CT The Han-Leia Romance. Something I don't understand.

I would have liked the Padme/Anakin romance more if I had seen a lot of chemistry on screen, or if I had read it. I bought the awkward cuteness stage, but not the madly in love stage with those two. With Han and Leia, I believed the sexual tension. I liked the idea of the Padme/Anakin romance way more than I liked the execution on screen.

 

The novel did a better job. I didn't like it as much as H/L, but it had a certain awkward charm.

 

All one has to do is watch her body language, it says everything even when her words say otherwise.

 

I think Leia loved Han for the same reasons we love Han, and Han loved Leia for the same reasons we loved Leia.

 

Han is a guy that behaves as if "no means yes." And since he is such a handsome, dashing, charming, lovable rogue, the audiences love him for it.

 

Han would hardly be considered a misogynist, he sees what her body language says, and he also respects her. When she clearly says no, he backed off albeit with a smart-aleck remark. When he eventually does kiss her, she totally responds in kind and in no way indicates she is not a willing participant. If you watch she grabs him back and it is totally consensual.

He comes off as cocky, but he also totally treats her as an equal. I like the fact that she takes charge of her own rescues instead of the tired old trope of the swooning damsel in distress. For many of us it was a refreshing change and a powerful influence that women can do anything men can do. She had to take charge as they didn't exactly have the perfect plan and ended up making it up as they went along. If she hadn't they may not have escaped.

One of the reasons they fell for each other was the fact that it was the first time either met someone that spoke the same language and wasn't intimidated by them, but treated them as equal.

 

That is not accurate.

For the first half of the movie, based entirely on her dialogue, Leia clearly indicates she has no romantic interest in Han (of course, we know better). He refers to her as "sweetheart" several times, which is typical harassment behavior. In the scene where he first kisses her, he takes her hands and she says "stop that" - not once but twice. He didn't back off in the slightest, but kept moving in because Han knows that no means yes. As I said above, he is a dashing scoundrel with a heart of gold, and the audience also knows that no means yes, so we love him for his cocksuredness. You've even got that scene as your avatar.

 

Watch her body language, especially at the beginning, starting with the look on her face when he announces that he is leaving and she immediately follows him to convince him to stay. Her reaction when he bring up the subject of her feelings makes it clear her feelings are contrary to her words.

Are you gonna say that someone who can take on Vader wouldn't hesitate to kick his ass if she wanted to.

 

That's exactly the point I am making, so thank you for helping me make it. She verbally rebuffs his advances - several times in fact - but her "no's" really mean "yes." Her body language speaks volumes and Han ignores her when she says "stop that" (both times).

Leia stands up to Vader but she hardly does anything that could be considered "taking him on."

 

Don't mean to bring up a OT vs PT debate but naturally peeps r comparing L&H with A&P (hee hee, like the store) Leia & Pads had very similar backgrounds. I can see y Leia fell 4 Han. Older, good-looking, bad boyish & brave. But Pads falling 4 Ani? He was younger, immature, inexperienced (with the ladies) & overly emotional. At least he was good looking.

That should be the real question.

 

It's not uncommon for people under duress. It happens a lot in war/combat situations, or even places like a hospital where there's a lot of stress, and only other people in that situation could fully understand it. It's stressful, it's closeknit/tight-quarters, it's anxiety and adrenaline. and people fall into each other's arms, people who normally wouldn't even think of hooking up. Of course, once the situation ends,and you have these same 2 people now attempting to co-exist in real life, a lot of times it doesn't work. without the common link of whatever the situation was that brought them together in the first place, they change back to who they really are, and find they cannot co-exist. Not to mention Leia,being involved with the Rebellion for so long,and being a Senator before that, perhaps didn't have much time for dating and stuff like that,if at all. Han may have been the first man in a long time,or perhaps ever, to truly go after her. Much like your first crush, or the first person you have a serious relationship with, you "love" them, even if you really don't truly "LOVE" them. Again, it's the feelings of adrenaline,the newness of the relationship, the euphoria they make you feel, that you truly love. Indeed, the scene in the Carbonite Freezing Chamber speaks volumes I think. Leia openly proclaims her "love", for perhaps the first time to a man she thinks is about to die. Han's reply of " I know." is telling, in that perhaps doesn't truly love her, at least at that point. He's obviously attracted to her, and has feelings for her, but he's not " Oh, let's get married and have babies if i live!" ... Indeed,earlier, after they seem to be opening up about how they feel about each other, Leia professes her fear/sadness that soon after they leave Bespin Han will be gone as well,leaving her and the Rebellion behind. AND HE DOESN'T DENY THIS!! Just looks down guiltily for a second.

 

If there is one romantic relationship in all of cinema that I have never understood, it is the relationship between Leia Organa and Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back. What did Leia see in Han? When she first met him in A New Hope, he was only concerned with money and was unconcerned with the fate of the Rebel Alliance. First impressions are powerful and can be almost impossible to reverse.

Furthermore, he was creepy throughout the entirety of The Empire Strikes Back and kept hitting on Leia after she had repeatedly rejected his romantic advances. At one point she called him delusional and said that she would rather kiss a Wookie than kiss him. It seemed as if Han was only concerned about getting into her pants and never cared about her as a person.

Leia was clearly uncomfortable in Han's presence, in much the same way that Padmé was clearly uncomfortable around Anakin in Attack of the Clones. However, at least Padmé often laughed in Anakin's presence. At least they never insulted each other. I could definitely see a spark of attraction between them. However, I could never see any spark of attraction between Han and Leia until after their first kiss. Then it was as if that one kiss was suddenly able to make Leia fall in love with him.

In the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back, Han continually talks back to Leia. When she first addresses him, he sarcastically responds, "Yes, Your Highnessness." In real life, neither a princess nor a general would ever approve of a man who constantly spoke down to her, much less ever fall in love with such a man.

What did Leia see in Han? He was self-centered, cocky, arrogant, sarcastic, condescending, creepy, reckless, undisciplined, and had no respect for authority. He was in serious debt to a vile gangster who was his former boss, and his ship was constantly broken.

Leia was a cold, unemotional, and highly rational character, but no rational woman would ever fall in love with such a man. Leia's attraction to Han seems inconsistent with her character.

 

Because he's Han freaking Solo

 

"Mysogynist" would mean that Han hates women. Nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to Leia, it is pretty clear he respects her and longs for her approval and love. He even asks Luke in ANH whether a princess could love a guy like him, indicating that he thinks himself below Leia.

Does he go about it in the wrong macho way? Yes, sort of. It's because he is a former low life criminal. Nobody was there to teach him manner or ethics. He uses the faulty recipes that he learned (and that were probably used on him as well by people like Sana Starros). But you can't ignore all the times that Han risks his life for his friends. If he had not rescued Leia from Hoth, which shows how much he really cares for her, she would probably be dead. And that, imo, weighs heavier than some small macho-esque acts.

 

To me, Han may have meant well when trying to bond with Leia, but he was doing it in the lousiest way possible. As Pevra said, he grew up as a low-life criminal, not in some grand noble palace surrounded by people who would've taken great care to instruct him on proper manners around women and royalty. To him, his actions IS all right because that's what he's always known. If anything else, he may just be a bumbling idiot when it comes to flirting with women.

 

She's just playing hard to get, as alot of women do that......

 

Yep. And she didn't take kindly to him. Her responses to him are quite vicious. She calls him "quite the mercenary", and wonders if he cares about anybody.

By the end of the movie, Han proves otherwise. He comes back.

Btw, I think calling him a mercenary, and forming a negative opinion of him just because he didn't want to join her revolution and get himself killed in a suicidal assault, is ridiculously unfair.

Not everyone has to join your cause, especially when it involves dying. I wouldn't have joined her cause, and I wouldn't have come back.

Perhaps Leia realizes that she was wrong to judge him so harshly for being unwilling to join her at first.

I don't agree. I think first impressions are overrated, and certainly nowhere near impossible to reverse. I think Star Wars makes this abundantly clear, over and over and over.

Regardless, Leia's first impression of Han is obviously no longer relevant at the very beginning of ESB. She says the Rebellion needs Han, and that he is a natural leader. Obviously something has changed, causing her to change her opinion of him.

Oh, no! Not that!

Force forbid they treat each other as equals.

I don't think he speaks down to her, I think he speaks to her square in the eye. This is actually a thing princesses like in fiction. In fiction, princesses don't like being treated as superior. They like being treated as equals. They like it when someone treats them as they would treat anyone else.

Not to mention it was Leia who blew off his goodbye to her...and then followed and shouted after him. After being blown off like that, and then shouted after, I'd be sarcastic, too.

I think the criticism of Han on Hoth is completely overblown.

Han reaches out to her when he says, "I guess this is it". It's an attempt at a meaningful goodbye. She blows him off.

He gets upset at that...but leaves. Walks away. It is Leia that follows him.

Leia says, "we need you".
Han asks, "what about you need?"
Leia says, "I don't know what you're talking about", once again blowing off him reaching out to her.

What does he say next? Does he get creepy? Nope. He says "probably don't", and walks away. He's fed up, tired of her rejecting him when he reaches out to her, so he lets it go, and walks away. Once again, she follows him.

This is twice now he has walked away from her.

LEIA: And what precisely am I supposed to know?

She knows. She's in denial here. Han knows it, too.

HAN: Come on! You want me to stay because of the way you feel about me.
LEIA: Yes. You're a great help to us. You're a natural leader...
HAN: No! That's not it. Come on. Aahhh - uh huh! Come on.
LEIA: You're imagining things.
HAN: Am I? Then why are you following me? Afraid I was going to leave without giving you a goodbye kiss?

Han's calling her on her **** here. Either admit your feelings, or **** off.

Han's trying to be an adult. He's tired of games. He's about to leave Leia, this is maybe the last time he'll ever see her. He loves Leia, and he wants her to say it back. Or at least admit she feels something for him. Leia is afraid to admit it.

After this, Han walks away, for the third time. Later, we see Threepio is sent to talk to Han. Threepio tells Han that Leia has been trying to talk to Han. Han switched off the communicator, he didn't want to talk to Leia. Han walks away from Leia three times, now he won't answer her phone calls. He's not stalking her here.

Clearly, something happened in between ANH and ESB, something between Han and Leia, they developed feelings for each other, and we're seeing it play out early in ESB.

At no point during all of this does Han get insanely creepy and go all emo poet on her the way Anakin did with Padme, ratcheting the intensity up to 11.

He actually keeps things pretty light, considering the moment. "Well, don't get all mushy on me. So long."

Well, self-centered, cocky, arrogant. I don't like those traits. But I don't think those traits truly describe Han. I think it's an act, and you can see it when he really gets in trouble, he usually drops the act, and gets serious. When they're close to death, he's all business, and you can see the genuine concern, the fear, in him. For me, that makes it more about humor, than genuine arrogance.

When Anakin says the insanely arrogant things he says, he believes them. It's no act.

But, apparently, cocky and arrogant is a thing some women like. Or, so I've heard, even from women. This whole "swag" idiocy. What is swag, if not self-absorbed, cocky, delusional arrogance? So, I guess, to these idiots who like swag, Han has it.

Oh, and sarcastic? I LOVE sarcasm. And, judging by how often Leia is sarcastic, I'm guessing she likes sarcasm, too. So that's really a point in Han's favor.

"Undisciplined" and "no respect for authority" are non-points. Leia has no respect for authority, she's a damn rebel.

Again, pointing out Han's debt and his broken ship says more about you than anyone else. Leia doesn't care about money, she's been rich. Leia doesn't care about something as superficial as a man's ship.

[quote="Scott109"Leia was a cold, unemotional, and highly rational character, but no rational woman would ever fall in love with such a man. Leia's attraction to Han seems inconsistent with her character.[/quote]

lolwut?

Leia, cold and unemotional? Are you kidding me?

What a hilarious notion.

 

I think the chemistry sells the romance, but it helps with novels and comics developing things retroactively in between the movies.

 

Han had made it clear that he had rescued her purely for money.


"I'm not in it for your revolution and I'm not in it for you, Princess, I expect to be well paid - I'm in it for the money."

Reasonable for her to take him at his word.

Han's "You could use a good kiss" remark is pretty jerky - whether or not he believes it. There's a fine line between "being honest" and being a jerk - and at this point he's crossed that line.


The TESB deleted scene (and the TESB novelization) turn the subtext into outright text:


"I thought you had decided to stay."
There seemed to be real concern in Leia's voice, but Han could not be certain.
"That bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mantell changed my mind."
"Does Luke know?" she asked.
"He'll know when he gets back," Han replied gruffly.
Princess Leia's eyes narrowed, her gaze judging him with a look he knew well.
For a moment Han felt like one of the icicles on the surface of the planet.
"Don't give me that look," he said sternly. "Every day more bounty hunters are searching for me. I'm going to pay off Jabba before he sends any more of his remotes, Gank killers, and who know what else. I've got to get this price off my head while I still have a head."
Leia was obviously affected by his words, and Han could see that she was concerned for him as well as, perhaps, feeling something more.
"But we still need you," she said.
"We?" he asked.
"Yes."
"What about you?" Han was careful to emphasize the last word, but really wasn't certain why. Maybe it was something he had for some time wanted to say but had lacked the courage—no, he amended, the stupidity—to expose his feelings. At the moment there seemed to be little to lose, and he was ready for whatever she might say.
"Me?" she said bluntly. "I don't know what you mean."
Incredulous, Han Solo shook his head. "No, you probably don't."
"And what precisely am I supposed to know?" Anger was growing in her voice again, probably because, Han thought, she was finally beginning to understand.
He smiled. "You want me to stay because of the way you feel about me."
Again the princess mellowed. "Well, yes, you've been a great help," she said, pausing before going on, "… to us. You're a natural leader—"
But Han refused to let her finish, cutting her off in midsentence. "No, your worship. That's not it."
Suddenly Leia was staring directly into Han's face with eyes that were, at last, fully understanding. She started to laugh. "You're imagining things."
"Am I? I think you were afraid I was going to leave you without even a …" Han's eyes focused on her lips, "…kiss."
She began to laugh harder now. "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookiee."
"I can arrange that." He moved closer to her, and she looked radiant even in the cold light of the ice chamber. "Believe me, you could use a good kiss. You've been so busy giving orders, you've forgotten how to be a woman. If you'd have let go for a moment, I could have helped you. But it's too late now, sweetheart. Your big opportunity is flying out of here."
"I think I can survive," she said, obviously irked.
"Good luck!"
"You don't even care if the—"
He knew what she was going to say and didn't let her finish. "Spare me, please!" he interrupted. "Don't tell me about the Rebellion again. It's all you think about. You're as cold as this planet."
"And you think you're the one to apply some heat?"
"Sure, if I were interested. But I don't think it'd be much fun." With that, Han stepped back and looked at her again, appraising her coolly. "We'll meet again," he said. "Maybe by then you'll have warmed up a little." Her expression had changed again. Han had seen killers with kinder eyes.
"You have all the breeding of a Bantha," she snarled, "but not as much class. Enjoy your trip, hot shot!" Princess Leia quickly turned away from Han and hurried down the corridor.

 

Oh, I know that Han rescued her purely for the money. I was well aware of that dialogue when I made my post.

Is there something wrong with rescuing someone not for their revolution or for their sake, but for money? Is that necessarily mercenary, and indicative that the person doesn't care about anyone or anything? Is that worthy of harsh judgment and vicious remarks? I don't think one example, in which he actually helped rescue her, is sufficient to say a complete stranger is "quite the mercenary", and to question if he cares about anything or anyone. I think she's being unfair, there. Who the hell is she that someone, a complete stranger, should rescue her for free, or at all?

Remember, this was Han's response to Leia saying, "it's not over yet". It was for Han. He wanted to make that clear. This was after she blew off his rescue of her, and their escape from the TIE fighters as easy, and not too hard. Yeah, she was right about the tracking, but what the hell? How about you don't undercut his efforts so quickly like that? What kind of gratitude is that? Why the hell should he be "in it" for her, when she hasn't given him so much as a "thank you"? And then she tried to give him an order after they got out of the garbage compactor? Again, who the hell does she think she is? He's not under her command. Yeah, Han did some stupid stuff, but she stills owes her rescue to him and Luke, and she's not Han's princess, to be giving him commands.

"You could use a good kiss" can be seen as a bit slimy, I agree, but it was a direct response to Leia saying she'd rather kiss a Wookiee. Well, Han knows a Wookiee. It's a bit of a joke, and a biting remark made during a impassioned argument. And, regardless of the novelization (didn't bother reading the quote), Han storms off in the movie.

I stand by what I said. The criticism of Han on Hoth is overblown.

Now, his behavior on the Falcon during the chase in ESB, is something I'm far less comfortable defending.

 

IMO, I think it all starts in ANH. I think there is an instant attraction between Han and Leia. Not so much to the cliched point of love at first sight, but a mutual attraction. Add to it both being strong willed, independent people, and the wall of self preservation instantly goes up, hence the immediate bickering. The problem in the jump from the end of ANH to the beginning of ESB is we aren't privy to the events between the two movies, so you sort of have to accept that things happened between them to build the feelings they have for each other. And since we don't get to see what happened between the movies, they are sort of forced to escalate the build up between Han & Leia.

I liked the way the rescue was done, in that it allowed the falling in love arc to go either way. She could have fallen for Luke who got her out of her cell, but instead it ends up, 'Hey thanks for getting me out of my cell, but this guy's hot'. I also like that they didn't wind the love story around Luke and the nice guy gets the girl at the end kind of thing. Or the Leia sees the error of her ways and goes to the nice guy(Luke) who's been quietly pining for her the entire time, at the end to redeem her character's poor choice of dating the bad boy.

The best line in the whole Han & Leia love story is when Han is in the hangar bay and C3PO comes up and tells him Leia is trying to reach him and Han says,"I don't want to talk to her." Having his feelings hurt by Leia has brought out the petulant child in Han.

 

Someone who's witnessed Han doing some stupid, endanger-the-group things more than once. Firing at the garbage masher walls nearly got them killed with ricochets, firing back into it after they got out could have attracted stormtroopers.


Hence Leia's attempt to take over leadership of the group for the duration of the escape.