THE DICE

One of the older theories that this board has generated was that Qui-Gon didn't not influence the cube to come up his color, but compensated for any tampering Watto may have done.

I'm not saying that I believe this or endorse this, but as this thread is about the Chance Cube(and NOT about the morality of Qui-Gon Jinn), I thought I'd bring it up for all of you.

~ DS5

 

no, i def think he used the force to make sure his color came up, jinn was the cheater in this case and watto was the honest one, in my humble opinion, of course

 

As I said, it was just a theory generated long ago that I thought was appropriate to this thread.

However, what about the scene in general makes you so certain Watto was the one in the wrong? ?

~ DS5

 

i dont understand yourlast post

 

What about the Chance Cube scene makes you(or anyone for that matter--I'm just asking) think that Watto was the one who got tricked?

~ DS5

 

by him not complaining . it could have went either way. he could have cheated and kept quiet also .but QGJ to me here is the cheater .he had more of a reason to cheat.

 

Well, it's one thing to use a weighted cube, which we aren't for sure Watto was even using, it's another to use the mystical energy field that surrounds us, binds us, and keeps the universe together to cheat on a bet, which we see Qui-gon do. Qui-gon, as mentioned before, doesn't check the cube before or afterwards, and we don't see any indication of Watto needing to use one, both on screen or logically, so there's no proof showing Watto as the cheater, but we do SEE Watto as the cheated.

 

Judging from Watto's reaction after the dice turned up in Jinn's favor he was very upset that he might lose Anakin. He was spitting and fluttering about and generally pissed off. I can't tell whether or not this is Watto just being Watto, but it did come across(to me) as indicating that Watto wasn't expecting the loss.

However, Jinn did have a lot to lose on the race. He put a tremendous amount of faith in Anakin. If he had lost the race, Qui-Gon and his entire company would have been stranded, rather permanently, on Tatooine. Also, recall, that Watto lost much more than the boy on the race. He placed large bets, possibly LARGER than the cost of a slave, that Anakin would lose. I would say he lost much more from those bets than he did with Qui-Gon. If you are correct and the Chance Cube was NOT altered, Watto obviously didn't think much of either of his slaves.

~ DS5

 

well written loco.

 

of course watto would show some feelings .he lost a bet thats natural.

 

As for using the energy field that binds us together, Qui-Gon obviously believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. This is the key figure in bringing balance to the Force, so I think that using the Force to aid in bringing the Chosen One to his destiny, and even teach a lesson about NOT gambling to Watto, was generally the sensible thing to do, if perhaps not the completely moral one.

~ DS5

EDIT: effortless, I think you're missing the rest of my post up there. I did mention OTHER items besides that.

 

Well, then again, if he really was the Chosen One, to borrow a slight concept from the Matrix, the will of the Force would have turned the "Chance" Cube in favor of Anakin. If Qui-gon truly had faith in the boy and the Force, there would be no need to intervene as destiny and the Force would make it so.

 

I take it that the "Will of the Force" was what made Qui-Gon influence the cube.

I suppose it's all a certain point of view.

But, if we want to get a little technical: the will of the Force has been described only as something that is "spoken" to the Jedi. The only action we've seen the Force accomplish on its own is the creation of Anakin Skywalker. No other evidence has been presented otherwise. It seems reasonable to assume that Qui-Gon "heard" the will of the Force and acted upon it to carry it out.

~ DS5

 

Well, then again, there is "no such thing as luck" in the Star Wars universe, so anything without the interference of Force users would be considered the Will of the Force. If Qui-gon had left the cube alone, then the result would have been what the Force allowed it to be, just as any other roll would have been. If Anakin were meant to go, the Force would have made it so, and Qui-gon would have known that.

 

>>>As for using the energy field that binds us together, Qui-Gon obviously believed that Anakin was the Chosen One. This is the key figure in bringing balance to the Force, so I think that using the Force to aid in bringing the Chosen One to his destiny [...]

But surely the energy field that conceived Anakin on Tatooine and had guided him that far doesn't need to be manipulated by Qui Gon to "bring the Chosen One to his destiny"?

Ever wonder why, after Qui Gon has manipulated Anakin's destiny, but before Anakin has had any sort of personal contact with the Dark Side, his future is already "clouded"?

>>>But, if we want to get a little technical: the will of the Force has been described only as something that is "spoken" to the Jedi. The only action we've seen the Force accomplish on its own is the creation of Anakin Skywalker. No other evidence has been presented otherwise. It seems reasonable to assume that Qui-Gon "heard" the will of the Force and acted upon it to carry it out.

It seems to me that Qui Gon has decided that the Chosen One is to be trained as a Jedi, for whatever reason.

If it was the Will of the Force that he was trained, I would expect at least one other Jedi to pick up on it. (And I would expect the Chosen One to be conceived somewhere he would have been 'detected' and trained by the Jedi at a younger age...) But instead we get;

Yoda: "Trained as a Jedi you would have him? revealed, your opinion is."

 

NICE!!!!



i have the proof right here.watto himself proves it .that he didn't cheat .look at watto after he losses the pod race .he is clearly fustrated and shows many emotions.whatto's feelings are on full display here.he even call's qui gon the "cheater".he says how could i lose!!!! .now i would assume IF watto used weighted dice.in the what i will now ,refer to as the ROLL.he would acted the same way.if he knew he supposed to win.he would have questioned that ROLL also .he just acted as if he lost a fair bet nothing more .also anakin and shimmy were the same value to watto.people think that watto knew anakin was the "chosen one".it's not like he was gambling the "chosen one" that would be a bet watto would not make .he would not have betted with the stakes that high.watto is not stupid..he gambled A SLAVE BOY AND SLAVE WOMAN .either one of them is a loss to watto. but can be easily replaced.it's obivous ,look how quickly .shimmie was sold after TPM.it's nothing but money to watto. a slave is money.and money can be easily replaced.and i assume, from anakins freinds they may have been slaves also .so slave boys are easily replaced also.


anakin's life was affected from the start .him becoming a jedi was not natural.he was born of the natural force,yes.and everything up to that time .had been going the way it was supposed to be for him.he could have still became a jedi .QGJ landing on that rock was FATE .QGJ did find the "chosen one",yes .but he made the wrong CHOICE for the "chosen one".if anakin was ment to be a jedi. it would have landed on blue no matter what.cause it was supposed to happen.to be honest .i think it was destiny for QGJ to die when he did..he could not train the "chosen one" .he would have been the worst master for him.even thoe QGJ found him. obiwan ,i feel would have been a better MASTER for anakin.he would have been powerful under QGJ,yes .but he would have been out of control with QGJ as his master.more so than obiwan.everything revolves 360 what goes around comes back.the force was altered heavily.what jinn did could be called a FORCE crime.he did not have the right to do that.if yoda would have not done that. what gives jinn the right. i feel plo kloon would have acted better than jinn on tatoonie.

 

I think you are assuming a bit too much. If anakin was meant to be a jedi, why didn't the force make him be born on a planet in the republic? Besides, ultimately, whether the cube was rigged is not really important. Qui used he force to make sure the best result came up. Would it have anyway? Maybe. But he just made sure it did.

I guess my biggest problem w/ this whole thing is in its implications...

1) Qui is a cheater
Cheaters are generally believed to be bad people and to "cheat" for their own selfish reasons. Qui personally had little to gain by him winning, he did it all for the force and the jedi. That hardly makes him a cheater in the generally understood sense of he word.

2) Qui abused the force
I think this all comes down to viewpoints and rigidity of thinking. If I asked you if cheating is wrong, stealing is wrong, and defying your elders is wrong, you'd say yes. This would be from a tradtionalist POV. However if I asked you if a man stealing a piece of fruit to feed his starving child is wrong, I would think the answer is no. This is very muc the same w/ Qui. He does what he feels is best for the greater good. He just goes down a different path. That hardly makes him a bad jedi...

Like I said , I think hbis own major mistake was to basically force Obi to train Anakin. They are almost 100 percent opposites

 

>It seems to me that Qui Gon has decided that the Chosen One is to be trained as a Jedi, for whatever reason.

The fact that 'whatever reason' is never revealed or hinted at bugs the heck out of me the more I think about it.

 

I think some of you are throwing the mythic references to predestination out the window with your arguments against Qui-Gon. Everything that happened in TPM happened for a reason, and that reason was in ROTJ: Anakin Skywalker throwing Emperor Palpatine down the Death Star shaft. If the TF didn't blockade Naboo...if R2 hadn't fixed the shields...if Naboo hadn't been near Tatootine...if Qui-Gn had gone to a different dealer...if there hadn't been a sandstorm...if there was no Boonta Eve race...and IF Qui-Gon hadn't used the Force on the Cube(one way or another).... There's so many "ifs" in TPM and all of them contribute to bringing Anakin Skywalker to the Jedi Knights, which is the hypotenuse of this entire saga: the rise, fall, and redemtion of Anakin Skywalker through his offspring.

As an aside, I feel that Qui-Gon saving a slave's life so he might live out his dreams somehow might give him some credence in altering the outcome of the chance cube.

~ DS5

 

[image=http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/snapshot/1999/06/img/chance_bg.jpg]

From the official Site.

Watto's chance cube -- totally balanced, of course -- is thrown whenever the Toydarian feels like letting "Fate" decide of an outcome.

 

I've been here long enough to know that the subtlties of that description will be used by either sides of the coin to prove their point. It seems that the author IS trying to point out that it was weighted, but than again it doesn't come right out and say it.

~ DS5

 

Watto says why don't we let fate decide. If fate had decided, the dice would've shown red, and having more red than blue on the dice is just a little 'symbolism' from GL. Red is the colur of evil in the saga, and left to fate, evil would be the boy's future. With Qui Gon's intervention, blue comes up, and the boy's fate is shifted onto the path to good.

But later, A sith kills Qui gon, so that particular Jedi's influence on Anakin's future dies with him. The pendulum has swung back in fate's favour.

It would be in character for Watto to have a weighted dice, even if that didn't literally mean the dice was unevenly weighted in physical terms. The dice is 'weighted' in favour of red simply by having more red than blue faces, so the dice is both representative of character and a symbol for the fate of Anakin too.

 

The dice is 'weighted' in favour of red simply by having more red than blue faces

Why do people keep saying that there are more red faces than blue? It's a 'chance' cube to have an unequal number of red:blue sides makes no sense whatsoever. Am I missing something from the film, cos it looked to me like it had 3:3 ?

 

the cube was equal .it was a true chance cube .the roll was totally fair