Lit The genealogy of the Skywalker-Solo clan

I decided to revisit this theory and break down Clan Vos by qukuff and relationship to one another to see if the theory checks out. We have four qukuff types: vertical across the face from chin to forehead, horizontal from each cheek across the nose, halfway down the face from forehead to bridge of nose, and a lightning bolt across the left eye.

Vertical qukuff:

• Kurlin Vos (brother of Tinte, Sheyf of Kiffu until ~55bby?)
  
• Tinte Vos (sister of Kurlin, great-aunt of Quinlan; Sheyf of Kiffu from her brother's death until 22bby; assumed by an unknown Vos afterwards)
• Pethros Vos (father of Quinlan)

Horizontal qukuff:

• Quian Vos (mother of Quinlan, "cousin" of Tinte)
• Quinlan Vos (son of Quian and Pethros)
• Korto Vos (son of Quinlan and non-Kiffar Khaleen Hentz; takes father's qukuff due to mother's identity)
• Zac'ryah Vos (relation unknown)
• Zharia Vos (Sheyf during 130s aby, relation unknown)

Halfway qukuff:

• Asante Vos ("cousin" of Quinlan)

Lightning bolt qukuff:

• Droo Rawk (relation unknown, descended from Vos clan)

Considering that qukuffs are matrilineal but clan name might not be, I think that we can confirm @Gamiel 's theory by observing the relation between the horizontal and vertical qukuff families. Kurlin and Tinte share a maternal ancestor with Pethros, whose relation to the others isn’t specified. Quian is described by Wookieepedia as a “cousin” of Tinte; barring the fact that cousin is a super vague word, does anyone have a copy of Republic to fact check this? Mine is 300 miles away.

It seems to me that Kurlin and Tinte have a sister who’s the mother of Pethros. Zac’ryah is likely a maternal relative of Quian’s; maybe an uncle? Zharia probably descends through an aunt or female cousin of Quinlan's because she’s not a descendant of Korto as stated by Jon/Jan. It is worth noting that Zharia's qukuff is slightly altered, though.

I assume that when marrying outside of the clan, the mother's clan still takes precedent. This is why Droo Rawk is of Clan Rawk while still descending from Clan Vos; somewhere in the line from Korto to Droo, a male Vos married a female Rawk. This would probably mean that all of the other known members of the clan (save for Korto) have at least a mother in the Vos clan, and characters like Asante and Zharia could be descended through male lines if they also have Vos mothers.

I also am still unsure why Ahnah lacks her mother’s qukuff, but I think it has to do with the political situation her parents were in?

I've started building a Skywalker-Solo tree of my own design. There will be two versions: one with as little fanon or theories as possible (save for basic assumptions like Jaina and Jagged's descendants) and one with a few of the generally-accepted theories in this thread.

 

At what age do kids get the qukuff anyway? Maybe it is not a fixed age and while Quinlans kid got it early, others do it later. Though is it a tatoo or facial paint that can be reapplied and removed?

can't wait to see this you do great work!

 

If Wookieepedia is anything to go by, Quinlan had his qukuff by age four at the latest and it was likely applied while he was an infant. You are correct that perhaps Clan Vos likes to get an early start on their qukuffs though; I was browsing the pages for the other famous Kiffars, Sintas and Ailyn Vel, and noticed images of Ailyn as a child into her preteens lacking the qukuff of her mother. Then again, Sintas did not have a very strong connection to her Kiffar ancestry and might have abandoned the practice for her daughter. Also, the qukuff is a tattoo and can't be easily removed, but covering it up or getting laser surgery like in our world is probably an option. I imagine that's what the Tonnika Sisters did, being Kiffars themselves.

 

Interesting to note, Sintas and Aylin had different qukuffs! Both had three paralell stripes but in different locations as well as her mom had two mirrored ones, she only one and in different angle too. How to explain that then?

 

Based on this picture of Korto Vos can they apply the qukuff when the clan member is an infant

 

and who would torture-tatoo an infant!!!

 

My Star Wars culture ritually tattoo their faces with marks at the age of 12 and then add the family crest to the top of the left hand (and right hand for males), the right hand is kept for females when they marry.

 

Hmm. I think this might just be an extension of Sintas lacking a solid connection to her heritage, leading to slight alteration in the family's qukuff. Then again, presumably all members of a clan started with the same qukuff until modifying it down the road, right? Clan Vos almost all have the same qukuff, just oriented in different directions. It might be normal for families to do such a thing.

 

I continue to go down a rabbit hole regarding the Antilles. As an aside, it is fitting that a family named after a mythical island would be so elusive in regard to detailing.

From the Legacy Era Campaign Guide: "Bail Antilles comes from a family dedicated to governmental service. His family name combined with his personal charisma and connections allow him to rise through the Galactic Government and ultimately be voted in as a member of the Triumvirate."

Being named after a former Alderaanian senator and coming from a family "dedicated to governmental service" almost screams a connection between Bail and Ona to one of the other Antilles families, especially when connected to the Legacy Era's overall theme regarding the literal legacy of characters in the past. Bail's family name being part of his rise to power almost goes against the idea of "Antilles" being a very common name in the Galaxy (does anyone have a source on this? I can't identify one) and I think implies a direct connection to Wedge Antilles. Both of Wedge's children go into governmental service, but Syal explicitly doesn't use her name and connection to her father to her advantage. Myri, on the other hand, doesn't to my knowledge have an issue with exploiting her connection to Wedge. I would argue that Bail's descent from Myri is more likely than descent from Syal, if he is a member of Wedge's line. However, there is also the possibility of Bail's parent being a child of Syal and her fiance Tiom Rordan, who died during the Second Galactic Civil War. Syal doesn't appear after LOTF; maybe she's off raising a child?

Here is my abbreviated Skywalker-Solo family tree, made in Excel as a prototype to a bigger, readable family tree. Everyone is listed under first initial only:

 

So after watching The Rise of Skywalker, I'd like to offer a One Canon take on...

Spoiler

Palpatine's family tree.

We last left off detailing his non-direct relatives (his third cousin Volpau, grandniece Ederlathh, and a potential link to the Pestages of Ciutric IV), and we touched on direct descendants from Sheev himself (Triclops/Trioculus, Irek Ismaren, Ken, and perhaps Anakin Skywalker.) Let's go in order again:

No new information regarding cousins or Sheev's parents in Canon; as far as we are concerned, Cosinga is still Sheev's father and Volpau remains a corpse. Where things get interesting are Sheev's descendants. With Rey Palpatine now canon, however, let's dig back into Sheev's past relationships and potential scions.

We'll start with my personal favorite: the wondrously-vindicated Triclops and Ken, Palpatine's OG son and grandchild. Abel G. Peña's Alien Henchmen of the Empire is a great article, but I think that his chronology is off. If Triclops is indeed the child of Sheev and Sly Moore and Sly Moore died in 18bby (due to childbirth), Triclops can't really have a son in 7bby without advanced aging. This is why I favored the alternative idea that Triclops was a prototype clone of Palpatine a few pages back. However, an easier retcon is that Sly Moore didn't actually die in childbirth and merely disappeared off to join the Sith Eternal.

Irek Ismaren's parentage is amusing. Sarcev Quest is another one of these RPG sourcebook/online articles-exclusive characters; in fact, he was also invented by Abel G. Peña by giving extensive background to a character that barely even existed beforehand. To sum him up: he was a failed Jedi Knight discovered by Palpatine and turned to the dark side before the founding of the Empire, and then became an Emperor's Hand and general troublemaker following Return of the Jedi. I find it really interesting that Quest was a convert of Palpatine's before the founding of the Empire. Could there be a direct link? Did Palpatine try to introduce a child of his own into the Jedi Order and subvert them from the inside? We do know that Quest started turning AgriCorps members to the dark side. Would this make Irek a true heir to the Empire and descendant of the Palpatine line? Perhaps, but it's hard to say anything conclusively.

Next we have Canon's new addition to the Palpatine family tree: Rey and her father, who is unnamed and apparently not force-sensitive. I was a little disappointed, truth be told; I was hoping they'd call her father Ken! After all, Ken basically disappears from Legends following the Jedi Prince saga and therefore has a wide open future. Plus, I think that realistically it works a little better if Rey's father is Palpatine's grandson rather than son; yeah Palpatine could have kids late in life, but it's just a little strange. Ken as Rey's father would be a cute Legends reference to a story that apparently the ST has chosen to reimagine...

You know, something should be said about the parentage of Trioculus: he was apparently a virgin birth to a woman named Niobi, if the Alien Henchmen of the Empire article is anything to go by. Perhaps he was a creation of Darth Plagueis in his experiments later in life? Not a child of Palpatine, but the alternative would be to view Trioculus as a "sibling" to Anakin as they were both created through the Force. Personally, I'd like to keep Trioculus away from the Skywalker bloodline!

Canon also tells us that Palpatine made Snoke. Made him how? A clone, a homunculus? Would Snoke count as some heavily-modified genetic successor of Sheev's? Is he... Rey's uncle?!

In the One Canon thread it was mentioned that Thrawn's cloning moon was in the vicinity of Exegol. I really wanted to do a big post on the Jedi clones of Thrawn a while ago but never got around to it because I wanted to reread Paul S Kemp's Jaden Korr books first. I decided to take a quick glance at the Wookieepedia article for the clones and... hey, it says Palpatine's DNA was used to make them? I need to go check the books again, but something about that feels off. Does that mean the clones of Mara Jade, Lumiya, Kyle Katarn, and Kam Solusar all have genes of Palpatine in them? Is that little girl Grace, daughter of Mara and Kam's clones, actually a Palpatine? It would also mean that the Palpatines are officially on my Skywalker tree, which might make it a little big...

Also, a quick update on Ederlathh: earlier in the thread it was suggested that she could be one of Padme's nieces, and that the Naberries are descended from Cosinga Palpatine; but after reviewing Ederlathh Pallopides' Wookieepedia page, she's nearly 30 years younger than either Pooja or Ryoo Naberrie.

So we have all of Palpatine's kids and grandkids laid out; who is the lucky lady? Sly Moore is apparently Triclops's mother, but could she also be Sarcev Quest or Rey's father's parent? Does Palpatine even feel the need to conceive with a woman? we know that apparently during the Imperial age he was a bit of a womanizer with several concubines and consorts; Roganda Ismaren (who may have actually been with Sarcev) was called a concubine, and Ysanne Isard told Corran Horn that she was in love with Palpatine--then again, she might be Cronal. In Canon, I think it's still likely that the pirate queen that George Lucas invented for Underworld could be Rey's father's mother; those scripts are often used for inspiration by LucasFilm. It also might explain how Rey's father never fell into Palpatine's clutches for so long, because he was raised in the criminal world for most of his early life. I've put forward my Talzin theory before, but I don't give it much credence right now. Maybe that French book we discussed wasn't implying Maul to be a virgin birth, but that Shmi was actually a Nightsister? Now there's a twist.

By the way, the original Marvel Star Wars #36 shows the Tagge brothers trying to get Domina Tagge set up with a member of the Imperial Family. Wait, so in Legends there was a single male Palpatine around the age of Domina (who's about Luke's age)? Hey, maybe Domina didn't die after #108... did anyone catch what color Rey's mother's hair was?

My head is starting to spin. The only thing that makes this more confusing is that, when you think about it, these are our Skywalkers going forward in Canon. Yes, from a One Canon perspective, Rey Skywalker's cousins are Irek Ismaren and Ken (or one of them is her dad.) I find this all a little sad; I made this thread dedicated to exploring the family tree of Luke Skywalker and company, and now The Rise of Skywalker made it clear that the family tree will not be growing more branches any time soon; even Temmin Wexley, canonically Wedge's stepson, is dead with no known children. From here on out, I have to rely on either material set in the earlier timeline to expand our tree, or just go with the Imperial Family as our new Skywalkers. I'm not really complaining, but I find it a little ironic.

I suppose it's fitting, then, that I finished my draft of the Skywalker Family Tree. It's not pretty, but it should be readable. I would recommend opening it in another tab to read.

 

Lets not forget Palpatines fling with Talzin

 

Spoiler

Triclops can easily be Sly and Sheev's biological child. Not only are there human children on record who have procreated at age 12, but Triclops is half Umbaran, and we don't know anything about how long it takes for Umbarans to develop. The Umbaran genes, by the way, also explain his white hair.

Of course, the guy on screen playing Rey's dad looks absolutely nothing like Triclops. I'm sure he'll get a name at some point.

 

Something that's piqued my interest lately is Thrawn's family.

In general, the naming conventions of the Chiss have been a mess in Legends. Thrawn's full name of Mitth'raw'nuruodo has been around since 1995 or so, but apparently non-Zahn writers didn't get the memo for a while... almost all of the Chiss in Zahn's works are given either single-word names or three-part names united by apostrophes. Then we have a couple of Chiss that are given two names in Red Sky, Blue Flame: Gimald Nuruodo and Shawnkyr Nuruodo. I suppose that these could be retconned as transliterations of Chiss names in Basic, making them Gim'ald'nuruodo and Shawn'kyr'nuruodo or what-have-you. Binomial Chiss didn't end there, though: my personal favorite is Droma Ordo from Galaxies. Apparently, Chiss can join Mandalorian clans!

Then NJO starts making things interesting by establishing that one of the Ruling Families of the Chiss is House Nuruodo, and we get two members of this family: Ina'ganet'nuruodo and Hess'irolia'nuruodo. It also appears that Ganet and Iriolia are blood relatives, so "family" is biological. You would assume that Thrawn is therefore cousin, brother, uncle, father, or something to these two Chiss, and presumably the previous Nuruodos from Red Sky, Blue Flame can also be rolled in.

Not so! Zahn establishes in Outbound Flight that Thrawn has a brother named Mitth'ras'safis, and that they are part of House Mitth. Furthermore, Thrawn and Thrass are described as having been commoners before adoption and then marriage into House Mitth.

I have a suggestion: after the sacrifice Thrass made in Outbound Flight, it would appear that Thrawn ascended to the title of Syndic, replacing his brother. Thrawn never achieved the title of Aristocra (more on that later,) but could it be that either after the bi-canon Thrawn novels or after establishing the Empire of the Hand, House Mitth became House Nuruodo in honor of Thrawn? Or perhaps House Nuruodo was an offshoot founded by Thrawn (and presumably his wife originating in House Mitth) founded for the purpose of leading the Empire of the Hand.

It's established in the Dark Nest Trilogy that either during or after the Vong War, the Chiss entered a Civil War that reduced the number of Ruling Families from nine to four. The reason given for this war is the importation of killik laborers, but maybe this is also the war that saw the absorption of the Empire of the Hand into the Chiss Ascendancy. House Mitth would have merged with House Nuruodo during this war, although the retaining of the latter name implies a political victory for House Nuruodo despite being led by Aristocra Mitt'swe'kleoni (whose name is, I assume, a typo; only a Mitth family is known, not a Mitt family.)

So when did House Mitth become/divide off into House Nuruodo? After 27BBY for certain: by the Clone Wars it is known that Sev'eere'nuruodo is an Aristocra of the Chiss. Kung'urama'nuruodo's name implies that he predates the establishment of House Nuruodo, as he would have been born before 27BBY. He might therefore be closer related to Thrawn and Thrass than to Veeren and Iriola.

One last thing: what exactly do the three parts of a Chiss name mean? The first part is obviously a family name and can indicate both blood and marital status while the second part is the name they tend to go by. What about the third part? I would say that one possibility is that it's the name of the parent that doesn't give the family name to their offspring, but I have no evidence to back that up. In fact, I cannot find any examples of a confirmed parent-child pair of Chiss. We also have Ar'alani, who has not been given a third part of her name. If I recall correctly, that has something to do with military service, but Wookieepedia doesn't say anything about her name.

 

Could just be that double names are popular among the Chiss in the movies-era, similar to how double names like Lars-Krister, Johan-Fredrik, Karl-Göran were really popular in Sweden in some ages.

 

Does it say anywhere that Thrawn and Thrass actually blood related? It's possible that their birth names were Raw'nuruodo and Ras'safis before being adopted into the Mitth family, Thrawn of the Nuruodo family and Thrass of the Safis family. Thrawn was born a commoner, but it's possible some time between his childhood and the Clone Wars the Nuruodos gained prominence. Maybe Zahn's new book will have some answers for us.

 

I like that possibility, although if I recall aren't there Chiss in TOR with similar naming structures? So I think it's more than just a movie thing.

Also interesting is that Fehlaaur'aitel'loro in Legacy goes by his family name, perhaps because of the formal Imperial setting he inhabits. That makes me wonder if perhaps in Cheunh, Baron Fel is called Fel'soontir or something like that.

I don't think Outbound Flight says that they were necessarily blood-related, but the implication is that they grew up together, joined House Mitth together, and the reputation of one can severely impact the other. I guess they could just be lifelong friends. Maybe joining a Ruling Family is like joining a college sorority.

 

While it would be easiest to assume both family names come from both parents and one changes with marriage, we have indeed no proof of that.

Also Chiss have a common practice of adoption (much like Mandalorians!) and raising others children as Shadow Childs for political or other purposes.

One named Chiss might be orphans whose parents are unknown with just a core name remaining.
Chiss with a two part name may have either only one parent known, the other unknown.

Now it gets tricky, shadow children are raised in secret and most likely under a false name with another family. So that may explain how some Chiss do not have the family name they share blood with! They were shadow children and got the shadow family name as one part of their name. Depending on which family needed to be shadowed, that one is the replaced one I guess.

Another idea is, that there may be many nuruodo families but not all are part of House Nuruodo. Like on earth not all Smiths are related to royal Smiths.

For Chiss with only one name or two names not separated by ' we may also just not know their chiss name and only have the gffa common name variant they go by.



So back to the general naming tradition:

Family1 ' core name ' Family2

- Family 1 and 2 could be parents.
- Family 1 or 2 could be the parents family name, with the other being the married name of the partner family.
- Family 1 or 2 could be the parents name with the other being the name of the adopting family.
- maybe orphans lack one or both family names
- maybe one gives up a family name when military becomes ones chosen family a kind of name sacrifice to show allegiance
- maybe one Family name signifies blood relation while the other signifies duty and chosen family, be it through marriage, military service or other service, political, social, etc.?


As for Thrawn and Thrass, I doubt they were commoners before adoption. Maybe they are shadow children of House Nuruodo that got taken in by House Mith. The marriage part may simply be that Thrass found love with a member of the adoptive house he is not bloodrelated to.

Remember, sometimes houses exchanged children so no house would attack the other, or to hide children with a friendly house to keep the family going in case the House falls.

So it might have been a gamble by House Nuruodo to hide Thrawn and Thrass, but Thrawn's talent and rise to prominence outed him as a Nuruodo anyway and so he openly rejoined it when the shadow child business was over anyway with reaching adulthood.

The Chiss civil war might have reduced the Houses, but I do not see Mitth and Nuruodo at odds, rather as allies. But when House Mitth fell in the war, it lived on within House Nuruodo due to its shadow children there, as well as the Mitth raised Nuruodo shadow children that returned to House Nuruodo like Thrawn had done.

 

Thrawn literally says "We were born as commoners" to Thrass in Outbound Flight.

 

still could mean commoners within House Nuruodo.. not every prominent family has every member be something special.

 

I'm going to have to disagree here. The Shadow Child retcon was established as a Chiss practice to preserve bloodline, and that sounds like adoption is not included in that process (remind me to come back to the Fel kids sometime...) I think that the Chiss may be one of the few significant Star Wars cultures that emphasize biological lineage a great deal, actually. Another parallel with historical Chinese empires, I suppose.

However, I agree that Chiss do have a common practice of adoption, which appears to be a political process that may or may not involve marriage into the House.

by the way, what’s the chance that Kung’urama Nuruodo is a Shadow Child?

Reexamining Wookieepedia, a number of the Force-sensitive Chiss younglings in the second Thrawn trilogy are given simple, two-syllable names with the syllables separated by apostrophes. I don't know if this is specific to the Skywalkers of Chiss society, Chiss younglings, or some other factor. If it’s the fact that they’re younglings, then Chiss names might evolve and change as they grow up. Hopefully the new Thrawn trilogy will shed light on this.

 

Something I don’t remember seeing mentioned - Bail Organa has a maternal uncle named Tayvor Mandirly.


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So thinking about Allana, anyone want to speculate who she married or who her children were?

Assuming of course she did become hapan queen at one point and have children of her own.

 

my opinion, It’s very difficult to speculate who Allana would have married. In my opinion, the post-Endor generation got shafted in favor of their parents, and by being shafted, the post-Vong generation (their children) are basically unknown entirely.

Given that the Royal House of Hapes was no longer under Ta’a Chume’s boot, I can’t see Allana being arranged into some unsavory marriage. Given that Allana’s era was an era of peace there was probably no need for political marriage into another royal family. No need for a Courtship of Princess Allana novel.

I’m under the impression that either we know who Allana’s kids are or we never were going to. Elliah and Hogrum Chalk are known to be important to the Hapans and I can see a marriage between Elliah and Roan Fel being arranged to unite the Hapans into the Imperial family. One issue with this, however, is that if Elliah and Hogrum were the children of Allana, they wouldn’t have the last name Chalk. They’d be Solos, because the Hapans usually follow the matrilineal name. Because of this, I personally favor the idea that Elliah and Hogrum are the paternal grandchildren of Zekk and Taryn Zel. Hogrum and Zekk even have a physical resemblance, in my opinion. That being said, it’s far more poetic if Marasiah is the union of Jacen and Jaina’s bloodlines... although her parents would be second cousins.

As for the other possibility: there was a discussion on this board a while ago that I read that pointed out how Legacy Vol 2 seemingly had no plan or intended backstory for Ania Solo. I’m not sure I’d go that far, especially since the series got cut short, but the only link between Ania and Allana are their first initials. That doesn’t bode well.

I honestly think we just weren’t going to know about her descendants for a long time. If she went to rule over Hapes, she’d kind of fade into obscurity unless Hapes became really important after Sword of the Jedi for some reason. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, though: I’d rather Allana be quietly ignored and rule Hapes in peace than have every author use the character for their own nefarious purposes.

 

Well I don’t even really think her children(or even any love interests or future husbands) were even established actual characters that had been conceived of by the time the old EU was decanonized.

Given her age, and the way the EU was going-it could have been years(OOU) that is before we got any inkling of Allana’s Future in that regard.

Did she marry a nobleman from Hapes? A fellow Jedi? Some other man as prince consort? It’s all up to the fans imaginations now.

 

After meditating on it some more:

Given author politics at LFL of the time when Allana was being set up, I believe that Troy Denning had zero intention to connect Allana to any characters depicted in Legacy. Denning either didn't like Legacy or had no issue with discounting it (didn't he call it a "possible" future? Literally represented as an alternate future to the Allana-as-queen story?) so I can't see him hooking Allana into known Legacy characters.

Her future status as a Jedi "queen" indicates rule over a portion of the galaxy larger than the Hapes Consortium. Even if Allana begins a political career on Hapes, I don't think that's where it ends. I doubt Allana gets involved as a political leader of the Empire, but what other place could she rule as "Jedi Queen"?

I'm also second-guessing myself on Hapans using surnames from the matriline. In fact, I don't think the Hapan royal family has a last name at all. Are last names a convention within the Hapes? Off the top of my head, there's the Zel twins, but they're also illegitimate children as far as I know. My point is: Allana's children could be named after their father.

I'm also wondering if there's any reason for Allana to become the queen of Hapes anyway. Tenel Ka was less interested in her Hapan background and more into her Dathomiri background, so could Allana turn out the same way? I think that her role as a Jedi Queen would be just as viable if she is uniting several Force-based practices with the Jedi Order (the Dathomiri Witches, and perhaps certain orders that her father studied with.)

Now, there's one other possibility I've considered. The Throne of Balance is a literal place within the Netherworld of the Force, no? Is it not the throne from which the Father of Mortis sits on? Maybe Allana becomes a new Mother, disappearing into the Force with her own Son and Daughter to balance the Force.