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Lit The Definitive Sinre Poll Series: Was Vergere as a Sith a good retcon?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth , Sep 28, 2023.

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Was Vergere as a Sith a good retcon?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    16.9%
  2. No

    54 vote(s)
    83.1%
  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I thought it'd be good fun to revisit the ye old debates we had as younger sentients.

    So.

    Yes, and no, for all time.

    If you can justify your 'yes' or 'no', all the better!
     
    Vialco and Xammer like this.
  2. Xammer

    Xammer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Yes.

    Sith, especially Banite scheming-from-the-shadows Sith, are what makes Star Wars cool.

    The only thing lost was Vergere's NJO philosophy which was inconsistent across books to begin with (see the "Jacen and the two Vergeres" essay).
     
  3. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I happen to agree.

    Her NJO philosophy aside, it works for me. I headcanon her Sith name was Darth Traya III.
     
  4. Adalia-Durron

    Adalia-Durron WNU/Costume/Props/EUC Mod. star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2003
    I just never liked her...........no idea why, just never did.
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  5. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    For me, no. While Vergere is definitely to some extent off and is very much in the "Yoda if he actually did go crazy" mold, I think that her as a Sith does not fit the narrative.
     
  6. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Besides, we only have Lumiya's word Vergere was a Sith. And that story about the "good" Sith was just putting lipstick on a pig so she hoped that Jacen wouldn't notice the pig.

    Palpatine did a better job of preparing Anakin. Of course, he had over 10 years to refine his methods.
     
    Slater, Dawud786, Alpha-Red and 3 others like this.
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Ah yes, Darth KFC.
     
  8. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I never saw her as a true Sith and consider the retcon a lie of Lumya.

    Sith don't become the same kind of force ghosts as Jedi.

    Gesendet von meinem Nokia G22 mit Tapatalk
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  9. Xammer

    Xammer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2009
    To me, that was a wasted opportunity. Vectivus as a Sith with a strong moral system and as an aspiration for Jacen would have been an interesting idea to explore instead of just the standard diabolic temptation.
     
  10. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    No.

    No, no, no, no.

    No.

    No.
     
    Slater, Riv_Shiel, Ghost and 4 others like this.
  11. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    No In both canon and legends I think the Sith should be dead post ROTJ
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  12. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Not to get too off-topic, but I was under the impression that Vectivus didn't exist anyway.
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  13. Fettster

    Fettster Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 7, 2003
    It was an early part of my ultimate abandonment of the last few years of the EU before the Disney reboot brought me back, so I'm gonna fall on the side of no here.
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Hard ****ing no. Lumiya merely used her memory to turn Jacen. Anything else completely misses the point of her arc in Traitor.
     
  15. Dream-Thinker

    Dream-Thinker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2020
    Reading up on her, I think she's more interesting as a Baylan Skoll-esque Dark/Fallen Jedi then a Sith. But that's just my thoughts, full respect for any who disagree.
     
    Zorrixor likes this.
  16. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2013
    This. There's no topping Palpatine. We've got, what, five or seven thousand years of history leading up to the movie era in which the Sith were a thing? That's plenty of times to tell stories about the Sith. Let them culminate with Palps, and then find something else to move on to.
     
    Alpha-Red likes this.
  17. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    So you are saying that Lumya is a true student of Vergere's teachings :p
     
    QuinlanSolo and Dream-Thinker like this.
  18. Lady_Belligerent

    Lady_Belligerent Queen of the RPF, SWC, C&P, and Pancakes & Waffles star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2008
    I find the lack of Vergere love to be disturbing. [face_plain] She’s easily in my top 10 favorite dark side characters.
     
  19. clonegeek

    clonegeek Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2022
    I think the One Sith worked though
     
  20. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Vegere’s always been the one retcon I never really got behind.

    SWTOR? It took time, but I came to enjoy that. The Vegere retcon though always hit me the wrong way as LOTF was the Post-ROTJ-Sith story, it didn’t need NJO to be another Sith story, and I found what Vegere offered a breath of fresh air.

    She didn’t need to be right anymore than Baylan in Ahsoka does, but it was just nice to have a foil to both the old Jedi and Sith ways, to push Jacen into pushing Luke’s order to grow, not go backwards like ended up happening in LOTF, as turning it into a carbon copy of the PT was narratively uninspiring.
     
  21. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I just headcanon that SW ended with the NJO. So...LOTF never happened, and this isn't an issue :p
     
  22. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Now, what Jacen saw (particularly his daughter or Luke regarding the dark man or the throne) during his 5 year journey? I can accept that as a major push towards him becoming a Sith.

    After all, Jacen was definitely not the same person during the Dark Nest Trilogy. Pre-Traitor Jacen wouldn't have tricked Jaina and the others into that preemptive strike on the Chiss, and I don't think even immediately post-Traitor Jacen would have done so.
     
  23. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    I agree. But I wouldn't call Vergere a darksider. She's beyond both sides.

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  24. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Six of you are bad and you should feel bad.
     
  25. Dream-Thinker

    Dream-Thinker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2020
    People are allowed their opinion.