The Hidden Clues in the Music of the Saga

Ironically, I just elaborated on that same section of music, 2 post's ago!

 

Those three notes when Vader is hurling the stuff, was used in the ROTS trailer as well. Can't remember whether it was used in the film though.

 

couple of things I noted.
First, the Luke theme and the star wars theme are not really the same. Simply put, luke has no true theme of his own. The star wars theme (main theme) has always been the "good guys on screen" theme and applies to anakin as much as luke. Couple of spots I remember this theme specifically are in the opening track of rots...
Just after the entire battle field (space) is revealed (after drums end) is a very virtuoso rendition of the main theme. Also, anakin blowing up the droid control ship has the same type of main theme rendition. You are correct that the end of rots is the first time that theme is soft and "Heartwarming" I believe. No other parts come to mind.
Also, the three note sith theme that was discussed does not truly appear in the PT. The whole opening to "the duel" is reused in anakin vs obi-wan for the Yoda and Sidious part of the fight. I don't know that that should be viewed as a sith theme for that reason alone. Really, each major sith has his own piece of music that identifies him. Maul has duel of the fates (true, reused for the emperor and yoda and anakin's bike scene in aotc). Very powerful and disturbing as maul was himself. I only credit this piece with maul specifically because the other darth maul music "the sith spacecraft" uses the same language and whispery chorus which is heard no where else.
Dooku, being onscreen very little and only as a sith for five minutes might be considered the "confrontation with dooku" track from aotc. Kind of formal and confused in my mind.
Anakin had the "Enter Lord Vader" song that is very impressive and grand, but obviously he fails. Then he gets with the imperial march.
Then the Emperor gets his own theme, aptly named "the emperor's throne room." Prior to episode vi there is no real music associated with the emperor.

Much of these themes were used in other places and for different reasons. Williams's score attempts a Leitmotif type of style, failing only when specific themes are applied to characters rather than the events being portrayed on screen. For instance, the trade federation theme (which is also the same NOTES as vader marching on the temple and the arena) is first heard when the staps and aats are driving toward the palace in episode one. Repeated in a militaristic tone in "the arena" and obi-wan looking down on the clones, and throughout episode three. This is "the trade federation theme" only because it is first heard with the droid army in episode 1 and associate with them from then on. The only THEMES that apply to a character or group in reality are those labeled so on the album names. For instance "Anakin's theme", "Leia's theme", and "Imperial march (Darth Vader's theme)". Others are simply associated best with the character we hear it paired with the most.

 

Lucas and Williams have both called the main theme Luke's theme.

 

They may refer to it as that, but they never titled it that. Originally star wars was subtitled "The adventures of luke skywalker." but now it's anakin's story. All I was saying was that we are trying to apply hidden meanings between CHARACTERS because a certain chain of notes repeats in different scenes.
It may be 'Luke's theme' but that doesn't mean that because it plays while anakin blows up the droid control ship that somehow this has anything to do with luke. My point was, the main star wars theme, however it began, now applies as a "heroes being heroic" theme as much for anakin as luke. I think of it the same way as I think of a repeating sound effect for a specific vague thing. sometimes using the force causes an audible rumble, sometimes not, but it's a generalized sound for multiple actions to clue the viewer in that "something magic" is happening (Also to make sure we know the reason for seemingly impossible coincidences)

 

You guys should all come to the music forum! We have great fun over there.

A lot of you have pointed out some great points. It is in the places that the music reveals more than the film where John Williams sets himself apart from less able composers. Here's one of my most favourite examples:

As The Millenium Falcon is drawn into the Death Star in ANH, most composers would dribble out some sombre hopeless background music. However, here, Williams uses a rousing rendition of the Rebel Fanfare, and if that wasn't enough, he repeats it, louder, longer, and even more grand! Instead of the crew of the Falcon and the audience thinking "Oh, Sithspit..." We are all left thinking "This is going to be SOOOO COOOOL!!!" Williams uses this rousing fanfare to remind us that the crew are going to have an exciting, swashbuckling time inside the Death Star. That is the sort of thing that makes audiences connect with the film.

Another great, and very similar moment where the music provides a great clue to the story is when The Millenium Falcon enters the Death Star II in ROTJ. Here an older cue from ANH, "TIE fighters attck" is revisited. What happened in the first cue? Luke and Han blasted some TIE fighters as they escaped the Death Star, and they were victorious. So as soon as the audience hears it again, we immedietly know that the Falcon will be successful in its attempt. Plus, the cue rocks.

 

Since we here the Imperial March in AotC I guess it's no longer Darth Vader's theme regardless of how it's labeled on the track listing.

Also, isn't that really a version of the Force theme played for Anakin in RotS and not the Star Wars theme?

 

The part of ROTS title that I meant is 1:40 into the soundtrack. It's definitely the same exact notes as "binary sunset", but played once again in a militaristic style. As far as the imperial march, the problem is that The Imperial March is not the imperial march if you watch the films 1-6. As I said in my original post, williams fails at using leit motifs to some degree because if he is referencing a specific character with a theme, it still gets used incorrectly for some reason. AOTC technically creates the imperial march when there is no empire because of the out of order productions. Williams is referencing to the Star Wars fan something that is nonexistent. Why he named the imperial march (darth vader's theme) is beyond me, I was simply saying he has specified in the track title that this music means Darth Vader.

Williams writes a song for a specific reason, even assigns that song a specific character, then uses it for other moments because it sounds great. I was only trying to say that saying a scene references Luke because it plays "luke's theme" may not really mirror the thoughts behind using that music. So some really far out explanations like "there were seventeen notes of jar jar's theme played during "Luke's first crash" means that Jar-Jar had some remote connection to Luke crashing" might not be true.

I liked the observation about the empire "dark side theme," and listening to it today, it's actually four notes, not three, and it IS to my ear the first four notes of Duel of the Fates. Good catch guys.

 

The Binary Sunset cue, which is also played during the RotJ funeral pyre sequence (exactly as is), is a variation of Ben's theme/the Force theme according to Williams in the booklet for the Trilogy box set. Luke's theme/main theme is heard when Beru calls to Luke when the jawas are selling the droids and when baby Luke is first seen on the Lars homestead. It then segues into the Binary Sunset cue. The Force theme/Binary Sunset is what is referenced for numerous characters when using the Force and for the cue in question.

 

For anyone interested, the following thread has a list of all places where the Force/Ben's theme is used/referenced.

http://boards.theforce.net/star_wars_and_film_music/b10190/20103058/p1/?40

 

If the binary sunset cue is the force theme, then there are a lot of times in a new hope that I never realized people were using the force. I'm not questioning your fact about what williams or lucas have referred to, I believe you that this is meant to be a force theme and that makes a lot of sense. I also understand that the luke theme is different. But the two are mixed throughout the saga. Most of the instances of luke's theme in the OT there is one stanza of luke followed by the "force" theme. The "force" theme is used in inappropriate places as well. I believe this is featured heavily in the burning homestead, binary sunset, luke coming to cloud city, the imperial walkers destroying the rebel troops, the entire celebration ending finale of a new hope. Where is the force in these places. Binary sunset is BEFORE Luke meets Ben, so what sense does it make for this to be Ben's theme? and why does ObiWan never have this theme in the PT???
The point I have been trying to illustrate in my posts was that williams's "themes" do not apply to what is on screen in every place that they are used. Especially OT themes used in PT. These themes do not exist when viewing the movies according to Lucas's order, and have no reference. We don't know that this is the force theme in episode one, and we don't know that there will be an empire at the end of AOTC.
However, an interesting trend in the "Force theme" if that's what it truly is:
The times that I have mentioned that it is used in PT, (Droid control ship destruction, Opening battle ROTS) it is full of bravado and very bombastic. Throughout the OT it is soft and melancholy, except the ANH celebration. I'm at work so I can't listen to the music, so if I'm forgetting or overlooking things, please do correct me.

 

According to the booklet from the trilogy box set, Williams originally scored this scene using Luke's theme. Lucas heard it and asked him to use Ben's/Force theme instead, because "George's feeling was that since Luke dreamed of leaving Tatooine and becoming an adventurous spacepilot, Ben's theme is better in that context. It gives a reflective, contemplative feeling to the score."

 

That's my point. Outside influences on the music draw away from a "Thematic" interpretation based on characters. George LIKED that music better for THAT scene is all it comes down to sometimes.

 

The Imperial March wasn't "created" in AoTC...it was first appeared (in episode order) in TPM as part of Anakin's theme. Basically it is both Vader's and the Empire's theme.

In TPM, it's very soft, almost silent, a kind of foreshadowing of things to come.

When we hear it in AOTC, full blast, it's meant to signify the Empire...which doesn't exist yet, but the scene signifies, essentially the birth of the Empire...the beginning of the war that the Empire will form out of.

In ROTS, it's about fighting the empire, good vs evil. But it's a much more personal fight.

In ANH...well it hadn't been written yet but I'm hoping Williams will revisit the film for the boxset release and put it in there somewhere.

In TESB, it's the first time we really see the might of the Empire, their grip on the galaxy...the first time we see the Empire's military might (excluding the Death Star)...and it refers back to AOTC when we first saw the clone army getting ready for the upcoming war that had started on Geonosis. Later on, we get the slower version from ROTS, when Luke fioghts Vader, again, good vs evil but on a personal scale...with hints of Duel of the Fates.

In ROTJ, the last time we hear the Imperial March, it echos TPM, when Vader dies...it's soft, quiet, like the version in Anakin's Theme...while in TPM it was meant to foreshadow events, in ROTJ, it brings an end to the struggle...an end to Vader and the Empire.


As for the FOrce Theme...in the Musical Journey DVD, the title of the video is called Light of the Force.

 

Another one that I just recently discovered, and am embaressed to say I never heard, is the "Augie's Muninciple Band" in TPM. This is the Emperor's Theme changed to a march in a major key! It really throws a spin on the whole "happy ending" of TPM (assuming that your watching theme in order).