The Halls of Arrakeen - The Official D U N E and Frank Herbert discussion thread

Arghhh! The AXN channel here showed the 'Dune' mini series. My God, now that I compare it with the 'Children of Dune' mini series, this first mini series was...quite bad. Awful. Vile. Totally annoying!

Good God, what the heck happened to the people who played Paul and Chani? In the CoD mini series, they were great. In the 'Dune' mini series, they looked like a couple of idiots who need to have some serious acting lessons. Arghhh! And the Lady Jessica in 'Dune', don't get me started on her. She looked especially stupid in the "changing the water" scene. In fact the whole scene looked stupid, and this is coming from someone who has read the 'Dune' novels. A newbie would be totally confused by what the heck is going on.

And the lighting...the camera angles...do you know what they remind me of? "Battlefield Earth". Yup, that's the ultimate insult I can deliver. Add in some awful music, and well, like I said, this is really awful when you compare it to the CoD mini series. One redeeming quality though: the expanded role of Princess Irulan. I like this change, and Julie Cox at least mantains a consistent form in both mini series. The others though...urghhh! Gotta stop thinking about them.

To be fair though, the last part will only be shown next week, so I'm gonna watch it. After all, little Alia might provide some entertainment

 

..well, Alec Newman's Paul did get better as the miniseries progressed..

I'm not sure that it was really his acting that was poor, though, moreso then the concept of the character being a whiny brat was poor..

I'm not quite sure i agree with the complaint about Barbora Kodetova's Chani, though..I thought she was solid throughout
both miniseries'..

And i thought the music from the first mini was infinitely better then the quasi-cheesy "march" themes of CoD..

 

I'm not sure that it was really his acting that was poor, though, moreso then the concept of the character being a whiny brat was poor..

Being a brat was annoying enough, but his acting was still poor. If he acting as a brat but acted well, it wouldn't be so annoying. Really, it sounded like he was reading the lines. Lord, I've seen school plays with better actors (OK, an exxageration, but not a very big one). I can't believe this is the same guy who impressed me in the CoD mini series. From his Godfather-esque persona in the 'Dune Messiah' portion, to him playing the Preacher (a perfect immitation of Charlton Heston's John the Baptist, I almost expected him to shout "Repent!!!" Wait, he did say that, right? ), really it was almost as if it was a different Alec Newman in the first mini series.

I'm not quite sure i agree with the complaint about Barbora Kodetova's Chani, though

Sorry, but Kodetova looked like some East European porn star who was hired solely because she has nice breasts (alas, the censorship board here deleted that part, but hey, this is the age of the internet ). Half the time I can't understand what she's saying (her English improved considerably for the second mini series, but the accent still makes her sound like some female version of Arnold ). And as I said, both she and Newman were so bad. Not as bad as poor pathetic Lady Jessica, but still bad.

And those Fremen...all of them gave me the impression that they didn't understand English at all, and were just reading the lines. Well, to be fair, this is a problem in the second mini series too, but it wasn't so bad.

And i thought the music from the first mini was infinitely better then the quasi-cheesy "march" themes of CoD



You have got to be kidding me. Nothing in the first mini series comes close to the stuff that Brian Tyler did for CoD. Indeed, when I look at both TV and movies this year, the only soundtrck that I would enjoy more than Tyler's CoD soundtrack is probably the ROTK soundtrack, and even that one isn't for sure yet since it hasn't been released.

Oh well, like I said, I'm still gonna see the last part. There'll be more Irulan to keep me entertained, and of course I'm curious to see little Alia.

 

And those Fremen...all of them gave me the impression that they didn't understand English at all, and were just reading the lines.

Thats because they DIDN'T understand english. None of the extras (or Chani or Mother Mohiam) spoke or understood a single word of english, and those that had lines were trained only to make the sounds on the spot right before they had to appear before the camera. The actors who played Stilgar and the emperor were the only non-english or scotish actors who had some experience with the english language (and hardly even that for Stilgar)

William Hurt (Leto) complained and whined obsessively about the extras not understanding his lines and responding to them. He said that he liked it when the extras would respond to him, it made the scene feel more "real". One day he got so fed up with not seeing any reaction from the extras that he stormed off the set and said that he wouldn't return until the extras had been taught to respond to his lines. Now, with only two interpreters in the entire production and since none of the crew could understand Czech, the extras were never taught how to react. Hurt reluctantly but eventually returned to the set and forced out his lines, and the production went on.

 

Dune (mini-series) was enjoyable, but it did suffer from some bad acting (not from Alec Newman or Chani's character, though, I disagree there) and a rushed script. The biggest problem with Dune is that they didn't explain anything. It's like "oh, you know, the Hazik Hadarak - you know what that is, right? No? Go read Dune and come back".

CoD is much better, though (especially the soundtrack, I got your back there, Lurking). However, I think the two fit well together. I watched them back-to-back when I got the CoD DVD and they flowed well.

 

Well, more thought on Machine Crusade

ok, Xavier is dead. Now how did the Harkonnens and the Atradis start their feud? Think one of Xavier's daughters will start it?

ok, they clone spare body parts, and cloned a major character in this book. Think anyone will clone baby Manion? seems it's not really his body in the crypt. I can't figure out if his body was left on earth, or Serene decided to bury him somewhere else. Anyone know much about Russian history? seems there were 2 false Dimitris, that lead the rable, but once captured, they were revealed as fake. But it would be cool if like a cloned Manion was "resurrected".


To be honest, I'm glad this war lasted a long time. Kind of a good point that people get tired of a long war.

 

Great, now I realized I used bold face, not spoiler black out. Sorry if I ruined this book for anybody.

 

No, KJA did that for me. LOL! Just kidding, I couldn't resist the opening that left

But on a serious note, question: I'm at the point in Chapter House where Mullebra became a reverend mother and is exploring other memory. Am I to understand from this chapter that the Honored Matres are descendants of Fish Speakers sent into the Scattering?

 

Dune (mini-series) was enjoyable, but it did suffer from some bad acting (not from Alec Newman or Chani's character, though, I disagree there)

Yeah, looks like I'm alone here. Maybe it's because both were much better in CoD, so maybe I shouldn't apply the same standards. Heh, gonna have to think about that.

The biggest problem with Dune is that they didn't explain anything.

This is especially so for the 'changing the water' scene. My God, I had only recently read 'Dune' but even I was confused as to what the heck is going on. To be fair though, remember the scene in CoD where Leto and the worm and he started to have the weird skin and all...that one wasn't explained so well either.

Oh well, last part of the whole thing is tomorrow

 

Yeah, bad explanations were found throughout all three chapters of that series (Dune, Messiah, and CoD, I seperate Messian ahd CoD, myself).

If you want bad Dune acting, watch the '84 version. Boy howdy! Best example - Paul, Gurni and Stil are blowing the shield wall and getting ready to attack. Paul and Gurni are talking and Stil is just standing behind them looking bored out of his mind, then Paul asks for wormsign. The guy playing Stil sudden perks up as if to say "oh, good, I have lines now" and says "Mudib, we've got wormsign the likes of which God himself has not seen." Really? Well, you sure looked pretty damn bored with that rather impressive bit of information a second earlier, Stil!

 

: I'm at the point in Chapter House where Mullebra became a reverend mother and is exploring other memory. Am I to understand from this chapter that the Honored Matres are descendants of Fish Speakers sent into the Scattering?

I didn't even think about that like that, good point. well, I figure since she is trained as a Bene Gesserit, she is able to tap into the other memory. Any woman could do it if they are trained so.

If you want bad Dune acting, watch the '84 version. Boy howdy!

Oh, remember when the worms broke into the Emperor tent (or was it when a worm ate the Baron?) And Stil gave Paul that cheesy grin? that was awful.

 

Am I to understand from this chapter that the Honored Matres are descendants of Fish Speakers sent into the Scattering?


Yep.

 

Well - damn - *snickers* so much for Leto's Golden Path. Got to love that twist!

Ok, so what's this orange stuff they use, where did they get it?

 

Well, I saw the last part of the 'Dune' mini series. Hmmm....mixed thoughts running in my mind.

Well, the acting for Paul/Muaadib improved, thank God. He still lacks the sort of strength and authority that he had in CoD though, particularly in the scene where he rallies the Fremen. The speech he gave sounded so...weak. I for one cannot imagine that a Messiah can whip people into a frenzy when he is so lacking in charisma However, it's still a better performance than the ones in the previous two parts.

A lot of the other performances still annoyed me though, I still hate Lady Jessica As for Chani...she was great in that scene where she cried for her son, but for the most part I still think she was waaaay better in CoD. And can somebody pleeease kill Reverend Mother Mohiam. Urghh! And don't get me started on the Guild Representative and his weird hand gestures while talking

As for writer/director John Harrison...well, much of the lighting still annoyed me. The camera angels still remind me of 'Battlefield Earth'. However, as a director, Harrison is rather good at directing the battle scenes. Those scenes were very entertaining. And certainly impressive given the budget.

However, the main redeeming factor for the 'Dune' mini series has got to be the performances of the Corrinos. Giancarlo Giannini as Shaddam was simply magnificent, and I really pity the guy. The look on his face as he looks out at the attacking Fremen and realized that he is going to lose...that was bloody brilliant. Very nice, much much better than Duke Leto

And Irulan....damn I love Julie Cox. Of course, I would have to salute Harrison's script for allowing the bigger role for Irulan. Otherwise, I can safely say that the mini series would be far less enjoyable. As it is, Irulan continued to keep me entertainied even until the end. And speaking of the end, Harrison's use of lighting for Irulan at the end was...well, I didn't find it annoying. In fact it was damn cool for me. The lights dimmed, and Irulan stands alone as Jessica's narration mention that line about her only having her books. Very nice. And certainly I wouldn't feel the impact had Irulan's role been true to the book. Nope, I simply love the expanded role, and I love Cox's performance.

Oh well, I might have more to say later (indeed, I'll come back with thoughts on little Alia, comments on the awful music and more comments on the acting ), I'm just feeling a wee bit sleepy considering it's almost 2 am here

 

Well - damn - *snickers* so much for Leto's Golden Path. Got to love that twist!

Ok, so what's this orange stuff they use, where did they get it?


I'm trying to remember, but I think the orange stuff is supposed to be like a synthetic adrenaline or something.


As far as the Golden Path is concerned, that's a bit muddy after the last book. You gotta remember that there's a lot different perspective in Heretics and Chapterhouse than there was in God Emperor. The whole point of the Golden Path was to save humanity create a future where humanity could escape pre-destination.

Of course the price for that was going to be horrible, but you see that those who are returning from the Scattering now vastly outnumber those who remained in the Old Empire.

 

"I for one cannot imagine that a Messiah can whip people into a frenzy when he is so lacking in charisma"

Do you really think the Fremen would have been affected by charisma in anyway, though?

They were a deeply religious people who were entrenched in tradition.. and this guy was their prophecized Messiah..

Paul could have been Jabba The Hutt, and they still would have done anything he asked for

 

They were a deeply religious people who were entrenched in tradition.. and this guy was their prophecized Messiah...

I don't know, I think when Paul showed up, they didn't say, "oh, Messiah, let's follow him." Most I read from history, people like following charismatic people.

but anyway, I listened to CoD CD. I liked it that like 95% of the music was short. Nothing more annoying then hearing the oboes of dread for 2 minutes until the sweaping score, like the oboes are just killing time. But once in a while I start thinking of Enya.

 

I'll comment on the charisma issue later First, the rest of my review...

Now, I already mentioned the Corrinos, so how about the Harkonnens? Well, they're a mixed bag. On the one hand, you have the delightful Ian McNeice who had lots of fun playing the Baron. Very entertaining indeed. There's nothing funnier than watching a fat guy float around

And on the other hand, you have Feyd. This guy is so sad. Half the time he looks clueless (is he one of those who doesn't actually understand English?), the other half he just looks plain annoyed. Then again, who can blame him, look at the sort of costumes he had to wear. God, what was that triangle on his back in that scene when he challenged Paul

Speaking of costumes...can somebody stick a poisoned needle at the costume designer? Ugrhhh,the list of ridiculous costumes is limitless. Again, CoD sort of had a similar problem (I always laugh at the hat Ghanima wore for the scene when Wensicia and her son arrived at Arrakis, she looked like she was going to a golf tournament or something ). And poor Julie Cox, she was stuck with the worst costume ever: the butterfly costume...

[image=http://home.earthlink.net/~wwjames/dune02e.JPG]





Believe me, the only costumes more ridiculous than that are the ones Thora Birch had to wore in 'Dungeons and Dragons'. [Gollum]It burnsss, it burnsss my eyesss, precioussss![/Gollum]

Comment on the music (and calling it 'music' is already too generous) can be summed up in two words: it sucks. Let me repeat that: it sucks. One more time: it sucks. Oh what the hell, let's use caps: IT SUCKS!!!

Seriously, nothing here can compare to Brian Tyler's "Inama Nushif" (the song played during the Godfather-esque montage. I think the vocalist was from Iran, forgot her name) or the Jihad theme (the best use of this was at the end of the first part of CoD when Paul stands in the desert alone, and the worm emerged). The "music" for the 'Dune' mini series was just noise. Bah!

There, I feel better, moving on...

Last, but definitely not least, little Alia. Hmmm...well, not a bad performance by the kid. Little Alia works best when she's silent. The little kid's facial expression were damn creepy, good job on that. BUT...when she opened her mouth, she sounds so annoying. Arghhh! When she said "Make him afraid some more", I didn't feel the creepiness. Instead, I just felt annoyance at the little kid's voice.

IMHO, the little kid who would have been perfect for this would be the girl in the 'Taken' mini series (by remarkable coincidence, the name of the character the girl played in 'Taken' is Allie, sounds very close to Alia! Or is it coincidence? There are some Dune-ish themes in 'Taken', believe it or not). She has that "looks like a kid but acts like an adult" manner, and she can really make her voice sounds creepy. That would have been a great Alia for me, but then that's probably my interpretation of the character. Again, as far as expressions go, I have little complain. It's just the voice of little Alia that I found lacking.

Anyway, those are my final thoughts on the 'Dune' mini series. It's still bad, but the third part is worth viewing. And of course, I'd still salute the Corrinos for their great performance. Sadly, House Atreides bears the majority of bad performances Oh yeah, I'm soooo glad Harrison didn't direct CoD. Greg Yaitanes was much better. However, Harrison functions well as a script writer (again, I salute the expanded role of Irulan), so I'd have to give him credit for that

Now let's wait ten more years (or more!) before someone makes a really good adaptation

 

Mwahahahaha! An Alia icon! Now this is damn cool!

Sigh...Daniela Amavia...

Heh, I was about to post my thoughts on the whole charisma issue, but alas, this icon is a great distraction

 

*Two* Alia icons, actually...

 

Your Alia icon is just plain creepy, Leto.

 

Just read on the official site that Dune 7 will likely be 2 books, the first out in 2005.

 

Sounds great

I will be getting 'The Butlerian Jihad' for X-Mas so I look forward to jumping into the prequel novels and see where it all began.

 

A multi-disc "Special Edition" DVD of David Lynch's version of the first Dune book is on its way...but alas, for "Region 2" folk only.

Here are the specs, direct from The Digital Bits.com:

[image=http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000AISLP.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg]

Damn... here's a title we wish Universal would get around to releasing on DVD here in the States. You U.K. fans are in for a treat at least. Sanctuary Visual Entertainment is working on a Dune: Special Edition for release in Region 2 (PAL format) on April 5th. The disc will include the film in anamorphic widescreen video with Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, the 40-minute Impressions of Dune documentary, an interview with Frank Herbert, a vintage promo featurette, the theatrical trailer and a 32-page booklet. This is a nice release, and is certainly better than we have in Region 1, but it could still be better. Dune is a film that's in desperate dire need of a serious special edition release if ever there was one. Can you imagine if Universal let Criterion do a really nice multi-disc edition, like they did with Brazil? It could have the original theatrical edition, the 'Alan Smithee' television version and the original (and much longer) director's cut. Todd and I would pay a few nickels for that, I'll tell you. So too would a LOT of other fans out there. Anyway, here's the cover art...

The Brits have to deal with a government of totalitarian loons and rampant confiscatory socialism, spending enough marrying and burying "Princess Di" to feed and house all the homeless psychos in London, *including* the ones who voted "Labour"...but they also get this new DVD.

Bugger.

 

I never cared for the film but I'd be interested in watching those extras.