ST The Force Awakens vs The Last Jedi

I love both. I know TFA feels like ANH 2.0, especially the destruction of SKB. And SKB was DS3. And I find the physics of SKB ridiculous, but it’s SW.

I loved the slow start with Rey, the picking up the pace with the Rathars (autocorrect, you is suck!), Han, Snoke the Bloke, and Ren. I think JJ and LK did a great job considering the problems with Iger and Horn hamstringing them with a short schedule, jettisoning Lucas’s story, and Arndt being too much a perfectionist. TFA set up this trilogy better than TPM, but that’s because with the PT Lucas wanted to keep many things held back until Act 3–ROTS. I think he succeeded with the PT in having 3 self-contained films that made up one story, but I’m in the minority here and one problem I think is that people wanted ROTS to come sooner than it did and were impatient. ANH originally was not part of 3-act structure. Lucas may have had a contract with TCF (RIP) for 3 films and signed Hamill to 3, but he had no idea if he’d make sequels and many vague ideas that never even made out. I mean, his script for TESB resembles Splinter how much? And when we heard there’d be a SW2 we waited while rewatching TESB and then we had to wait 3 years for ROTJ. With the PT we waited 16 years for TPM and had to another 6 for a payoff whose basic ideas we knew of.

Like ANH, TFA feels more self-contained, unlike TPM, which to me is an obvious 1st act and this was a bit disappointing until AOTC answered a few questions. I loved AOTC because of its story and execution and dialogue and acting. GL was a bad writer of dialogue, but when he did THX-1138, he got others to help him and the dialogue didn’t matter in his dehumanized dystopia. For Apocalypse Now he got Milius and for American Graffiti he got Katz and Huyck, who also script doctored dialogue, almost the entire 3rd act of ANH. But it was still this dialogue that he wanted and the acting style he wanted. He can do naturalism, hired acting coach for Graffiti and the cast developed chemistry off and onscreen.

But I digress, not a first for me. TFA is self contained as much as a first act can be, like ANH. This ST may feel directionless, but so was the OT. GL spent 3 years working on the script, onset included. At what point did he come up with SOTME? 1976? It resembles TESB how much? You can see a much stronger thread in the development of ANH and from outline to final cut of the 1977, and even there’s a huge difference. But with TESB?

That said, I feel disappointed. We already know GL’s stories are somewhere with the Ark of the Covenant. And to Iger’s credit, he appears to be honest in his account. Still don’t like it. And though we are impatient, maybe 3 years between films is better.

And now for TLJ. I love it more than TFA. Did I have some reservations? Yes. Why only, what, a day after TFA? Seems better for a streaming service series. Why such a limited trajectory? I mean, in the OT and PT we get 4 years and 13 years of story and with the ST we get how much? But within the narratives it makes sense, though it lacks the epic scale that I expect of a Saga. But I feel the stories and execution of the ST are excellent.

I have some other issues.

The dialogue and acting are (relatively) naturalistic. Yes, Finn is portrayed by a fan of Olivier (me, too), Ford is Old School Hollywood transported into a modern idiom, and Hamill admits not to being a Method actor. But these characters come across—for a matinee, science fantasy—as real people compared to the live action comics we got with the 6 GL films we got. It’s jarring how non George this is.

Also, as one poster here commented after TFA lost its newness, TFA feels like we’re always on planet Earth (doesn’t mean I don’t love Jakku and SKB, especially the snow and destruction). And GL did shoot on location, but as JJ said when he was making ST 09, Lucas set the bar high with world building with the PT.

With Crayt and Canto Bight RJ creates very imaginative worlds, but R1 and Solo win out here for post-George.

Sorry. Random thoughts.

 

I prefer TLJ far more than TFA. I think certain elements in TFA are better than TLJ. I think JJ does a better job emulating the kinetic energy and chemistry between the characters similar to the OT but RJ made a film that felt like a new entry in the saga. TFA just feels very perfunctory for most of its runtime. The only things I truly love in episode 7 are Rose and Finn particularly in the first third of the film. Once Han lands on Takodana my mind starts to check out especially on repeat viewings.

 

*oops meant to say Rey and Finn.

 

I prefer TLJ, but I really like both of them.

 

On initial viewing I would have to say TFA was more satisfying Did like TLJ though. did not understand most of the backlash against feminism or blah. the youtube channel went red hot there for a time.

 

TLJ.

 

Both would be near the bottom of my SW film rankings.

As for which is better between the two, I go back and forth on it. TFA has better action, better humor, and better pacing. TLJ has a more original story and isn't so reliant on nostalgia and fan service. I guess TFA has a bit more re-watchability even though I hate the story.

 

TFA for me. I sat on this for a while. Both soured my mind after watching. I was initially into TLJ by default cause it was kind of weird? But after thinking on it TFA just feels more consistent to me, and it feels more like Star Wars than TLJ. I really don't like the derivative story, but it did set up enough potential and mystery for the sequel to make use of. TLJ screwed up big time for me on that regard. It could have really recontextualize TFA more, but instead the payoff was so weak.

I also feel on a more personal level, JJ handles criticism a lot better than Rian. TFA did have some sort of magic of seeing SW again since RotS. It was my first SW movie at the theaters, since my family didn't take me to see Ep.3. For all my grievances with the movie seeing Luke at the end, in all of it's John Williams glory, was a truly great moment.

 

TFA. I really like this movie. I think it is very well done and entertaining. The trench run at the end was probably the only thing I didn't care for.

 

Yeah, the trench run really mars an otherwise pretty decent battle scene. JJ took the callback too far in that instance.

 

The biggest issue for me with TFA is that it sidelines an otherwise intriguing narrative trajectory (the search for Luke Skywalker) in favor of dealing with the obligatory issue of Starkiller Base, which only serves the narrative purpose of destroying the new Republic before it too is inevitably destroyed.

 

I get the feeling from the film and interviews / behind the scenes info that the last 1/3 and Starkiller Base were originally going be more complicated and unique. During editing and reshoots the ending was simplified to be more of a crowd pleaser that directly echoed A New Hope.

 

The thing is that for me, The Last Jedi has both higher highs and lower lows when compared to The Force Awakens. So I can go back and forth between them pretty easily and do so often. Lol

 

I would too. Seeing how much money The Force Awakens made - the ending we got literally paid off.

 

I seriously doubt that it was the ending of TFA that paid off.

People would have stormed the movie theaters for this movie regardless of what happens in the end of the movie, as long as it wasn't something ridiculous. It was, after all, a new Star Wars movie after 10 years.

 

Okay. Just dismiss the huge success of The Force Awakens as Star Wars is too big to fail. The Prequels didn't come close to it. Avatar either. The Force Awakens is the biggest movie since Titanic.

 

TFA for me. It set up a lot of things I believed they were going to follow up on, like learning more about the new characters. So it's definitely my choice.

 

I feel like I have answered this question in this board before but I love TLJ. Even with its flaws I think its the best of the saga!

 

Honestly TFA had me grinning from ear to ear and loving every minute of it! However i do feel this is likely due to nostalgia blinding me to the fact that it really is just a reskinned a new hope with a few slightly new things like Kylo's crossguard saber, reading minds and stopping lazer blasts with the force, a female lead (which sure got the SJW's fired up with all the mary sue crap.) Etc Etc.

Ultimately i think i was far more surprised and impressed with TLJ for daring to try something new and break away from the norm or what is expected of star wars. It was different yes but maybe that's what i liked about it. Oh and I'm really tired of all the negativity towards TLJ and everyone saying that's not luke and he's out of character and blah blah blah. Do you really think a person wouldn't change their attitude or way of thinking from the time they're 25 ish to their 60's? Did you really want luke to be some flawless super Jedi that just force unleashed his way through the first order and showed no sign of weakness or humanity? Maybe you don't know luke as well as you think you do.

Okay I'll admit i half wanted him to come swooshing into the battle in his x-wing during the final act and blow something up but that's what everybody was probably expecting. Way too predictable and safe. I thought that's what got so many of you whining about TFA. Cause it was too samey. The second they try something new you're like boo! hisss! horrible movie! Rian Johnson ruined star wars!

 

I resent that sentiment, sir. Because NO ONE ELSE of the OT cast had changed character wise. Luke has always been dumped on by the fandom and franchise: he’s too whiny, ew he thought his sister was attractive? Han is so much better, the hero arc is SO overrated. Leia is so much stronger emotionally...

Luke went through SO much and his arc was heart breaking, starting as a starry-eyed youth, ending as a world-weary, disabled, orphaned, mentorless, reserved war veteran and lone Jedi. He didn’t get the, or a, girl...his victories where soggy with his tears, and his only prize after all the emotional and physical scars was how much he matured and his purpose as the first of the new Jedi Order.

And my ONE hope with TLJ was that Luke wouldn’t be dumped on AGAIN. That his integrity that he so rightfully earned would be intact and evolved since the OT. But no. And when the original creator and actor who defined the role fundamentally disagree with the latest interpretation... I don’t think it’s me who or those who are dissatisfied that misunderstand the character of Luke Skywalker.

I think they had to tear him down in integrity and power to raise up the new characters and themes, and that is artless and disappointing. Newer generations won’t care, but those of us that are there for nostalgia are severely disappointed and have a right to express it... and to straight up not support it.

TLJ killed my excitement for Star Wars and solidified my distrust of Disney’s handling of it. I ignore what I don’t like. My collection ends with TFA, which I felt was a great jumpstart to usher in a new trilogy. But the EU is my satisfying source of the fates of our heroes.

 

People change in many ways and they also always stay the same in perhaps even more ways. We all have core elements in our personalities, some of which are even further enhanced by our journey in this life. And some are watered down. It is my personal belief that what we saw in TLJ is a future for Luke, that based on everything that happened in episodes IV-VI, would never happen. I think that Mark Hamill's character in TLJ is an alternate reality character, who has lost all of Luke's core elements. And at the end of the day, why would I even ever be invested in a Star Wars story that deconstructs all of the well established characters? Could work as a parody, or a spoof on SNL perhaps.

We know Luke very well, thank you. No, that's not what we wanted. But I would have taken it over what we got. I would have taken Cyborg Luke. Darth Luke. Anything really.

The problem is not trying something new. It's trying something that focused on people's expectations more than the actual plot and the story. Every conscious decision about where the story will go and how will characters X, Y and Z will react, was made by making the question "what can I do to subvert people's expectations" instead of asking "what would character X, Y and Z do" and then take it from there. I'll take predictable and cliche over pretentious and forced any given day. That's why I prefer TFA.

 

*snaps fingers* Yaaaasssss!

 

Wow i guess i really got all your panties in a bunch. Somebody really didn't like the last jedi! Now what's all this about positivity towards TLJ? What positivity? Last time i checked there was none LOL.

All I'm trying to say is the movie may not have panned out the way everyone wanted but I've seen far worse from star wars. The christmas special or both Ewok movies for example. Lukes behavior in TLJ seemed totally understandable to me. How would you react if everything you loved was destroyed by your nephew? Everything Luke believed in was torn apart and his students were murdered. Yeah I'd be pretty damn hopeless and ready to die too. Everybody thought luke was just supposed to be all cheery and eager and say yeah come on rey let's go save the galaxy!

If it's too similar it's a new hope rehash, if it's too different star wars is ruined. If the christmas special didn't ruin it nothing will.
I've already seen early reviews online, possibly made up i suppose just to get star wars fans riled up claiming TROS is worse than TLJ so already people are hating on it. I swear i just don't get this fanbase. Do you even try to enjoy yourselves or were you burnt out on this franchise decades ago?