The Fourth Installment of the 2005 Jedi Draft-Jedi Revelations

but he is powerful enough to beat Plo Koon...

What Ken said, that has nothing to do with him being a hole cohesively.

If you think I said hole in regards to his skill or power, that's not what I meant. I told you his skill was nil when you picked him, but his power was decent.

 

That's right. Rogue Planet just escaped my mind for a few minutes. I knew we had seen more action from her from somewhere but I was afraid to post without proof lest I be drawn and quartered by an angry mob. But taking that into account I could see her in the same class as many 5th rounders in this draft.

 

It is against the nature of the Dark Side for 6 dark lords to be cohesive, to work together.

The Dark Side corrupts, and is full of opportunistic power-hungry Jedi. They constantly kill each other.

and you avoided answering the question by stating it is irrelevant. I do not see how that is irrelevant, and I will not discuss why you think it is. We are not here to discuss that. I think if you looked at the main idea of the post, and what the post's main idea was, I think you can see why it was not an irrelevant statement. Out of context, the way you italicized it, makes it convenient.

So please, answer the question. I just want to know your thoughts, and other people's thoughts, on how can Plo Koon, a Jedi Master, fully trained and experienced, trainer of other Jedi, who is not a hole for many teams - lose to a being that is not even a Jedi, who is completely untrained, who does not use a saber, who also happens to be a hole on every team?

Thank you,

Madine out

 

Cohesion can definitely work on a Dark Side team, especially when they have single-minded goals like destroying the Jedi.

A few drafts ago I had Sidious, Kun, and a few other dark Jedi...including Maul, and I was CONSTANTLY told that my cohesion sucked, because the Sith would stab each other in the back and not focus on the fighting. Now you're telling me that DS cohesion is a good thing?

Seems like some rather large inconsistencies here.

 

So please, answer the question. I just want to know your thoughts, and other people's thoughts, on how can Plo Koon, a Jedi Master, fully trained and experienced, trainer of other Jedi, who is not a hole for many teams - lose to a being that is not even a Jedi, who is completely untrained, who does not use a saber, who also happens to be a hole on every team?

If you wanted us to answer that question, ask it in the first place please.

PLO KOON SUCKS!

 

Powerful is not all of it. Plo has more skills than Onimi. And he is no slouch in the power department.

And I got you said a hole to every TEAM, but individually, with no training, no skills, and no saber, against a powerful Jedi Master with all those things, how can Onimi win with just power?

It makes little sense.

 

And Onimi happens to suck a little less. That's all.

 

Madine, I don't see what your point even is of arguing this. Would you like me to go back to last draft, cancel Sith winning, and have it judged again?

I would still vote Onimi.

We had enough arguing of this topic last draft.

 

no message, read message below.

Thank you.

 

Plo > Onimi. That is all.

 

Those are not answers based in anything but opinion.

So Thon is in the same boat too, then, with you two. A powerful Jedi Master who has skills, trains other Jedi - he just sucks too? He just sucks! Based on what?

How about a little somethin-somethin more to make your point(s) a little more solid.

You are both judges here after all. I am a GM, I am not in a position of power to change the game's results.

If you are simply judging based on "I think he sucks", then it is not exactly a fair way to judge.

Judges in the Olympics, Judges in courts of law - they back up their judgments. Sure, personal opinions come into play to an extent, but not exclusively.

Thanks for playing. I do not find those sorts of answers constructive or appropriate. You are both Judges in this game. I feel you have a certain responsibility here.

Madine out

 

I will drop Nihilus and pick up Dark Woman. Thank you.

Uhh, yeah Nihilus sucks and all, but are you sure you know who Dark Woman is? If you want a crappy PT Jedi theres plenty out there that are >> DW. But I don't know why you would want one anyway.

 

Madine: It is against the nature of the Dark Side for 6 dark lords to be cohesive, to work together.

No, it's not. Look at the examples I provided-- the only uncohesive part about the Dark Side is that treachery is the way of the Sith, and that in the long run they'll betray each other to replace the hierarchy with the most powerful.

The Dark Side corrupts

Yes, and? It corrupts beings to do evil. You know, like kill other beings. You know, like the Jedi that it drives them to hate so much? That's more of an asset, really.

and is full of opportunistic power-hungry Jedi.

It's full of power-hungry Sith and Dark Jedi that would like nothing more than to rid the galaxy of Jedi and their opponents so that their team could sit atop the bracket of the Draft.

They constantly kill each other.

And, you'll notice, it's always in private, after they've already achieved their goals against their common enemy. It's rarely ever in battle.

and you avoided answering the question by stating it is irrelevant.

No, I did not state that it was irrelevant. I stated that your comparison of Onimi to Plo Koon in terms of cohesion is irrelevant. Because, and I'll quote myself again:

That's very irrelevant. Luke is powerful enough to beat Sidious, who is a great leader and cohesive on many Dark Side teams. You can't compare individuals' abilities and try and relate that to cohesion.

burd even reiterated it.

I do not see how that is irrelevant, and I will not discuss why you think it is. We are not here to discuss that.

If you cannot see how that is clearly irrelevant judging cohesion off of individuals is, then I couldn't attempt to discuss it with you if I tried, I'm afraid.

think if you looked at the main idea of the post, and what the post's main idea was, I think you can see why it was not an irrelevant statement.

I did look at the entire post, and I saw your main point. It can be summed up like this:

You hold that Onimi > Plo Koon individually from the past Draft, but you're wondering why Onimi is a hole on your team whereas Plo Koon is cohesive on other teams.

My response was that your comparison is irrelevant-- you can't compare cohesiveness on an individual basis. That's not what cohesiveness is. Plo Koon would be a huge hole on a Dark Side team. It's all relative.

Out of context, the way you italicized it, makes it convenient.

Madine, please-- show me how I took that out of context. Show me please. I'm tired of these unfounded claims, and unless you can prove that I took you out of context, I'd appreciate an apology.

So please, answer the question.

I thought I already did-- you can't compare cohesiveness on an individual basis.

I just want to know your thoughts, and other people's thoughts, on how can Plo Koon, a Jedi Master, fully trained and experienced, trainer of other Jedi, who is not a hole for many teams - lose to a being that is not even a Jedi, who is completely untrained, who does not use a saber, who also happens to be a hole on every team?

1.) I'm not going into why Plo Koon > Onimi because I did not judge last Draft. Take it up with those who made that decision, and take up with me decisions I make.

2.) I did, however, note that Onimi was a hole on your team, so I've replied stating that yes, he's not cohesive on your team. Just like Plo Koon (or even Yoda for that matter) would not be cohesive on a Dark Side team.

---

[i]A few drafts ago I had Sidious, Kun, and a few other dark Jedi...including Maul, and I was CONSTANTLY told that my cohesion sucked, because the Sith would stab each other in the back and not focus on the fighting. Now you're telling me that DS cohesion is a good thing?[/i]

[b]1.)[/b] Again, I sure didn't make any of those decisions, and you can bet that I won't do anything of the sort while I'm judging this Draft.

[b]2.)[/b] Previous Drafts had opinions like Yoda > Luke (and Vergere > Y

 

Thanks for playing. I do not find those sorts of answers constructive or appropriate. You are both Judges in this game. I feel you have a certain responsibility here.

That comment is out of line.

I REALLY am not going to go back to last draft. Let me lay out a nice list item mark-up here for you.

1. This isn't a match, I am not obligated to say anything.



2. Plo Koon has done NOTHING to make me think he is good.



3. I repeatedly asked you last draft to provide me evidence in him ever being in ONE fight outside of a plane, you could not.



4. You lost last draft because Plo Koon sucks, get over it, and stop baiting Ken, SB and I with your sore-loser comments.



5. This is all I'm saying, like I said earlier, if you want a more detailed layout of my thoughts, please go back and read last draft.



6. Stop wasting my time.



7. Thanks.

 

I am searching for the criteria of the judges. There has to be more consistancy, standards, to the judgments.

I brought Thon into this because he also has lost some luster, to the point where I have an insane, insane trump with Nomi and Thon.

In past drafts, based on all the same information we all have now, Thon was a high pick, and considered really powerful.

And for good reason, he is really good

If I have Thon individually, it seems you three would vote against him everytime.

I want to know why. Based on what - HE SUCKS! is not why.

The Onimi argument is the same one, I am bringing that up as background. I am not getting the basis for the judgments.

Madine out

 

I will drop Nihilus and pick up Neeja Halcyon, drop Sion and pick up Quinlan Vos. Thank you.

 

Those are not answers based in anything but opinion.

I gave specific examples on the Dark Side cohesion issue, and it's not a matter of opinion when it comes to the fact that you cannot argue individual cohesion. It's impossible. It's like trying to argue that the sky is blue because I pick my nose.

So Thon is in the same boat too, then, with you two. A powerful Jedi Master who has skills, trains other Jedi - he just sucks too? He just sucks! Based on what?

1.) You said "A powerful Jedi Master who has skills"-- based on what? Read TotJ. He's shown minimal power and no skill.

2.) I've provided a ton of stuff on Thon in the past. If you'd like me to bring it out now, I'd be happy to.

How about a little somethin-somethin more to make your point(s) a little more solid.

THAT'S THE THING!!!

Everytime I make my point, my posts are long and filled with tons of solid facts. You don't like those long posts, though, but then you get mad if I sum something up? You've got to choose one or the other, sir.

 

Well, if that is true, someone in that conference better pick up Malak NOW

 

Don't argue, let's just get on with this draft thing. This technological terror that I've constructed is causing too many headaches.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm not allowing you to drop Malak Spaceman.

Malak stays on your team. That's ridiculous.

 

read above message.

 

Already taken care of burdy burd. I PMed a little sense into him

 

There is no baiting here.

Please retract that. I am attempting to have intellegent conversation to ascertain where the standards are in the judging.

And Ken, I have to compliment you on your last post. It was well done.

But I do feel you do take things out of context. Perhaps not all the time. And certainly less now that we brought it up yesterday.

I ask on Thon and Onimi and Plo to figure out the standards of Judging, to figure out if there is and what it is. He Sucks does not cut it for me, and I am not trying to get the win from last time

And I am clearly not making my point clear as to how the team and the individual parts of the Onimi and Plo discussion work together, and I simply do not have the time to try to explain it again. I feel it will fail to help anyway, I will attempt again later when a similar situation arises. I think it will.

Madine out

 

I remember the first Draft. We all danced in rivers of chocolate wearing gumdrop smiles.

That was before the dark times. Before the Empire!

 

Well thats good.