Index The Jedi Way-The Jedi Discussion, Index, and Challenge Thread--First challenge up-- pg 2!

I guess I'm one of those who don't really see any big contradiction about those pesky MDs. I think that's the influence of watching the PTs before the OTs. I didn't even know that the MDs were so controversial until I got into the fandom. The way I see it, it's all about the metaphysical: imho the physical/biological aspect of Force-sensitivity don't annul the moral/spiritual.

 

*laughing* You know, I'm working on a graduate degree in biochemistry, so I periodically run into mitochondria in a professional capacity... but my first encounter with the idea was actually when I was a kid reading A Wind in the Door by L'Engle, in which mitochondria were inhabited by even tinier creatures called farandolae which danced with each other, took root, and could be seduced into self-destructive behavior by Echthroi.

I digress. Introducing midichlorians is kind of like introducing "psions" as the subatomic/energy particle involved in transmitting telepathy -- it doesn't necessarily eliminate the mystical/fantastic aspects, and it's one more thing to play with, and I don't really mind either way.

 

Such interesting discussinos. They're all interesting; Ophelia went way further into comparison with existing religions and lazykbys_left more techinical explanation is quite plausible. I remember a quote from George Lucas saying that the Force was meant to be a distillation of all religions and beliefs, which sounds a right to me; the Force is a mongrel. Quite a lot of religions are not logical at all, so the Force fits in with that quite well.


How do you perceive the Force, particularly the idea of midichlorians?

I think the midichlorians are just a primitive lifeform that can be used as a marker for Force sensitivity and serve as a connection between a being's consciousnes and the Force. They must defy any technological means of harnessing the Force, otherwise someone would have done it.

I also think that they are a plot device that GL came up with as a way to communicate to the audience about how Qui-Gon to recognizes Anakin's potential; there really wasn't much other reason to bring them up in the other movies, but they did come in handy when Palpatine dangled this legend about using the midichlorines to end death.

How do you believe the Jedi perceived the Force?

The likely percieve it as a shadow on their own senses, like Luke saying that he could almost see the remote to Ben in ANH. I suppose it would most likely appears as light or dark, though other Jedi could perceive it as sound, hot, cold, maybe even smell and taste, or senses that other species have. Jedi also would perceive it as an impulse to do something (especially in an emergency) or sensing feeling from other people as well as just being aware of their surroundings.

Qui-Gon Jinn warns us to be ?mindful of the living Force??what is this, and how does it relate to the midichlorians?

I think that this is just another version of Obi-Wan's advice "trust your feelings". I think that Jedi training focuses a lot on teaching how to perceive the Force amidst just random thoughts and impulses. Luke Skywalker was able to catch on as fast as he did because he had his father's midichlorine count.

Without training, someone could go through their whole life without knowing where the source of their good intution was, or that it could be controlled or enhanced with practice. Anakin would have just been a fantastic pilot if he hadn't been a Jedi.

What about the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force?

I think that the light and the dark sides of the Force are just manifestations of the people who use the Force, not the Force itself. The light and dark are just characteristics of the users.

Are they one or are they separate?

I think that they're one. The Force was out of balance because the users of the Force had become so polarized between dark and light. The Jedi Order's problem was that they had become polarized and didn't even see it.

How do you believe the Jedi perceive these ideas?

Hmmmmmmm, they likely have long, boring seminars about that one. Their opinions could be all over the map.

 

Welcome to all the new faces!

First, thanks to ardavenport, whose two fics Pretense and Possessions have been added to the index!

I'm sorry it took me awhile--I've been a tad busy.

As promised, our first challenge!

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[b][i][color=dodgerblue]First Challenge[/i][/b][/color]

[b]For this challenge, you're going to need to bring out your favorite Jedi Master and youngling/Padawan. You can use either canon or OC characters. It is your Master's task to explain the Force, in any way you think logical, to your youngling/Padawan. What way would make the most sense for the youngling? How does your Master see the Force? Is your Master going to try to warn the youngling/Padawan about the Dark Side? Is your duo going to disagree? Your Padawan does not necessarily have to be the Master's Padawan any longer--he or she may have already been knighted if you'd like.

Deadline for this challenge will be two weeks from today, on [color=red]June 23, 2006[/color]. Go back to the first post to see the guidelines. There are no length requirements. You can pm me a link to your story, or post a link within this thread.[/b]

[hr]

Okay, all. Let's flex those philosophical muscles and see what we can come up with!

 

A very interesting first challenge, I might try to do something about that, well, unless DRL crashes down on me, it dose that sometimes.

 

What about the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force? Are they one or are they separate?

I don't have a lot to time to wax philosophical, but I think the light and dark are all part and parcel of the Force and its the beings perceptions of good/evil or motivations that color the so-called opposite natures.

A simple quote I'm using elsewhere (mine): Life had no concept of right or wrong. Things happened as they would, and sentient beings put a stamp of fairness or unfairness on the results.

I would say the same thing about "light" vs "dark." If you pull from "human" hate or anger to harm someone, you're pulling on the Force to do bad, but if you harm someone in the pursuit of saving someone (self-defense, an innocent being attacked) you are doing the same thing but with a different motivation.

In either case, you're still pulling on the Force to do the same thing, but your motivation makes it light or dark.

 

*sees challenge*

*grins*

Yeahhhh!

 

Poking my head in to say what a great idea for a thread...

I've read everyone's thoughts with great interest...

and a challenge!

*must resist!* lol

Great job Luna!

 

This topic has popped up on another thread. That's been discussed here so I thought I'd ask: what does 'balancing the Force' mean? What does it mean for it to be 'unbalanced' in the first place and how does it get that way? Generally, one thinks of balance=good and imbalance=bad, but is that how all Force-users see it?

The short version of how I might write it in my fics is that the Force had become unbalanced because of the polarization of light and dark at the end of the Old Republic. The Jedi Order was at it's height. They had maximized their potential with the light side of the Force and were completely blind to the dark side. They were just out-maneuvered by Palpatine who used methods that old-fashioned, bad-guy Sith never would have even though of, and the Jedi didn't think of either. The Jedi were so tied up with going to either going to the light or dark sides that they never even thought about going sideways, which is what Luke Skywalker did in the end.

 

*digs up thread* Hm. Missed the challenge. Oh well.

I explained my preference earlier for the idea that the dark side itself is less a "side" to find balance with than an imbalance in itself, so.... *grin* Now, if the Jedi saw it that way, then this would actually suggest that the Jedi didn't feel the Dark Side was so suppressed and inactive as all that, if they were expecting somebody to come balance things -- even though they thought the Sith were safely out of the way. This seems reasonable enough to me, as I don't think the state of the Force is wholly dependent on organized Force-users.

What the Jedi expected... I really am at something of a loss. I know some people think the most obvious interpretation all along was that "bringing Balance to the Force" meant making the Sith and the Jedi equal in numbers, and that the Jedi should have figured out that if they were sitting pretty and their ancient enemy had been gone for a thousand years, then a prophecy about "balance" would mean bad, bad things for them. I think it's clear that the Jedi must have expected "balance" to mean something else, but I don't have any satisfactory theories on what. The dark-side-as-imbalance theory works decently there, but even so, either they thought things still needed work (entirely possible) or they were indeed expecting that things would in some way get worse before they got better (also possible, and would maybe explain some of the doubt and the lack of enthusiasm). I sort of wish we'd ever seen the whole text of the prophecy, but probably it would just have opened up a whole new set of arguments.

 

How do you perceive the Force, particularly the idea of midichlorians? I'm totally forceblind, so I don't percieve it at all. Sorry, couldn't resist. Well, the midichlorians does fit in with what Obi-Wan told Luke about the force, as it being an energy that is in every living thing and binds us together. Though I feel it makes it to much like science and makes it to complicated. I prefer the KISS method... keep it simple stupid. I also like the more spiritual take on things.


How do you believe the Jedi perceived the Force? I wrote a story about two jedi and their padawans having to go sabotage a compound that was using an experimental machine which could simulate the same effect that ysalimir produce naturally. It got me to think about how they would percieve things when they don't have the force. I mean, even before they are trained, they can percieve the force, for it has always been with them... especially if those midichlorians are there at birth.. or even before birth. It would be something they would almost take for granted is there. Like air for instance. You breath, therefore the air is there. You don't think about it until you have a lack of it, such as when you go to a high altitude, or are under water for too long. And like air, when the wind blows, we can percieve the currents and it's affects on the trees because the branches sway. I guess that is how the Jedi would percieve the Force.


Qui-Gon Jinn warns us to be ?mindful of the living Force??what is this, and how does it relate to the midichlorians? Well, the midichlorians are living things... very small living things that seem to be attracted to strong currents in the force. So, I guess that's where they tie into anything to do w/ the force. I suggest there is not just the living force and the unifying force, but a third, the omni force.

The living force is what beings are attuned to for basic survival, or what is needed to get a task done in the present. Those who paid more attention to the living force lived in the present... sort of the now of wolf thought from Elfquest where if you're hungry, hunt and go eat, if you're thirsty, find water to drink, if you're tired, sleep, if you see an attractive she-wolf, mate. Don't worry about tomorrow, just do what you need get through today.

The unifying force would be what binds us together. It helps us form bonds to others and sense what is happening to those we care about. It can even guide us to a prospective mate (though the council in the prequels ignored this natural aspect of the force ) Through the unifying force, they can sense when fellow jedi die, or when a planet full of living beings get obliterated.

The omni force is the timeless awareness. Through it, we can percieve things from the past or future.

I suggest that all three of these are three aspects of the force. None to be taken more lightly than the other. Just a thought.


What about the Light Side and the Dark Side of the Force? Are they one or are they separate? Hmm, a thoughtful question this is. Eh? Can you have the dark w/o the light? Or vice versa? Will one be able to know that the darkness is dark without seeing the light? Or vice versa? Good questions these are. Sorry, I'm up so late it's early here! It's going on 6AM and i haven't gone to bed.

I think the force is the force. The dark and light just exist within us. Selfishness is the biggest stumbling block to going towards the dark part. Anger, and all those other negative emotions most often stem from a basic selfishness. Putting others first and being compassionate is of the light side. But those are the light and dark sides of us. When we do something that is so selfish that it hurts the basic structure of the midiclorians around that area, then our darkness taints that place.

How do you believe the Jedi perceive these ideas? I believe I pretty much delved into that with the previous questions... though i'm not sure, and am now not thinki

 

Aaaaah, intriguing ideas indeed. It's tough to pin down the Force. I think part of the fun for fanfiction is that it's not specific, so it conveniently squishy depending on the needs of the fic.

Here's a bit of pointless trivia that I did for a fic; who's on the Jedi Council in the movies:


TPM seating order, going from the door, to the left, clockwise:

Depa Billaba
Eeth Koth
Yarael Poof
Adi Gallia
Oppo Rancisis
Even Piell
Yaddle
Saesee Tiin
Ki-Adi Mundi
Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon


ATOC seating order, going from the door, to the left, clockwise:

Depa Billaba?
Eeth Koth?
Horn-on-head guy
Adi Gallia?
Oppo Rancisis
Even Piell
Shaak?ti
Saesee Tiin
Ki-Adi Mundi
Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon


ROTS seating order, going from the door, to the left, clockwise:

Stass Allie
Person sitting between Kit Fisto and Stass Allie
Kit Fisto
Saesee Tiin
Orange-greenish head guy
Anakin Skywalker
Agen Kolar
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Ki-Adi Mundi
Yoda
Mace Windu
Plo Koon

 

Let me tell you, I love the tag "Orange-Greenish head guy".

On a more serious note, that is really great Ardavenport! Thanks for doing that.

 

So is this thread going to start back up? Cause I was about to try to tackle that challenge until I noticed the date. There are so many Jedi centric fics out there. Plus I love a good challenge.

 

Hmmmm, I don't know if the thread will start up, but that shouldn't get in the way of taking on a challenge. All my stories seem to be Jedi lately anyway.

 

Ah...eeeh...oooh boy. Skeleton's coming out of the closet, isn't it?

Well. I started this thread at the absolute wrong time--I started hosting awards soon afterward, and subsequently this poor thing died quite shamefully without my help. That was a really long time ago. Sheesh... Not only that, but I started it in newbie mode. I've since aged considerably--board years are like dog years, me thinks.

Nobody look at the challenge due date! I seriously don't mean it!

To be honest, I had forgotten about it since then.

I don't currently have time to go find the defibrillator, so if anyone is interested in rescuing this thing, shoot me a pm and it'll be yours. I'd be happy to assist but I don't think I can give it the attention that Cody (and certainly others) are hoping for.

 

***B......M....***
***....U.......P!***

Just bumping this up to keep the boards from re-locking this thing again.

I just wanted to comment about the new Jedi vs. Sith book (which I'm sure you all will be getting for Christmas) and I've inherited a thread. So, after the holiday, I'll post more.