The films belong to Lucas/The films belong to the Fans

We've really gotten far off topic. Let's try to bring it back into focus. There's been lots of threads over the years to discuss whether the PT is any good or whether one group of fans is in the majority or not, but that's not what this thread was designed for. It doesn't answer the question as to who SW belongs to, in philosphical terms: one man or to the many?

As to the original topic, I have come up with a new angle to discuss and hope to post it tomorrow.

 

I can't help but think that it's paranoia and lack of attention that motivates Lucas. Lynn Hale flat out stated that actual film elements exist, it's just that they're in "bad condition" which could mean anything. The '93 telecine is horrible looking anyway, so I really don't see what LFL's case is. In any event, I think enough signs point to the originals finally getting the treatment they deserve on dvd later this year.

You have a very good point, though. The way in which Lucas has handled all the bad press doesn't speak very highly of him. More and more these days I hear about how bitter he is that people don't like the SE's, and it's puzzling that he comments on other people's comments at all when he's suppossed to be "the artist." What he doesn't seem to get is that all he has to do is swallow his pride for one second, acknowledge that the originals exist and just remaster them.

 

not that star wars isnt a work of art, but not in the same vein as a painting

a painting has no potential to gain revenue by being updated, letting Andy Warhol paint a can of tomato soup in the bottom corner of the Mona Lisa isnt going to have the dollars rolling in for anyone

star wars on the other hand does have this potential, and so it will be exploited in this manner. in this sense star wars is not a work of art but a franchise, even an industry of its own. this also means GL is not an artist but a CEO

that having been said, even large corporations that are traded publicly on the market, and thus technically property of the masses, dont run each new idea past each stockholder

i am thankful to GL for his vision and effort and gift, but he is still a monger, who of us isnt. and just because i bought a DVD doesnt make me anything more than a customer, if i dont like the updates i can keep my original VHS copies and stay in the darkages forever

 

I believe GL listens to the fans. I may be one of the few fans that believe this, but the idea of him being some arrogant CEO who cares nothing but money has been created largley in our huge SW sized imaginations.

I would like to see fans have a good time with these movies with out it turning into an SE, PT, or O-OT battle.
I like all of them because I like the universe. Nothing really makes me angry but when people try to convince other people that something isn't good, well, that just gets me goin'.

The lack of effort put into the OT in the past 10 years was due to the PT being made. Now that the PT is over he can get it right with the Saga now, putting the O-OT remastered into dvd format, letting out better versions of the SE, doing this that and the other to the PT, etc.

If I'm wrong, well, what's new...

 

Mr Smithers: "sir we have just finished reworking the opening crawl to the original trilogy, what would you like us to do now?"

George Lucas: "Excellent"...."repackage it as the new ultra enhanced version and tell them we have added 4 hours of bonus material"

Mr Smithers: "but sir we only reworked the opening crawl."

George Lucas: "those fools will buy anything if you put STAR WARS on the box, its all going exactly as planned"

Mr Smithers: "exactly as planned sir?"

George Lucas: "yes Smithers"..."a nip here a tuck over there"..."at this rate i can go another 20 years without having to put an original idea on film, i can make billions more, and best of all they will still call me a genius."

Mr Smithers: "well done sir"

George Lucas: "SILENCE"..."now bring me that gizmotron sitting on my nightstand, its time for me to block out the sun...."

 

MOD EDIT: Post removed. Flames unwarranted, and off-topic.

 

Well, Jamie's gone. Ignored my warning about getting off-topic and flamed. Who's next... or would we rather get back on topic?

 

i didnt see it but jamies flame was surely in response to my shots at Lucas/Burns comparrison

probably my fault on the off topic, i was just responding comically to someones respone to my respone that i had posted...initially. if that makes any sense heh

my bad

"its real velour, come on let yourself go" (Zapp Brannigan)

 

thedigitalbits just updated with a rumor regarding the saga boxset that may or may not have the restored, remastered unaltereds in it, and it might not even be happenning this year.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html#022307

Maybe the films will continue to "belong" to LFL until the '06 GOUT discs are officially obsolete.

 

Fine line between humour and putting words in people's mouths. No offense meant, dude, but that Mr Burns post was kinda borderline slander. Lets keep it a clean fight fellas!

I'm with Darth Stryphe - BACK TO TOPIC! *points at topic header*

 

hero_of_canton, no, Jamie was responding to someone else, but yes, please keep on topic. NZPoe, slander's kind of strong, I assumed it was sarcastic. I just want people to get back on the topic and play nice.

Now, if I can just finish getting my next post ready for this thread...

 

Both

 

I'll tell you something,

back in October of 2004, unwrapping the dvd boxset from its wholesale carboard packaging and going through the discs one by one on, the things I wanted to look at the most were the new changes.

This is why chapter stops were invented.

I went straight to Mos Eisley, the new cgi landspeeder, the new Jabba cgi model. On to Empire, I checked out Ian's Emperor Palpatine with the added Vader dialogue and Temuera's Boba voice. Finally there was Jedi with all the digital alterations to Sebastian Shaw's face in addition to Naboo and Hayden Christensen in the end celebration.

As soon as I got done watching the new changes I just went straight to the bonus disc and watched Empire of Dreams. Then at some point I sat down and listened to the three audio commentaries.

I basically look at the '04 dvd's the same way I look at the extended edition dvd's of the Lord of the Rings movies. They're bonus material, nothing more. The real movies are the unaltereds. Now, back in '04 George said the originals were never seeing the light of day, but the dvd's had enough extras to keep me distracted since I was really looking forward to ROTS.

A couple years later came news that he'd changed his mind and the unaltereds were seeing the light of day, but there were two things that should have tipped me off to the huge catch that had yet to be revealed:

1) LFL said it would be state of the art, 1993. Yes, well, I just asumed it would be from an actual film element made in 1993, not the 1993 telecine for crying out loud!

2) they would be sold individually. Yes, well, I thought that was wierd because why the hell would we not want to get all three but then I figured oh, they just want to be able to sell them individually for once.

Then the non-anamorphic laserdisc bad news hit. That didn't stop the official site from amping up some hype over the fact that the "unaltered versions that we basically lied about not existing are being released in a transfer that's sourced from a really outdated tape that's been lying right over there on the shelf since 1993. Why didn't we just destroy that along with all of the actual film prints Lucas claimed to have destroyed, you ask?"

And there still hasn't been an answer. When a film festival wants to show a print of Star Wars as part of a 70's film festival but they can't simply because "George doesn't want them to" and the AFI can't show any clips besides the SE when they rate Star Wars as the 15th greatest movie ever made, I don't think there's any question about these movies still being under the control of Lucas.

It's not enough that the films still exist and as of now only in the form of a shoddy laserdisc transfer. If they aren't given the treatment they deserve, future generations will forget about them as Lucas continually biases his arguments around the the films being merely a work in progress and the SE's his evolving, never-truly-finished version. If he would just stop beating around the bush and remaster the things like we all know he could do at the drop of a hat, we the fans would have a whole lot less of a problem. He could just keep revising the movies as often as he wanted and it wouldn't matter since we'd all have a good quality release of the unaltereds.

If the originals are eventually remastered and put out on dvd, I'll say better extremely late than never. Until that day comes, the films are at the mercy of Lucas.

 

lawnmowerman603,

No offense dude, but what part of the thread topic don't you understand?

There are MANY other threads within this board that allow people to complain about the diminishment of the "original versions". There is no need to repeat yourself here where it does not add to the discussion at hand.

Pretty please...stick to the topic.

It will be highly appreciated and I'm sure many people here are curious to know your stance on the topic, not on your distaste for the SE's.

 

On the contrary, I thought I was staying on topic by stating why the films still belong to Lucas.

 

It would've been, but this paragraph:

...kinda torpedoes your intention just a little.

 

Hey, NZ. Do you want to read my reply to our discussion of last fall? It's 13 single spaced typed pages long, so consider before answering. Given the lenght is why I hadn't posted it yet.

 

How do you figure? I was trying to illustrate how the movies still belong to Lucas. I never once said that it was a good thing.

 

Hmmm... I come back here, see I was given a flame warning - and I can'r even remember what it was. I'm sure it was witty, chock full of colourful euphomisms and the like, as usual. But since no one can hiccup here without being scolded for 'straying off-topic'...

Pay attention, folks, this is me killing the argument once and for all...

For better or for worse, the fact of the matter is, the films belong to George Lucas. The films do not belong to us fans. If they did belong to us... where's my profit cut?

 

To all the people who say George should not alter his movies, and they belong to the fans, shame on you! He made us Star Wars! He can do whatever he pleases.

And about the un-altered DVD's... I don't undersand why anyone would want them when we have the new versions anyway. Even if these un-altered versions were re-mastered to crystal-clear perfection, the "belong to the fans" people would still be complaining when these versions were not included in the saga boxed set. They won't be. In Lucas' mind, they are unfinished art and it would be a pointless waste of time, money and effort to polish a piece of art that needs to be changed.

The film belong to Lucas... Period.

 

No argument here.

 

Jamie, you were banned for ignoring my warning about off-topicness and flaming (the later being more the reason). If you find that funny and witty and seem to think it is or should be appropriate behavior, I would recommend going to find a different SW message board.

And regarding your profit cut, it's not Poppy's fault you didn't sign up for your share. And besides, he already stated this was more a philosphical debate than a legal one. Obviously GL legally owns SW (this was stated in the opening post), but since SW will outlive GL and his ability to determine who controls the rights, there is a bigger philosphical question to be asked. If that's not a question your interested in discussion, go post elsewhere.

To everyone else, this is not a SW vs. O-OT thread or a thread discussing the 2006 DVDs. I suggest everyone go re-read the opening post before posting further in this thread.

 

I was banned?

Guess it was when I had the flu.

 

"but since SW will outlive GL and his ability to determine who controls the rights"

Will it? Can't he will the rights to someone or have in his will that no more SW films can be made? There has to be some kind of legality he can use in his will to control how SW will be used (or not) after he dies.

Jamieflamie, you rebel scum

 

I can't even remember what I said. Oh well. JediQueen, you of all people know that I'm harmless...