whole situation.

"Like I said, that's the Owen of ANH, but we never see what makes him go from point A to point B"

In AotC, Owen only meets Anakin briefly. They spend most of their time together at Shmi's funeral. It's not a great time for Owen to discuss his dissatisfaction with Anakin's lifestyle choice. Besides, this is an opinion that develops over 23 years. It can't be shown in AotC because it (Owen's opinion) hasn't even been formed.

"Owen had no involvement in Anakin becoming a Jedi, Anakin didn't abandon the farm like what Luke wanted to, we don't know if Tatooine was affected in any way by the Empire, so what was the trigger?"

Luke's desire to leave was the trigger. In a lesser way, Luke's similarity to Anakin also brought about some of these opinions (that's why Beru comments on it in ANH).

"Owen is just an afterthought in the Prequels, and it makes Obi-wan look like an idiot in ANH."

Obi Wan in ANH obviously does not like Owen. He's basically making fun of the guy behind his back. Plus, Obi Wan believes that Luke is the 'last hope' (according to ESB). Obi Wan knows that Luke staying on Tatooine dirt farming is short sighted and not very altruistic. How does that make Obi Wan look like an idiot?

 

I think some people are too quick to jump the gun on the dialogue or scenarios in the OT, which indirectly refer to events or things in the PT. One shouldn't be too hasty in calling something a plot hole simply because it doesn't tie directly into one scenario or refer to something that actually happened in the PT. This 'damn fool idealistic crusade' line is a good example. It could be taken as and is meant as a generalization, IMO. I feel this is Lucas' way of stating that Owen and Anakin/Obi-Wan are different kinds of people, whereas Owen is one who believes in the simple life and that one should attend to their own personal matters rather trying to affect things in the bigger picture. Anakin and Obi-Wan are just the opposites.

 

"Owen never said any of the things Obi-wan is claiming him to have said"

Obi Wan never once says "Owen Lars thinks I have been on a damn fool idealistic crusade". What Obi Wan does in that one scene is characterize Owen's position BUT he does not say this is anything other than Obi Wan's interpretation of Owen's personality.

Hmmm...

BEN: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your
father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten
involved.

BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have
this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic
crusade like your father did.

From what we have here, it looks to be more than an interpretation on Obi-wan's part. He speaks like as though there's some personal experience.

If Obi-wan doesn't speak from a personal interaction between himself, Anakin, and Owen, how is he able to make the assessment that Owen wanted Anakin to stay behind? I doubt Owen would open up to Ben and just pour his heart out for the old Jedi, telling him his deepest, most intimate thoughts.

In other words, Obi Wan never actually claims that Owen says these things. It's more Obi Wan's take on the whole situation.

The quotes from above don't sound like hypothetical notions of assumption. They have the sound of experience behind them. Like something happened, and Obi-wan was there. Of course, Lucas dropped the ball and made Ben more of a liar now...

"Like I said, that's the Owen of ANH, but we never see what makes him go from point A to point B"

In AotC, Owen only meets Anakin briefly. They spend most of their time together at Shmi's funeral. It's not a great time for Owen to discuss his dissatisfaction with Anakin's lifestyle choice. Besides, this is an opinion that develops over 23 years. It can't be shown in AotC because it (Owen's opinion) hasn't even been formed.

So he has no reason to have those sentiments.

"Owen had no involvement in Anakin becoming a Jedi, Anakin didn't abandon the farm like what Luke wanted to, we don't know if Tatooine was affected in any way by the Empire, so what was the trigger?"

Luke's desire to leave was the trigger. In a lesser way, Luke's similarity to Anakin also brought about some of these opinions (that's why Beru comments on it in ANH).

How would they know about Anakin? They only knew him for two days, yet they can see him in his son? That's an awful small amount of time to know someone and base an entire personal assessment on them.

"Owen is just an afterthought in the Prequels, and it makes Obi-wan look like an idiot in ANH."

Obi Wan in ANH obviously does not like Owen. He's basically making fun of the guy behind his back. Plus, Obi Wan believes that Luke is the 'last hope' (according to ESB). Obi Wan knows that Luke staying on Tatooine dirt farming is short sighted and not very altruistic. How does that make Obi Wan look like an idiot?

By referring to something that never happened. It makes him look like a liar and an idiot for making him look like he has no idea what he's talking about.

 

Ultimately, it looks like this is one of those plotlines that was alluded to in the OT but simply glossed over when it came to the PT. As Loco has pointed out, there are too many inconsistencies for us to believe that this was all down to Ben lying, but what else are we now to believe?

When Ben said "That's your uncle talking!" with obvious disdain, and Beru observed that Luke had too much of his father in him, it really seemed that there had been more history between Owen, Ben & Anakin than has been presented in the PT.

 

Obi Wan is the only Jedi that Owen knows and so he sees him as the repsentation of the Jedi.


So to follow Obi Wan is to follow the Jedi in general.


And I think it really refers to back to TPM when Anakin left his mom whom Owen loved like his own and he feels Anakin betrayed her. He had all that power, he could have used it to defend his family rather than some strangers in the Galaxy. (All from Owens point of view.)

And Anakin's ideals are of saving the Galaxy rather than staying home and living the simple life like the Lars.


This is why Owen is so bitter about the Jedi (And since Obi Wan is the only Jedi he knows, he bases it all on him), because he feels it is their fault for Anakin's fall by being taken away from his family, etc.


For if Anakin stayed, he would have been freed probally by the Lars too and lived on the farm and become like Luke.


And I htink the PT is like this. It creates more discussion and requires people to..I don't know? Think.

I mean what? Did you want the PT to be a mere checklist of EVERYTHING that was mentioned in the OT EXACTLY how you thought?

 

The "idealistic crusade" is following the path of the jedi and fighting in the clone war.
Understanding dialoge is not rocket science.

 

The "idealistic crusade" is following the path of the jedi and fighting in the clone war.
Understanding dialoge is not rocket science.

Sure, but the way events have been portrayed, Owen barely knew Anakin, let alone disapprove of anything he did. Ben made it sound as if there was genuine friction there - we've seen none of that. So again, I guess we just assume Ben was lying.

 

But he's not lying, he's just excegerating. And let's not forget that Owen spent time with Shmi too, she could've easily fed Anakins lifestory to Owen - who in turn, and in the end, comes to the conclusion that Luke should never follow in those footsteps.

Would it have been nice to explore these little remarks some more in Episode II - perhaps. Should whatever else happened in Clones have been sacrificed just to explore these little remarks of Kenobi? - perhaps. Is there still an episode left where this can still be made clear? - most definitely.

If you take Bens comments as some sort of sign that Anakin/Owen had a grand relationship in the past, then you're doing exactly what Ben was doing - taking what you "know" and putting your own perspective into it.

All ANH told us is that Owen doesn't want, and never wanted, Luke to follow Anakins footsteps. And that he didn't want Anakin to get involved in it.

Taking what we saw in Clones and what happened - of course he wouldn't want his stephbrother to get involved. That doesn't require a established relationship involving friendship or whatever to make it believable - all it takes is for Owen to be a good man who cared for Anakins wellbeing, why wouldn't he? Anakin's Shmi's son, his stephbrother, the man who "saved" Shmi etc etc.

- O_F

 

To me, Owen disapproval comes from loving Shmi and caring about HER well being. He couldn't have cared less about Anakin. He didn't approve of what Anakin did because of how he left Shmi to become part of a Republic and galaxy he didn't approve of. Owen, Shmi, Beru, and Cleigg are simple people. From what Shmi has no doubt told Owen and co., Ani was a simple boy too. Owen doesn't understand why a simple person like Anakin who has everything he will ever need (food, shelter, friends, love) on Tatooine would want to run off to fight in a losing battle to free people, and to fulfill a selfish fantasy to become a Jedi (people Owen don't understand). When Luke comes into Owen's life, he feels that he can make Luke what Anakin should have been. Shmi always loved Anakin more than Owen and Owen knows that. He wanted to try and honor her memory by performing acts that would make her love him more.

 

Sanctuary, once again, you answered for me, and better than I ever could. Once again, brilliant.

 

"This 'damn fool idealistic crusade' line is a good example. It could be taken as and is meant as a generalization, IMO. I feel this is Lucas' way of stating that Owen and Anakin/Obi-Wan are different kinds of people, whereas Owen is one who believes in the simple life and that one should attend to their own personal matters rather trying to affect things in the bigger picture. Anakin and Obi-Wan are just the opposites."

Let's also not forget that when Luke says that the Empire is so far away that Obi Wan characterizes that opinion as "your uncle talking". The idea that animosity exists between Owen and Anakin before the Clone Wars is not supported by either OT dialogue or PT dialogue. If anything, the only animosity exists between Obi Wan and Owen.

 

The Quote:
"BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have
this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic
crusade like your father did."

You wrote:
Obi Wan is referring to Anakin becoming a Jedi. There is no actual crusade. It is a rhetorical device used by Obi Wan to characterize Owen's views on Jedi, the Force,

RE: Hmmmm.... this is a good thread. But truthfully I don't think we will really know what happened and what ben was saying until ROTS. This is because we will see HOW Anakin gives the lightsaber to Ben or if he does, and what he says about how he wants it to go to his child. Also, becoming a Jedi is not a damned-fool idealistic crusade (in my opinion). It is simply what a Jedi is born to do. They are biologically different and meant to serve the force.
It is not idealistic to do what you are meant to.
And it should not be referred to as a crusade to be a Jedi either. BUT there is a HUGE crusade going on during the clone wars. Sidious has started a huge revolution begining at the attack on Naboo.. he has risen in power from a senator to supreme chancellor and then onto Emperor with emergency powers... powers he does not intend to give up. And in the process there is this fake war going on that disguises the real villain (sidious). Everyone believes that it is the Republic against the Seperatists... when truly the Empire is being born and the Empire doesn't care for either of the two.
Both will end up ruled by dictatorship, ruled by a SIth. There is so much confusion, so many secrets, and so much that the Jedi will face in EP 3 ROTS.

So there is a huge damned fool idealistic crusade that obiwan and Anakin will be involved in during the begining of ep3 ROTS.

We will understand then what Ben means when he tells Luke that story so sarcastically.
I love the tone in his voice.. he holds so many secrets, and yet he is patient and knows Luke will learn in time. He does give him the lightsaber and that is in homage to Anakin. He does it for Anakin.
And in the end he is helping Anakin to find his way back by handing his son his lightsaber and saying "learn about the force Luke".

......MAY CANT COME SOON ENOUGH!!!!!

Miss Gemini

 

Yeah, being or joining the Jedi isn't a crusade. It could lead to involvement in a crusade, but it isn't one. It's like saying being a member of the Dallas Cowboys is a "damned fool idealistic crusade." It clearly isn't, but if the Dallas Cowboys went off to Europe to fight Nazis for the spread of democracy, then THAT would be more along the lines of a crusade.

 

"Yeah, being or joining the Jedi isn't a crusade. It could lead to involvement in a crusade, but it isn't one."

I'm sorry, but joining the Jedi would actually be a 'crusade'. Dictionary.com defines it as "A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse." It is aligning onesself with a political organization that, in this case, champions a few 'noble' causes. Mace calls them 'keepers of the peace'. Obi Wan compliments them in his description in ANH.

 

"Yeah, being or joining the Jedi isn't a crusade. It could lead to involvement in a crusade, but it isn't one."

I'm sorry, but joining the Jedi would actually be a 'crusade'. Dictionary.com defines it as "A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse." It is aligning onesself with a political organization that, in this case, champions a few 'noble' causes. Mace calls them 'keepers of the peace'. Obi Wan compliments them in his description in ANH.

You forgot this part:

"See Synonyms at campaign."

Which tells you what kind of vigorous concerted movement" constitute a crusade:

cam·paign (km-pn)
n.

1. A series of military operations undertaken to achieve a large-scale objective during a war: Grant's Vicksburg campaign secured the entire Mississippi for the Union.
2. An operation or series of operations energetically pursued to accomplish a purpose: an advertising campaign for a new product; a candidate's political campaign.

So a crusade is more than just joining an organization, it's what's done when and if that organization is joined.

 

"So a crusade is more than just joining an organization, it's what's done when and if that organization is joined."

Yes. In this case, it means living the life of a Jedi. Which Anakin did, for a time. So Anakin was on an idealistic crusade - he was a Jedi.

 

The fact you have to generalize the word "crusade" to such an extreme only proves how weak the Prequels have been in characterizing Owen, Anakin, and Ben; it shows how the films have failed to show their relationships, to where "crusade" is made into a vague generalized notion of "being a Jedi," instead of being an actual campaign.

 

"The fact you have to generalize the word "crusade" to such an extreme only proves how weak the Prequels have been in characterizing Owen, Anakin, and Ben; it shows how the films have failed to show their relationships, to where "crusade" is made into a vague generalized notion of "being a Jedi," instead of being an actual campaign."

That has got to be the silliest arguement I have ever seen. Bar none.

I did not create the meaning of the word 'crusade'. If you look it up, you'll see that there are multiple possible meanings. You seem to have taken it as referring to a specific military campaign. Obviously, what we've seen in the PT so far is that it is not a specific military campaign, but more of a generalization about being a Jedi in general.

Blame Obi Wan for not being specific in ANH.

The films have shown all of the relationships that are suggested in the OT. In AotC we see Anakin's concern for Obi Wan as well as their friendship (elevator scene, rescue mission, Obi wan not wanting Anakin expelled from Jedi Order etc.). We see Anakin do some heroic things (crashing Zam's speeder, attempting to rescue Obi Wan on Geonosis) and show off his piloting skills (podrace, Droid Control ship).
The only person who doesn't get alot of development time is Owen, and that's because the thing that makes his character so angry in ANH doesn't happen until after AotC.

Oh, and being a Jedi is no more a 'vague' concept than serving in a military organization or religious organization. We see that the Jedi have very specific rules and lifestyles. It isn't vague at all. Not only do they have a code, but they have a governing body that they are answerable to.

 

I did not create the meaning of the word 'crusade'. If you look it up, you'll see that there are multiple possible meanings. You seem to have taken it as referring to a specific military campaign. Obviously, what we've seen in the PT so far is that it is not a specific military campaign, but more of a generalization about being a Jedi in general.

Yes, there are many definitions for "crusade," unfortunately, for them to be applied in this case, they have to be generalized drastically.

"cru·sade (kr-sd)
n.
1. often Crusade Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.
2. A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.
3. A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. See Synonyms at campaign.

intr.v. cru·sad·ed, cru·sad·ing, cru·sades
1. To engage in a crusade.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[French croisade, and Spanish cruzada both ultimately from Latin crux, cruc-, cross.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cru·sader n.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


crusade

n 1: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end; "he supported populist campaigns"; "they worked in the cause of world peace"; "the team was ready for a drive toward the pennant"; "the movement to end slavery"; "contributed to the war effort" [syn: campaign, cause, drive, movement, effort] 2: any of the more or less continuous military expeditions in the 11-13th centuries when Christian powers of Europe tried to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims [syn: Crusade] v 1: exert oneself continuously, vigorously, or obtrusively to gain an end or engage in a crusade for a certain cause or person; be an advocate for; "The liberal party pushed for reforms"; "She is crusading for women's rights"; "The Dean is pushing for his favorite candidate" [syn: fight, press, campaign, push, agitate] 2: go on a crusade; fight a holy war"

Seem to notice how the definitions all seem to lean at a specific action? What with the word "certain" in there, it means more than just simply being a member of an organization with ideals. If you are a member of an organization, that's all you are, just a member of an organization with ideals, you're just being a Jedi. If you go forth with an agenda, something to work for, then that effort becomes a "crusade." It's more specific, than what is being proported. What was the "crusade" Anakin was working for that Owen objected to?

Blame Obi Wan for not being specific in ANH.

Or Lucas for not thinking this through...

The only person who doesn't get alot of development time is Owen, and that's because the thing that makes his character so angry in ANH doesn't happen until after AotC.

And that's a part of the problem

Oh, and being a Jedi is no more a 'vague' concept than serving in a military organization or religious organization. We see that the Jedi have very specific rules and lifestyles. It isn't vague at all. Not only do they have a code, but they have a governing body that they are answerable to.

Yes, but to make that lifestyle into a "crusade," it's generalized to where it becomes an ideal rather than an agenda.

 

Let's go through this a point at a time.

"Yes, there are many definitions for "crusade," unfortunately, for them to be applied in this case, they have to be generalized drastically."

When a word has multiple meanings, those meanings are not all applicable simultaneously. It would be ridiculous to think of the 'crusade' in Star wars as being "Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims" for instance.

So, using the applicable meaning of a word is not a generalization. It is how language works.

"Seem to notice how the definitions all seem to lean at a specific action?"

Not true at all. Some of the meanings refer to a specific instance of history on Earth. Obi Wan is not referring to that, obviously.

"What with the word "certain" in there, it means more than just simply being a member of an organization with ideals."

You seem to be referring to the examples of the word in use in the dictionary as opposed to the actual meaning of the word. Let's see what it looks like without the word in use in sample sentences, as you are not using them correctly.

"n 1: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end"

Advancing the principle of being a Jedi, or living the Code. This meaning applies.

"2: any of the more or less continuous military expeditions in the 11-13th centuries when Christian powers of Europe tried to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims [syn: Crusade]"

Not applicable in the GFFA.

"v 1: exert oneself continuously, vigorously, or obtrusively to gain an end or engage in a crusade for a certain cause or person; be an advocate for"

Linguistically, Obi wan uses crusade as a noun, not a verb. If he had used it as a verb, though, this meaning would still apply. Anakin exerts himself continuously and vigorously in the cause of being a Jedi (following a quasi-religious philosophy and military career).

"2: go on a crusade; fight a holy war"

Hey look! the Clone Wars! A war of Jedi vs. Sith machinations!

"If you are a member of an organization, that's all you are, just a member of an organization with ideals, you're just being a Jedi."

Unless it is a military or religious organization. the Jedi are both.

"If you go forth with an agenda, something to work for, then that effort becomes a "crusade."

Like living out the Jedi code and working on behalf of the Republic for the betterment of the galaxy.

"Or Lucas for not thinking this through..."

Lucas was right on the money.

"And that's a part of the problem"

Not really. We know Anakin will turn out to be Vader. why would Owen like that? Do we need to see a clip of Owen shaking his head at the evil of Vader? Or can we take it on faith that Owen does not like Vader because he is a homicidal maniac (which was established in the OT already).

 

Let's go through this a point at a time.

"Yes, there are many definitions for "crusade," unfortunately, for them to be applied in this case, they have to be generalized drastically."

When a word has multiple meanings, those meanings are not all applicable simultaneously. It would be ridiculous to think of the 'crusade' in Star wars as being "Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims" for instance.

Obviously...

So, using the applicable meaning of a word is not a generalization. It is how language works.

Assuming the use of the word even IS applicable in the first place, in which case, much generalizing happens to MAKE it fit.

"Seem to notice how the definitions all seem to lean at a specific action?"

Not true at all. Some of the meanings refer to a specific instance of history on Earth. Obi Wan is not referring to that, obviously.

Like I said, obviously, but surely you'll notice how the word was used in the definitions. The word was used for something specific, a specific action. Obi-wan may not have been talking about the scuffle in 11th century Europe, but the scuffle in 11th century Europe was aptly named. It shows the usage of the word, properly since it's used to refer to a SPECIFIC INCIDENT THAT CAN BE CALLED A CRUSADE.

"What with the word "certain" in there, it means more than just simply being a member of an organization with ideals."

You seem to be referring to the examples of the word in use in the dictionary as opposed to the actual meaning of the word. Let's see what it looks like without the word in use in sample sentences, as you are not using them correctly.

No, I'm referring to the actual meaning of the word:

1: exert oneself continuously, vigorously, or obtrusively to gain an end or engage in a crusade for a certain cause or person; be an advocate for;

Like I said, note how the word certain is used, drawing attention to something specific. I'm not referring to the examples.

"n 1: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end"

Advancing the principle of being a Jedi, or living the Code. This meaning applies.

What sort of actions? Just being a Jedi and living the code? If that were the case, students are on a crusade for truth in simply going to college.

"2: any of the more or less continuous military expeditions in the 11-13th centuries when Christian powers of Europe tried to recapture the Holy Land from the Muslims [syn: Crusade]"

Not applicable in the GFFA.

Note how it refers to a specific campaign, specific enough to deserve...*gasp*...to be called "a crusade."

"v 1: exert oneself continuously, vigorously, or obtrusively to gain an end or engage in a crusade for a certain cause or person; be an advocate for"

Linguistically, Obi wan uses crusade as a noun, not a verb. If he had used it as a verb, though, this meaning would still apply. Anakin exerts himself continuously and vigorously in the cause of being a Jedi (following a quasi-religious philosophy and military career).

And you're obviously going to discount that because it denotes action beyond simply "being" something.

"2: go on a crusade; fight a holy war"

Hey look! the Clone Wars! A war of Jedi vs. Sith machinations!

Great, now show us where Owen disapproves with that and where he feels Anakin should have not gotten involved. Oh wait, Obi-wan is a liar, nevermind...

"If you are a member of an organization, that's all you are, just a member of an organization with ideals, you're just being a Jedi."

Unless it is a military or religious organization. the Jedi are both.

Unless they're on a mission or some

 

Again...

"Assuming the use of the word even IS applicable in the first place, in which case, much generalizing happens to MAKE it fit."

The word is appropriate. It nicely sums up how Obi Wan feels about Owen's response to the entire business of being a Jedi. It is in Obi wan's character to use that word, in that way. Remember, the word is filtered through that character's perceptions.

"The word was used for something specific, a specific action."

The word was used in a specific way in the general usage examples. Those sentences are not the actual definition of the word. they are merely an attempt to show how the word CAN be used. The examples for word use are by no means limiting or comprehensive.

"It shows the usage of the word, properly since it's used to refer to a SPECIFIC INCIDENT THAT CAN BE CALLED A CRUSADE."

Joining the Jedi Order is also a crusade. Anakin leaves his home, gets a haircut, trains to use a mysterious 'Force' and follows the direction of the Jedi Council. he does all of this while living by a Code of Behaviour. He enforces the Jedi's ideals of freedom on the galaxy, and undertakes military missions. It is a crusade.

"Like I said, note how the word certain is used, drawing attention to something specific. I'm not referring to the examples."

The definition refers to a certain 'cause or person'. In this case, he joins the Jedi Order and does what the council tells him to (as well as his Master, Obi Wan). Anakin specifically works for the Jedi Council. it is not ambiguous.

"What sort of actions? Just being a Jedi and living the code? If that were the case, students are on a crusade for truth in simply going to college."

Assuming they work hard while at college and focus on their studies, then yes. They would most definately be on a crusade. Stephen Daedalus is on an educational crusade (among others) in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

"Note how it refers to a specific campaign, specific enough to deserve...*gasp*...to be called "a crusade."

Almost like the... gasp... very specific being a Jedi. Or the specific... wait for it... gasp... Clone Wars.

"And you're obviously going to discount that because it denotes action beyond simply "being" something."

Look at the quote from Obi Wan. If Obi Wan was referring to the verb 'crusade' then he would have used 'crusade' as a verb. That's just basic sentence structure. Instead of "feared you would follow" (the verb here) Obi Wan would have said "feared you would crusade".

"Great, now show us where Owen disapproves with that and where he feels Anakin should have not gotten involved. Oh wait, Obi-wan is a liar, nevermind..."

Keep in mind the basic chronology that is set up in AotC. Anakin leaves the Lars household, and tries to rescue Obi Wan. The Battle of Geonosis is the beginning of the Clone Wars. Owen can't be shown in AotC to disapprove of Anakin's role because Anakin doesn't see Owen again in the film.

Again. Anakin leaves Owen, and doesn't return in AotC. After Anakin leaves, the Clone Wars begin. Owen cannot disapprove of Anakin's role in Clone Wars onscreen in AotC because the two are not together in AotC after the Clone Wars break out. Only before.

"Unless they're on a mission or something to propogate their ideals, it's not a crusade."

The Jedi enforce their ideals of peace on the galaxy. They fight to stop the CIS. They fight to keep the Republic unified. So yes, it is a mission to propogate the Jedi ideals and Republic dominance.

"Why not just say "Fighting the Clone Wars?"

There's obviously more to it than just being a soldier in a conflict. The Clone Wars are just an external manifestation of the actual crusade which is the promotion of Jedi ideology through the dominance of the Republic.

"Eh, no, sorry, he wasn't."

Should I be sorry? He was.

"He's harboring a twenty year resentment for something that happened to someone he knew for two days."

It led to the fall of the Republic, the installation of a dictator, and many, many deaths. It led to the repressive rule

 

Owen wasn't referring to a specific crusade. He only met Anakin once, but Shmi was his stepmother. She was very proud of Anakin and she no doubt told Owen all about how he had gone off to become a Jedi. THAT was the "damnfool idealistic crusade." Owen felt he should've stayed on Tatooine with his mother and not gotten involved in galactic politics. It makes sense, because look how resistant he was to Luke leaving to join the Academy.

 

I think there is a correlation between how people of the OT (such as Han) thought about Jedi "simple tricks and nonsense" and calling Obi Wan (seriously a much wiser man than Han), a "damned fool".

Damned fooled idealistic crusade, sounds to me like a line that infact, points to what Jedi do,in actuality.