ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

I'll be honest, I have a very hard time imagining that anyone but Abrams was responsable for the story beats we got in TFA. I don't think the anyone above him had any plan for what they wanted, and from looking at what we got it seems like they just said "here you go" to the directors and let the do whatever.

Now, maybe Abrams had it in his head that Rey was a Skywalker (or a Palpatine, or a Kenobi, or a Stark, or a Lannister, or a Kennedy) but then its all on him for not setting it up for sure or for not at least letting Johnson know and co-ordinating with him so that they did'nt come out with visions that completly conridicted each other. Ditto for if he had it in his head that Ben would be reedemed (which I doubt given how he presented him in TFA) - the fact that Abrams knew what was TLJ's script and did'nt do or say anything, however, would indicate to me that even if he did have some assumptions he really was'nt invested in them enough to make sure they were carried through with.

I agree with the sentiment, but there is no romance in the films - just a kiss at the last minate that exists only to pander (not that it makes it better, it actually makes it worse, becuse at least if their had been a romance the kiss would'nt have come out nowhere)

Agian though, I don't any of what we got in TROS was LFL but rather just Abrams - they seemed all ready to go with DOTF, after all, until outside forces conspired otherwise.

Sure. In hindsight you can say that. But when the OT came out (or when it is viewed in isolation) that's very much not that case.

Lucas's has been saying he had some grand vision from the start for years, even before the PT came out, but even the slightest scrutinity that breaks down and it becomes clear that any sort of plan was originally fairly broad-strokes and did'nt materlize until after ANH came out and was and did'nt crash and burn into a million peices like a Podracer at the Boonta Eve Classic.

He had more of a plan then Disney, and was willing to be creative unlike Abrams, so I'll definatly give him props for that though.

 

I enjoyed the ST, but I think they missed out.

 

I recall there were some tweets from Pablo (which I obviously can't access now that he's locked his account) which essentially confirmed that Kira and Sam were the children of Han and Leia, and that Luke would be childless because Jedi of course can't marry or have children.

e: Luckily, someone posted the tweets in a thread here and I was able to find them:

Ben Skywalker‏ @BenSkywalker3
Was there Ben Skywalker

Pablo Hidalgo‏ @pablohidalgo
There was not.

Mindflayer‏ @Mindflayer0
Same question applies as before however, was his existence retconned in the scripted or would he have simply not been part of he films?

Pablo Hidalgo‏ @pablohidalg
He did not exist given what Luke's storyline was in Lucas' starting point. That is, Luke did not get married or have children.

...

Pablo Hidalgo‏ @pablohidalgo
Chewie wasn't dead. Han and Leia had different children. Luke never married.

 

Yes, but what's the point of having rules if you can't break them?

 

I have them archived here.

Mizzlewump (and other rumors) had it with the female lead as the Solo daughter and the apprentice villain as a mystery box. But it looks like that got swapped to the female lead being the mystery box and the apprentice villain being the Solo son and by time Johnson in the sequel and then the third movie came along the concept abandoned altogether.

J. J. Abrams: “There’s as much a brother-sister thing with Rey and Kylo Ren [in Star Wars: The Force Awakens] but also a romantic thing. So it’s not like literally a sexual/romantic thing, it’s more like they’re bound together in this movie in a spiritual way. Again, felt romantic to me.” (December 23, 2019) (archive)

 

Every time I read that it somehow makes even less sense.

 

He's either pandering to everybody or Kathleen Kennedy wanted one thing (romance no relations) and he wanted another (siblings). And I mention this specifically because it's been reported Kennedy wants to do Rey and Kylo Ren all over again but now with a black cast.

Kay Oyegun To Script ‘Children Of Blood And Bone’ For Fox/Disney; Looks To Be First Lucasfilm Pic Project That Isn’t ‘Star Wars’ Or ‘Indiana Jones’ (August 6, 2019)

 

Oh, I'm sure this will all go over spectacularly.

I mean, such a thing can work narrativly (falling in love with the enemy, that is), you just need to put the effort into it and intend it to be the case from the start, but its not the easiest thing to pull off even when your trying to do it.

 

Didn’t know where to put this.

 

The "Children of Blood and Bone" project (and books they are based on) sound very interesting. Unfortunately, critics and moviegoers are not at all kind toward anything new so it will probably fail like Mortal Engines. Sad.

Ironically, Rick Fumuyiwa was rumored to be making a movie for Disney called "Sade" which was going to be an original African-princess based movie with magic that had a similar plot prior to the rumors about this one. Interesting.

Falling in love with an enemy can work as long as the enemy doesn't directly assault the other.

 

I think the answer lies in that 'dyad' ('a power like life itself'), and in Rey's mother.

This dyad is something unprecedented, some kind of siblinghood-in-the-force which does not depend on blood. Rey ended up adopting Anakin as her grandfather in a 'spiritual' way, and maybe that makes sense precisely from that spiritual POV.

Again, Rey's mother, and maybe Anakin got involved at some point. 'I warned my young apprentice that as I grew stronger his equal in the light would rise'. 'The seed of the jedi order lives'. Ben needed guidance and was sent to Luke around the time Rey was born. Maybe the seed of Kylo Ren was made to cause Rey, by connecting Ben Solo and Rey's mother. Ben's equal in the light was made to rise. Abrams called the skill download thing 'spooky'. Ghosts are spiritual and spooky.

About the mother: Abrams' spoke of these two houses, the Skywalkers and Palpatines. Skywalker is a jedi lineage (Anakin>Luke>Rey) and not a house; but Skywalker was a part of the Naberrie house. I wonder if Rey's mom was a part of it, even without being a Naberrie. Sabé, for example, who little Anakin once took for Padme.
Naboo. House Palpatine and house Naberrie.

 

I am currently 40 pages into the Trevorrow script and I'm loving it.

 

In the script, he killed Rey's parents. So he protected Rey from Snoke; that little girl could have destroyed Snoke. This was years before Kylo Ren. Ben Solo, Rey Solana.

 

I read this script leak, its still a weird storyline but more inspired and more of a direct sequel to TLJ . Their version of Mortis is not the same as the one on TCW which is awkward, seems they wanted it to be Star Wars but also tell their own story. The Eclipse Super Star Destroyer is the same one from Dark Empire almost, which interesting since JJ and Terrior eventually fall back to Dark Empire for their own version of the movie.

The Hologram of Palpatine acts as a sort of evil Obi Wan from the OT, with Tor Valum being the Sith(species or god?) Master - which is like the evil version of Yoda which was used for Old Master Maul on Malachor when Ezra first meets him. I think this script's story also got canned cause Filoni was using the same ideas on Rebels, whether he plucked them from Trevorrow(drafts) or vice versa I don't know - but they seem to have been in production at around the same time as Rebels seasons II and III which is suspicious. Reminicore is set up like Malachor was for the Season II finale, instead of Maul and Ezra, its Tor Valum and Kylo on Remicore and later Rey acting as a combo of Kanan and Ahsoka.

The Sith Holocron with its ligtning attacks Kylo, but on Rebels it activated the temple with purple lightning. Kylo blinds Rey with a lightsaber strike to the eyes and face, which was like Maul blinding Kanan . Mortis would again be re-used on Rebels with the World Between Worlds idea. Rey blindfolds her eyes which is similar to Kanan using the Jedi Temple mask with the fighting blind with the Force against Maul.

The Nights of Ren are given a much larger role in Trevorrow's scripts, but I think the other script I would like to read with Dathomirian Sollony Ren. But the Darksaber wielding Hattaska Ren is also interesting, seems they re-used this idea for Gideon on The Mandalorian.

 

I don't think that would be an issue - Disney owns both, and if their been a problem with Trevorrow using ideas that had things in common with Rebels (either purposly or on accident) I'd imagine they would have told him.

 

In August of 2015 Trevorrow was onboard, so his ideas or whatever the case had to have been known to Storygroup, but they could have pitched in ideas too. If there was a nefarious thing occuring this could be like rather espionage and embezzlement of ideas and a creatively bankrupt production outfit. It could help partially explain why they are losing so many writers and directors over "creative differences" or being fired,lol. Also explains why the ST is little more than a requel and keep recycling the same materials from the OT and PT or even prior new movies. There is a certain stagnation present whether its corporate or the circular and repetitive nature of the Star Wars franshise which would hurt it long term as there is only so many times you can repeat the same beats, the same story, the same characters in different ways and expect the audience to like it . In any case too many coincidences and problems I think .

The Battle of Coruscant alone seemed like it would be very expensive to produce, probably over $200 Million. Remicore and Mortis sound really expensive too.

Tor Vallum also sounds very similar to Valorum the Master of the Sith from The Star Wars rough draft and also Tor Vizsla(EU) which is interesting oddly. The use of "The Star Wars" being referenced and Bendu also signifies a clear inspiration from Lucas' original (The) Star Wars drafts. Bendu makes an appearance as a weird creature on Rebels while in this script Bendu monks which is closer to the original ideas behind them while Tor Vallum is the weird creature representing the Sith(Bogan an early alt name). The Knights of Ren also take on a more Knights of the Sith/Sith Knights from Lucas' early story.

Even how Rey damaged Kylo's mask is very similar to how Ahsoka damaged Vader's helmet in TOTA season II finale.

Certain ideas from this script do explain why Trevorrow and Connolly was given a credit, since ideas and similarities do make it into TROS however altered.

 

Tor wasn’t a Sith. I’ve posted this 2-3x.

 

Also Jaedec Ren and the other Knights use the hands on the glass to Force decipher and track where the heroes are going which is very similar to the Jedi Fallen Order's Inquisitor.


Lettow, in this script he's definitely supposed to be thee Sith Master - but he also dies like putz in this script(basically its like evil version of the Bendu, another weird character like Snoke and the phantom Emperor):

Spoiler

Tor's end:

Spoiler

 

"Master of a Sith Lord" does'nt equal "Sith Master."

This could make sense if he's just some ancient being whose intellegence and highly-knowladgable in spiritual things and the arcane; he dies like a bitch becuse he's just smart and learned, not actually powerful.

And let's all remember that Palpatine of all peaple died (the first time, lol) by being picked up and thrown down a hole like a load of dirty luandry at the top floor of a swanky hotel.

 

And Palpatine’s line is ambiguous. He doesn’t flat out call TV a Sith Lord, but that’s how I infer it. And the initial reaction was TV was Palpatine’s master, breaking canon. Perhaps Burnett misspoke as he was summarizing or the summary of his broadcast on Reddit was mistaken. TV being a Sith Lord in an of itself stil breaks canon with 3 Sith Lords alive at one time with Plagueis and Sidious and then Sidious and Vader. His being 7000 years old would also appear to break canon, unless he’s a surviving Sith species Lord who cheated death and perhaps killed the Sith Master prior to Plagueis.

That said, he tells Ren that he’s no master and the name of Plagueis means nothing to him. He also mistakenly identifies Ren as a Sith. Would a Sith Master make such a mistake? Nor does the script refer to him as a Sith. Burnett in his second episode concluded he’s not a Sith. So to me he’s no more a Sith than Mother Talzin, who taught Palpatine some Magicks. TV can teach Force Vampirism. But he can’t even defeat or protect himself against Ren who lost to an illusion of Vader. And the real Vader should be the one to turn Luke, not TV, whom Vader didn’t know of.

 

More then two Sith in and of itself does'nt break an canon rules - it only violates the rule of two, an in-universe creed; we already had three at once when Maul was running around during and after the Clone Wars, possibly four if you count Savage.

Though it does'nt matter becuse if he had been a renagade or compatition the others would have killed him, rather then learned from him.

Perhaps his "vampirism" keeps him alive? (the Force drain that Palpatine uses in TROS, which probobly evolved from that concept, does revitalize his appearence). Barring that, he could just be some ancient Force enitity like the Bendu or an alien whose races lives 7000+ years.

Honestly, the concept behind the charecter is very intriquing to me, and I hope they make use of him in some way or form in future works.

He could have simple trained Plagueis under anouther name (Hego Damask?) before the latter adopted his Darth title, or maybe he just does'nt give a crap about what the Sith call themselves

 

Rule of 2 is canon. And being a Sith Assassin or Inquisitor doesn’t make you a Sith Lord. And while apparently Tyrannus is training Vos to help him take down Sidious, the Rule of 2 would be broken only to be reaffirmed after the death of Sidious—or of Dooku or Vos.

 

But nothing in-universe prevents peaple from breaking the rule; we know this becuse we see it in action. It would make them challangers at best and illigtimate at worse, but only in the eyes of the Sith that do follow the Rule of Two; Maul did'nt stop becoming a Sith Lord just becuse Palpatine thought he was dead and replaced him with Dooku, after all, he still had the knowladge, training and mindset that made him one - ditto on Momin, who was'nt somehow magically not a Sith all of a sudden when he was revived just becuse the Sith adopted a new creed in the years since he died that stated only two could exist at once.

I mean, not that it matters, becuse as you've rightly pointed out Vallum is'nt actually stated to be, and does'nt seem to act like he is, a Sith Lord.

 

Well no since the script is clear, Tor Valum was supposed to be Sidious' Sith master and master of the Sith Lords. And at 7,000 years old, and all of that kinda thing, its perfectly feasible that he trained many Sith Lords and some sect could've diverged on its own, but Tor was its source. Burnett's script leak review also has Tor as Palpatine's Sith Master... so I think the Rule of Two was not set in any sound firm foundation but was more or less a Sidious thing or Lucas thing. Or maybe this did not sit well with Lucasfilm and it was one of the contributing reasons this was rejected, but I have to say it has a strong similarity to Atha Prime from Kenner's pitch back in the 1980's. Lucasfilm seems fond of the old Kenner stuff and for them to eliminate Dark Empire to just decide to remake it ultimately just not seem like they know what they're doing anyway.

But as far as this script, they seem more to be using Palpatine's dialogue from his chamber and not the opera, "My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the dark side." Palpatine initially attempted to pass off Plagueis as an old Sith legend, that could be interpreted as a creation myth or simply creation of Palpatine or someone else since its main design was to lore in Anakin . for all we know about the Sith could've been lies and myths since the Council beleived there could only be Two, but its also unclear how they knew that since that was Darth Bane's edict and he and the Sith were not known to be alive since the Jedi believed the Sith extinct for a 1,000 years prior to TPM.

However this character is not canon so it does not matter much so not sure why some are angered. Tor (or JJ variant the Oracle) could be used at some point but I don't personally think Plagueis would be altered and replaced like it was done here.


Now Tor's dialogue is typical Sith speak, and there is an aura of omnipresence about the benign but malevolent character but thats really it. Now it is a weird and throwaway character with no development and dies without much screen time not unlike Snoke in TLJ and the phantom Emperor TROS . Maybe they were trying to tie-in with the Zeffo species and storyline and the Fallen Order game at the time - as the Tor creature looks very similar in the concept art to that alien species. And the Zeffo had an interesting use and knowledge of the Force and vast civilization and influence according to the game.

I think the idea with the character was to re-write and play around with canon lore as they were looking some kinda key to unlock their story and resolve everything so instead of Palpatine it was Tor. Plagueis did not seem very important outside of the defunct EU, and aside from the little bit in ROTS and Luceno's throwaway line in Tarkin still not much to go on. For this script its basically Sidious lied about Plagueis during the opera, or the audience misinterpreted the old Sith legend dialogue. So instead of all the Sith Eternal stuff and "I am all the Sith" line there was just Tor Valum Master of the Sith Lords. This script and TROS also creates more questions than answers, which has been plaguing Star Wars for a while.

 

We know that in-universe it's something that's been in effect long before Sidious came along (though if Vallum were supposed to be 7000 years old he would in turn pre-date it, so there is that).