Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Strilo
, Jan 15, 2018.
Hopefully those issues with the DNR will be eliminated with a new 4K transfer.
It was done because of the 3D release, not for any perceived consistency, of which there's none since ROTS does have grain. Artificial grain, but grain nonetheless. It was added because the digital picture from the new camera they used was considered to be too sharp and the grain helped mask that sharpness and give it a more filmic quality.
Im pretty much satisfied with the Blu-ray versions. Apart from that, I'd hope for ALL the deleted scenes to make it on the bonus discs-all together. Other than that the enhanced resolution is really the only thing I'd look 4ward to for the PT.
Well it seems very likely that the 4K releases are happening in the first half of next year with The Digital Bits listing I-VI for next year both individually and as a saga set presumably I-IX but maybe Rogue One and Solo in that set as well as individual releases?
Obviously those 3D versions of the PT aren't likely to come out until they perfect full vision goggle-less 3D.
Nothing that new to talk about but since it seems a done deal as expected this is not a surprise to be sure but still a welcome one.
Lucas did oversee and/or set in motion the 3D PT and 4K OT but I wonder if he had any involvement in the 4K transfers of the PT?
Did they even complete AOTC or ROTS in 3D? Not that I care. I am not a 3D fan.
Yes they were shown during at least one Celebration.
Interesting. I didn't know that.
Ep II was shown at Celebration Europe II in Essen, Germany. Been there, saw it (due to its the Country i come from). Ep II looked stunning in 3D, so many great Scenes where the effect was used greatly. Of Course the Speeder Chase was one of those Scenes (as the Pod Race in Episode I).
Ep III was shown at Celebration 2015 in Anaheim. I didnt saw it because I wasnt there. That was the last we saw of the those Editions of the movies.
I hope for the 4K Releases of those movies to include all of the deleted Scenes we got so far plus the stuff left out. Iam especially interested in the Padme/Obi-Wan Scene in Ep III where they discuss Anakin and the relationship between him and Padme. Ist set before Kenobi leaves Coruscant for Utapau and the Scene of Anakin and Padme where he says "Iam not the Jedi I should be" reffers to that lost Scene. Its the one Scene I was hoping to geth with the Bluray Release back in 2011 and still waiting for it to see it. They've teased it so much during the production of Ep III with showing some Moments of it in some making of web material and sharing a Picture of it in the "Before the helmet" series.
EDIT: One more wish(ful thinking): Ep III is a Extended cut featuring all those Delegation of the 2000 Scenes which where added as a Bonus to the DvD. In context of what was shown in The Clone Wars with Bail and Mon Mothma, in Rebels with them AND Rogue One where they even got the same actors as in Ep III that would make the Formation of the Rebellion full circle for me.
I wouldn't count on 4k releases being anything other than the versions that wound up on Blu Ray. AKA CG Yoda in TPM, the DVD/Blu Ray additions for AOTC and (I think) theatrical release of ROTS. I don't see them releasing newly expanded versions of any of the six Lucas films.
Thats why I said: wishfull thinking
I remember there was a rumor from Devin Faraci back in 2015 that a 4K version of A New Hope existed that was essentially the Blu-ray version but with small tweaks, including a new CGI Jabba and Han again shooting first. But that never made sense to me. If there are further tweaks, that would imply George Lucas was involved. But if George Lucas was involved, I can't imagine him ever reverting the Han scene, especially since he was still vehemently defending the change in an interview that same year.
Nothing about that story added up to me.
That is the story. It's my understanding that George Lucas oversaw one last definitive round of changes on all the movies before he left. Faraci heard some of the details and expected those new versions of the OT to be what the online digital versions would be.
But at that time 20th Century Fox still owned the rights in some ways to the movie. A lot of those were set to revert to Lucasfilm around 2020. So they were probably waiting for that before releasing them on home video.
Anyway, from the scraps of info I've pieced together I think Lucas went through all the films on a nearly frame by frame level to make notes for one last round of cleanup in preparation for the the 3D versions of the each film. It would appear we've already gotten the final cuts of the prequels on BluRay.
What was not finished in 2011 were the new 4K transfers of the Original Trilogy. The BluRays still use the source transfer that was made for the 2004 DVDs. Apparently a new super HD restoration was done on the OT and one final round of Special Edition changes.
Word is that Greedo no long shoots at all. Apparently Gareth Edwards is on record as having seen this new 4K or higher transfer of A New Hope. There are other reports that this new restoration has been on going since about 2010 until today. Also the company that make the most recent super HD transfer of the Indiana Jones films that are shown in theaters and used for the BluRays, had a demo reel on Vimeo that included newly transferred Star Wars and Empire footage.
I've heard the color grading is dramatically better. There is real grain, not the fake stuff on the BluRay. So overall the picture quality looks amazing and is quite different from what we are used to on the DVD and BluRay. Not sure what new changes are added to the movie. Supposedly lots and lots of matte line cleaning up. Maybe even more elements digitally re-composited.
Other than the Greedo bit, I've heard nothing about what other changes were made.
Except what if he didn't revert it but changed it up to yet another version? One based on the very original version of the scene where Greedo says in dialogue in so many words "I'm going to kill you".
Lucas' point was that he added seven frames to show Han didn't kill Greedo in cold blood. There are other ways to show that besides Greedo missing his shot from across a table. Visually it just looks terrible and that Lucas did in for the 97 version then adjusted it for 2004 and 2011 shows that he knows it didn't work despite how much be tried.
Maybe that was a double project with his frame by frame book project? Do the one then make notes for both.
The first two versions did look pretty terrible. The Blu-ray version is fine, though. It goes by so quick now that it just looks like Han coolly dodges it.
But yes, making it undeniably clear through dialogue that Greedo is about to kill Han is one way of solving the problem. I think Lucas was always more concerned about how it looked, though.
Yes but that the current version is the least terrible looking is still...terrible looking.
Why not fix it once and for all? I wonder if you could work it that you see Greedo start to pull the trigger but not actually shoot because Han is too quick. Have the gun move to indicate this then we see Han's shot.
Yes! Agreed!! I'm wondering if Frames was a secondary by product of Lucas reviewing the movies. So not only is he taking time to make his final cuts with a detailed examination of each film, with very little extra effort a book can be made from the process that will generate extra money. Also it's a nice cover story if needed for why George Lucas is rewatching his movies frame by frame in two hours chunks each week. He's not make new movies, or new versions, he's making a book. (I think originally the 3D rereleases were going to tie into a Lucas helmed Episode 7.)
The Blu-Ray version is quite smooth. It's a nearly simultaneous draw. It's like Greedo knows he's beat and fires early just to get the shot off.
I sort of doubt Lucas would go in and reedit the scene. It's possible. But I'm not aware of any reedits that weren't Special Effects motivated since some minor tweaks in the '97 version. Stuff like blaster shots in A New Hope were cut down. Return of the Jedi actually had the most edits to the actual content. With little changes throughout Jabba's palace and at the end celebration. I think Boba Fett's bit with Han over the Sarlacc was tweaked a tiny bit for the 2011 BluRay. By and large the editing has not changed.
I guess that doesn't mean anything for future cuts, but the Special Editions intent seems to be adding new content and cleaning up Special Effects. Not to reedit the structure of the orignal edits.
That said, the Greedo scene was appareantly reshot before Star Wars orignal release to include bits from the then deleted scene with Jabba the Hutt. I highly doubt this, but it's possible the scene with Greedo in this final cut is altered to it's orignal version so there is less overlap with Jabba. But probably not.
I'm wondering if George Lucas already had the idea of Solo: A Star Wars Story bouncing around in his head and that's why we might see the scene changed back to Greedo not shooting. Word is Lucas is the one who actually got work started on Solo before the Disney sale. Originally it was going to be the second new Disney film, but the Kasdan's work on The Force Awakens pushed it back.
Lucas's version of Solo was reportedly way different than what we got. Kasdan straight up said he had no interest in it and wrote his own story. The whole Han shooting first thing in Solo seems to be entirely a Kasdan thing.
Like I said, Lucas was still defending the change in a Washington Post interview from 2015:
“Han Solo was going to marry Leia, and you look back and say, ‘Should he be a cold-blooded killer?’ ” Lucas asks. “Because I was thinking mythologically — should he be a cowboy, should he be John Wayne? And I said, ‘Yeah, he should be John Wayne.’ And when you’re John Wayne, you don’t shoot people [first] — you let them have the first shot. It’s a mythological reality that we hope our society pays attention to.”
He also seems to allude to it in James Cameron's Story of Science Fiction from 2018:
"[Our shared] mythology, the last step that it had taken was the Western. The Western had a real mythology--you don't shoot people in the back. You don't draw first. You always let the woman go first."
He doesn't seem to have changed his mind in the slightest.
I almost wonder if what happened is that Devin Faraci's source saw the 4K version that has the same extremely fast cut that the Blu-ray version has, but simply mistook it for Han shooting first. That doesn't seem likely to me either, but it seems more likely than Lucas having a change of heart. I guess we'll see, though.
I bet your right. That makes so much sense. I don't think most people are aware that we've gotten three different Special Edition versions of the Original Trilogy and continued to be improved. The BluRay cuts are definitely my favorites.
It turns out Greedo shooting didn't both me so much as how terrible Greedo shooting looked in 1997. The 2011 version is fine by me. Visually it's so close to the orignal. It's probably still too much and not needed, but it's not bad. Doesn't bother me at all.
I actually quite like Jabba since he was updated. The '97 version just didn't look or more like Jabba. The 2004 looks like Jabba to me. It could be more real, but it's just fine.
If they would fix the issue with R2 and the Rock when Ben first appears in Ep IV that would be the perfect version for me. So make the rock appear in EVERY shot OR leave it out completly!
I never understood or liked that Change because of ist inconsitency.
I recently watched the Phantom Menace on Disney+ in 4k and I have to say, it looks damn good. Much better even than the Blu Ray. Issues I remember even in theaters with grainy or soft shots were all fixed. The colors look more rich and vibrant than ever before. Even the test digital camera scene footage where Qui-Gon tests Anakin's blood looked better than ever before. It suffered previously from crushed blacks and a weird sort of low res look to the colors, but that is much improved. The blacks still look a little crushed, and the footage doesn't quite match the rest of the film, but overall TPM looks great! My marathon continues soon with AOTC and ROTS in 4k, which I will be sure to post my thoughts here.
Yes, please do let us know - I don't have access to a 4K player unfortunately.
AotC and RotS both look good in Disney+ 4k, but they look the least improved of the saga. There's only so much you can do with the upscale, whereas TPM is noticeably improved and the OT film look better than they have in years.
Which was my original thought when creating this thread... the digital camera of AOTC and ROTS was lower res than 4k so how could they look better?
My understanding is that upscaling to 4K can still slightly improve the perceived quality of HD content. But the more noticeable benefit would probably be improvements in color reproduction made possible by a 4K set.