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The Emperor's Pawns article (was: Gamer #5 stuff @ TOS!!!)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by jedimasterED, Jun 28, 2001.

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  1. Cull_Tremayne

    Cull_Tremayne Jedi Master star 2

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    Jun 27, 2005
    With Otias as his Jedi Master? As well as mastery of the force, Otias desired perfect acting! As for the mystery man, I think it works much better for the Brandls to have recruited him. I don't think Hethrir wanted to fight against the Remnant, he only wanted to revitalize it. You know what would be a cool fix? Remember Jaalib's second in EoD? Mmmmhmmm Of course the picture of Durrei seems to show him with long dark hair and Bane Werth had white hair that was closely cropped. Of course Durrei's head is pretty well hidden under that cloak...

    Unfortunately this hurts my theory that Bane Werth is actually Set Harth. However, how's this for a fix? Someone found Set's clone stash (I think there was an RPG adventures surrounding that kind of search, could be mistaken though) and had the clones destroyed. So Set goes to Brandl to help him find a new body... This would totally fix the hair color thing too. If Callista was able to change Cray's eye color... [face_thinking]

    Did we ever find out how Palpatine learned the whole clone transfer method? I just assumed some holocron, but maybe Harth was involved?

    Totally fanon timeline :p

    1. Set Harth discovers the secret of "immortality" with the cloning method.

    2. Palpatine comes across Set Harth and learns from him the inferior clone transfer method (inferior in relation to Plaguies' vision of immortality). During this ordeal, Harth eventually becomes familiar with Adalric Brandl.

    4. Palpatine dies

    5. Set Harth's clone stash is destroyed by Alliance agents

    Somewhere around here the Brandls form the Protectorate and Durrei has his run-in with the relic

    6. Set Harth knows that he will soon die if he doesn't have another body, so he contacts Adalric, informing him of his situation. In exchange he promises to serve the Protectorate. On the look-out for Dark Jedi as potential hosts for Harth, one of the Brandls contacts Durrei to help "serve" their cause.

    7. Harth possesses Durrei, and takes the name "Bane Werth" as a cover.

    8. The events of Emanations of Darkness

    You know I finally figured out who that "petite young woman" with "raven black hair" that hangs on Adalric's arm at the end of EoD probably is. Alex Winger. Of course her appearance in the Hand of Thrawn duology messes that up a bit...maybe that's how she lost her fingers? :D

     
  2. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    Howdy folks! A little later than I'd planned, but delivered extra fresh and juicy, here's the next installment of the Emperor's Pawns Endnotes:

    The Emperor's Pawns Endnotes, Part 4: Mistress of Teräs Käsi

    I'm just being difficult. Honestly, I don't remember if the identification of Adalric as a former Jedi was my idea or part of the sometimes haphazard editing that was done by the Gamer staff on The Emperor's Pawns (other examples include a reference to Lumiya and Flint fighting *against* the Nagai, a big chunk cut out of the Maarek Stele bio, and of course, the complete substitution of the Blackhole entry).

    I'm pretty sure Palp learned it from either Ashka Boda or the holocron he carried, a.k.a. the Bodo Baas holocron. But the coincidence with Set Harth is pretty great.

    Take care,
    Abel
     
  3. Lord_Hydronium

    Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 11, 2002
    I haven't read any of these EP endnotes before, and this is fascinating stuff, seeing how many and what variety of sources get pulled together to make one storyline. And not to get all fanboy here, but I gotta give some serious props on creating the backstories of some of these characters basically from scratch. All these characters and their stories open up by a ton with the one article (Grand Admirals and Evil Never Dies are two other articles that stand out in this aspect for me).

    Something I was struck with reading the original Shira Brie arc, and now this, is how far the character has come from her origins, and how little anyone could have predicted it. You mention basically dragging her up from obscurity, and it's pretty crazy that even then nobody would have expected she'd become one of the main villains of a novel series. This really is a continuity built on the backs of everything that came before.

    EDIT: On that latter aspect, I'm surprised the possible Sith-Vong connection has gone so relatively unexplored since then.
     
  4. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2003
    Say Abel, is there any truth to the speculation that Inquisitor Ameesa Darys is named after Amy Sedaris, or is the similarity just a coincidence...? [face_thinking]
     
  5. HedecGa

    HedecGa Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 19, 2006

    Couldn't have said it better myself. This, to me, is why Star Wars is so amazing.

    Great endnotes, Abel! It really made my day!
     
  6. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    Wow, good call. Seems way too close to be mere coincidence.
     
  7. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    As much as that's a staple of my Star Wars writing, I think I was in a particular frenzy when writing The Emperor's Pawns. My concern was less clarity as it was cramming in as much continuity as possible, because quite frankly I didn't know if I'd ever get another shot at this. I've learned to be a bit more balanced in my presentation since then.

    No, no, please do. :)

    Thanks! It'll probably come as no surprise that I'm chiefly interested in character. As long as I can get into characters' heads, I'm a happy man. With the Grand Admirals, of course, Dan and I had a field day, because almost nothing was known about them, save that they were some pretty bright boys.

    Exactly, Lord. And now we see the Legacy version of Lumiya through the same eyes, which is as close as really a shared universe comes to producing what we might call a continuity miracle. There are other versions--Sate Pestage, officially mentioned only for an instant in the Official Empire Strikes Back magazine, and now perhaps Lord Shadowspawn with his upcoming appearance in Shadows of Mindor--but no out-of-universe evolution is perhaps as impressive as Lumiya's.

    We'll see what LFL let's me do with Vongerella.

    Well actually, that's one I don't know the answer to. The name of that Inquisitor was another change that happened in the editing process. But here's an interesting fact: originally, Ameesa Darys was supposed to be male, despite the name. (Remember, Nasdra Magrody was also a male, as was Marka Ragnos). However, when I wrote the Dark Forces Saga, because I'd made Jerec's master a woman (Jocasta Nu), I thought it'd be cool to make his padawan, Ameesa, a woman after all as the name seemed to imply.

    My pleasure. :)

    Take care,
    Abel
     
  8. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2003
    I can't claim ownership to the observation, though. Pablo pointed it out once in a thread here, a while back. :)
     
  9. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

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    Jan 31, 2001
    I'd been looking forward to this one, mostly because I had no idea what parts of Arden Lyn's background existed before you came into the picture, Abel. Great job working all those vague and obscure bits and pieces together.

    By the way, dissident leader has cyborg sidekick kidnap Palpatine? I never thought it was believable, but now with Revenge of the Sith in mind, it seems like there must have been something more behind Zaarin's coup...perhaps Sidious planned the whole thing...

    And because I'm so interested in the post-Yavin timeline, I was interested to see your suggestion that the video game might take place during the Marvel comics. Care to elaborate? I'd placed it right after Galaxy of Fear: The Hunger because of Boba Fett's involvement, and I'd also seen the suggestion that Lyn just caught up with the heroes of Yavin during various points in the original trilogy, (because of the movie backgrounds in the game) but that doesn't seem likely.

    TC
     
  10. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    Hmm, in that case, perhaps it was even Pablo himself who'd been responsible for that particular edit.

    The short answer is, not much, though, as always, I borrowed a little from here and a little from there.

    Pablo actually taught me a good rule for writing in Star Wars that's served me well. In any succession of continuity references, for every two recycled elements, make up a third. Sometimes I bend this rule depending on how obscure the references I'm making are, as a source known by 0.1% of the fan population might as well be the same thing as creating a new element.

    But as a perfect example, take the Inquisitors who confront Arden Lyn: Tremayne (GG9), Torbin (SW Sourcebook), Ameesa (new).

    Funny how the prequels have made certain storylines more palatable. Ironically perhaps for some, I actually feel the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise quite overtly foreshadows Dark Empire, and this is even more acute in the novelization, which I believe is no accident. Of course, as a fan of The Last One Standing, I considered "Outbid But Never Outgunned" blasphemous before Attack of the Clones came out, and look how that turned out.

    The so-called Imperial Civil War from TIE Fighter and the Stele Chronicles is one of the cooler unexplored elements of the Rebellion Era. I agree that Palpatine's kidnapping by Arden for Grand Admiral Zaarin might've seemed a little far-fetched since we don't know the precise circumstances of their arangement, but imagine how the Emperor's kidnapping came off in the original sources when a powerful Force-user like Arden wasn't even in the picture.

    Good points, and I suppose it depends on how much of the game's elements we choose to incorporate into continuity. Luke, after all, appears with his Return of the Jedi wardrobe and lightsaber, Leia as Boushh, but these are utter improbabilities in a pre-Shadows of the Empire time period ... which seems beyond the chronological scope of Teras Kasi.

    As for Boba Fett, well, we know that Jodo Kast is an unlockable character in the game, so who's to say the "Boba Fett" in the storyline wasn't actually Jodo in disguise? While I haven't thought about the scenario very far beyond what I wrote in the blog, the idea I was driving at was that it's possible Arden and her thugs are "off-camera" in The Wheel storyarc, in cahoots with the Imperials in those comics. During the course of the gladiator contest, Arden and Co. then would've been among the fighters. As for the various backgrounds of different worlds in the Teras Kasi game, these then may have been mere digital re-creations to give color to the combat for the entertainment of Wheel patrons.

    Take care,
    Abel
     
  11. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    You mention basically dragging her up from obscurity


    Obscurity? Everything I knew about her (before I decided to get the Marvel comics) is thanks to Genghis, who made sure all of Lit was aware of Shira Brie and Lumiya. :p
     
  12. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

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    Jan 31, 2001
    >The short answer is, not much, though, as always, I borrowed a little from here and a little from there.<

    The point is, though, that you did use every little tidbit of information already availible, which, I know from What's the Story, is tough to do. I like the 2 to 1 ratio of old/new elements--keeps things fresh and interconnected at the same time.

    >I agree that Palpatine's kidnapping by Arden for Grand Admiral Zaarin might've seemed a little far-fetched since we don't know the precise circumstances of their arangement, but imagine how the Emperor's kidnapping came off in the original sources when a powerful Force-user like Arden wasn't even in the picture.<

    Very true, and kudos for using establishing events that made sense within the context of the game. Tie Fighter being a space combat game, sticking the die-hard hand-to-hander Arden Lyn in offscreen makes perfect sense. She can plausibly kidnap the Emperor (at least in the same way Grievous could) without upstaging the game's hero Stele, because they have completely different combat abilities. Well done.

    >As for Boba Fett, well, we know that Jodo Kast is an unlockable character in the game, so who's to say the "Boba Fett" in the storyline wasn't actually Jodo in disguise?<

    A good suggestion, though since they seem to be two separate characters in the game, I think it could go either way.

    >As for the various backgrounds of different worlds in the Teras Kasi game, these then may have been mere digital re-creations to give color to the combat for the entertainment of Wheel patrons.<

    I like that idea. The only problem with this senario is that Luke and Leia aren't involved in the gladitorial contests in the comic. A similar storyline would work, though.

    TC

     
  13. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    Or, we can look at their presence as simply part of the "what-if" element of the game mechanics.
     
  14. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    That's right, Genghis was a huge defender of Lumiya. I rephrase, Lumiya was well known of among the Lit Boarders. :)

    It can be tough, as you know, but that's what we do all the time in real life, no? Sure, there's folks who put their heads in a hole in the ground when they see something they don't like, but somebody's gotta deal with that stuff out there. Then, of course, there's people who try to kill anything they don't like.

    Exactly. Sometimes people are surprised when I make something up, and will tell me they're positive they've seen something like the Azurite Society of Lords or the warlord Zakrinand Minus in some source somewhere before. I do try to keep inventing new nouns down to a minimum, because I think the Star Wars universe is so vast that somebody has usually written about something you're planning to use. Need an abberant clone? Well, here's Spar from Geonosis and the Outer Rim. Need a serial killer? Look no further, here's Kardem from the Tales comics. I mean, it's almost bewildering. I remember thinking Halla from Splinter of the Mind's Eye would've been a perfect substitute for an elderly woman character that appears in one of the Hand of Thrawn books.

    Thanks. That is always the name of the game with retcons, credibility. I have to admit, I never did quite buy Mara's "there was nothing between Lando and me" bit. [face_mischief]

    True. I only suggest the possibility of making it only Jodo Kast if necessary because it could work that way and, again, credibility issues.

    I'm not necessarily advocating the Teras Kasi storyline and The Wheel storyline be lumped together, but just to make the point plausible, while Leia and Luke don't fight in the Wheel storyarc, they technically don't *have* to fight in Teras Kasi either. Just don't pick them. Again, there's the plausibility factor, at least if we insist on this ready-made retcon; it should be enough that Luke and Leia are in the Wheel storyarc and dealing with the theat of Arden Lyn too, even if only tangentially.

    Take care,
    Abel
     
  15. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    Um, yeah, what he said. :)
     
  16. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

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    Jan 31, 2001
    >I do try to keep inventing new nouns down to a minimum, because I think the Star Wars universe is so vast that somebody has usually written about something you're planning to use...I mean, it's almost bewildering.<

    Is that the way you usually come up with those awesome throwaway references, think of something you need and then pick a preestablished element to fit the bill?

    >I remember thinking Halla from Splinter of the Mind's Eye would've been a perfect substitute for an elderly woman character that appears in one of the Hand of Thrawn books.<

    Oooh, which one?

    TC
     
  17. Eyrezer

    Eyrezer Jedi Master star 3

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    Aug 4, 2002
    Lol, anyone in particular? [face_cowboy]
     
  18. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Oh, if you're planning to play with more obscurities, I'd really like to see more done with the Order of the Canted Circle. :D
     
  19. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    I'd guess it almost has to be Moranda Savich. Both are elderly, both are con artists, and both have an eccentric joie de vivre about them.
     
  20. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    It was only on my last read-through of that that I realized Moranda was the same Moranda from the Darkknell short story.
     
  21. Cull_Tremayne

    Cull_Tremayne Jedi Master star 2

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    Jun 27, 2005
    Of course I was just joking. :p I've always found it fun to find flaws in "late-comers" from the pre-prequel (is that a word?) era, and blame it on them not getting training early enough. I find the parallel that the Jedi desire a perfect age and a certain upbringing for their recruits to begin training, while Palpatine doesn't care about the age, and only commands that his followers serve him faithfully, to be a fun thing to ponder. On a somewhat related note, can we assume that Everen Ettene subscribed to Djinn Altis' train of thought by taking an older Padawan in Ventor? [face_thinking]

    So body transference could possibly be a Jedi technique? [face_thinking] Cooool.

    I think I got lost here...is this saying that the leader of the exiles in the First Great Schism was...never even trained by the Jedi? I never would have imagined a non-Jedi leading other Jedi, but now that I think about it, that's pretty cool. The character of Xendor is slowly shaping methinks... That charismatic devil. :p On a related note, for the term, "Legions of Lettow", does the word "Lettow" have any significance? I know it's a reference to an earlier Star Wars script, but is it anything now? Is it a place? A person? An idea?

    Additionally, I just have to ask about the reference to Flint in The Emperor's Pawns. According to the article, Flint was sent by Lumiya to kill Luke Skywalker, correct? I'm wondering if Lumiya may or may not have really believed Flint was capable of doing the job. From the comic, we can see that Flint eventually has Skywalker at his mercy (thanks to a precisely placed stormtrooper blaster shot, who would've thought? :D), and it seems the only thing that stops him from destroying Luke is the arrival of Barney. So he may have had the ability to upend Luke.

    Obviously as revenge for her disfigurement, Lumiya wanted a showdown with Luke; however, in No Zeltrons Lumiya only asks about the location of Leia. So what are your thoughts on this, did Lumiya have faith in Flint to come through or was she always planning to take Luke down herself?
     
  22. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    I guess that might technically be how it works, but, and I don't think I'm alone in this, the mental correlation between understanding what I need and a character/event/weapon that fits the bill is often immediate. It's less often the case that I come up with a context that is just too cool or necessary continuity-wise, like "abberant ARC Trooper!" which I just won't let it go and will actually hunt for a suspect to shoehorn into the idea. More often, the process is far more organic, and if I can't immediately think of an element that fits my continuity AND storytelling need (and I have a considerable backlog of minutia that I have ready for recall), then my mind will immediately move on to consider another storytelling/continuity permutation that's potentially equally cool and can get the job done.

    Take the Assault on the Death Star boardgame ref from The Dark Forces Saga Part 1. I thought, "I need at least three or four Rebel Force-sensitives and as many as six (though that seems like overkill). I need one to turn to the dark side. I don't want to use Luke Skywalker. Who fits?" There were a lot of choices, but Kyle Katarn always seemed a natural fit, as did Shira Brie, and Corwin Shelvay as the organizer of the bunch. I needed one more, and Erling Tredway hadn't seen action for ages, so I threw him in there. There were lots of other choices besides Tredway, but in this scenario, I wanted to use someone from a source that is on the margin of continuity (Jedi's Honor) to give that book more credibility. I also wanted the character to be potentially expendable, since Kyle and Shira certainly aren't at that point in the timeline.

    Well, it's totally understandable. ;) 2 out of 3 times you would've been right.

    Bingo. This was before her appearance in Interlude at Darkknell, of course.
     
  23. Halagad_Ventor

    Halagad_Ventor Star Wars Author - SWRPG Designer star 4 VIP

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    Jul 3, 2001
    Well, the truth is Everen actually lost a bar bet to Obi-Wan, and wound up having to take Halagad as an apprentice. That sneaky Obi-Wan thought it was pretty funny until Everen died and he ended up picking up the slack. Slapstick ensues!

    Certainly a Jedi discovered (or re-discovered) technique, but forbidden, like mortichro.

    That's basically what I'm saying. When I came up with the character, I thought of Xendor as an outsider coming in and shaking up the Jedi Order with his foreign ideas about The Breath (aka, The Force) and other cultural differences. He may have become a Jedi before all hell broke loose, but I'm not sure I would even go that far, personally.

    It certainly is, but like Xendor in "Minions of Xendor," we'll have to wait and see what it specifically signifies.

    Not actually. However, Evil Never Dies does say that explicitly.

    It's a good question. While Lumiya wants revenge against Luke at this point, I think the pursuit of power and a sense of purpose impress upon a person the importance of delegation of duties. Let's put it this way, Lumiya was probably confident that Flint *might* be able to kill Luke Skywalker. If he could, good, and if he couldn't, then onto the next scheme. Evil is practical. However, she probably didn't anticipate the intervention of Barney, or Flint's possible redemption.

    Incidentally, an observation about Barney's intervention. While it's true that Luke may have been defeated by Flint but for Barney's intervention, we might say that this kind of speculation is non-sequitur. Of course Barney was there to save Luke, because it's Luke's character and goodness that creates the conditions for him not to have to rely solely on himself to win the day; in this case, he pivotally drew Barney to his side in a critical circumstance, as he did (again) similarly his sister in Dark Empire. This Karmic shield is part of Luke's power too, and in that context we understand that Flint in fact never had a chance of winning, as ultimately neither does evil.

    Take care,
    Abel
     
  24. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

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    Jan 31, 2001
    >This Karmic shield is part of Luke's power too, and in that context we understand that Flint in fact never had a chance of winning, as ultimately neither does evil.<

    =D= Well said!

    TC
     
  25. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    -"So body transference could possibly be a Jedi technique? Cooool."

    -"Certainly a Jedi discovered (or re-discovered) technique, but forbidden, like mortichro."


    Actually, according to Ultimate Adversaries, Harth learned the technique from a Sith artifact...
     
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