Beyond - Legends The Lands of the Dead (Post-NJO AU: Anakin Solo, Jacen, Jaina, L/M,H/L,many more) New fic 4/16!

Yeah, I gotta agree with Magnus on this one: the title is very clumsy. I honestly thought you were joking when you posted it, Yoda.

 

G__Anakin: ????
????
????
Uh . . . wow? It sound interesting and good for what the story will be about but a little silly

Yeah, it's a weird one.

I can't wait to see where this goes! So . . . when's the trailer!?

A few weeks away. Look for a list of locations to be posted later this week and a dramatis after that. The trailer will be a week or two later

Edit: If you're interested in having me as the beta, contact me through PM.

Thank you very much for the offer, but I think I've got the beta situation covered now. I sincerely appreciate the offer though






Ghandalf: Well, here's the next part of my review. Again, these are all just my personal opinions, reflecting my own understanding of both canon and your work.

Awesome

Legacy of the Sith Review, Part Two- Plot and Themes
Jacen Goes Dark: I?ve already touched on this under the characters section, but I think it?s worth mentioning again- that has been handled so much better here than in canon. In addition to the better characterization involved, there?s simply the way it was handled- a tragic story in its own right, rather than just the origin for a shiny new bad guy.

Thank you, I'm glad you think this is going better than in canon. I know I've said this before, but I almost tossed the whole idea of Jacen going dark when I realized LotF was going to do the same and I feared this story would look like a cheap ripoff of canon. Thankfully, LotF went a very different direction with Jacen, and while I didn't enjoy the overall story they told, I found it extremely helpful for a number of reasons, most prominently, those under the "What not to do" category.

I also like how you can see certain parallels to two iconic movie Sith in Jacen?s story- like Dooku he arrogantly thinks he can deal with the dark powers and come away clean, only realizing when it?s too late the extent to which he?s been played, and like Vader his personal weaknesses are ruthlessly used against him by a master who wants to break him down and rebuild him into the perfect tool for ensuring Sith rule.

I always thought Rénin was more like Dooku in this equation. You are right about a certain level of arrogance on Jacen's part, but I kind of think the reasons for their arrogance, and their motivations, are vastly different. Jacen, I'm sure, would never even see it as arrogance. I completely agree about the prisoner Jacen has become being similar to Vader though, and that's definitely the impression I was trying to give in that last scene when he is completely broken down.

On the whole though, I think Jacen is a new kind of Sith we really haven't seen before, which is part of what makes it fun to explore.

Also, as I?ve mentioned before, I just like Malig better than Lumiya in the role of the tempter in this one, as he?s not a war criminal Jacen should know better than to listen to in the first place, and shares a philosophical way of looking at things that lets him manipulate Jacen in that way.

Yeah, Malig's philosophy is a natural extension of the one Jacen bought into from Vergere, so it makes sense for him to make the progression. Of course, we know now that Malig and Vergere knew each other...

A Villain with Mystique: Star Wars? best main villains have always had a certain distance about them- they?re in some way beyond ordinary humanity, and that makes them scary, whether it?s the avatar of ultimate darkness that was Palpatine, the inscrutable cipher of a man that was Thrawn, the utterly insane would-be-god that was Onimi, or the alien and powerful Abeloth. This was something LOTF lost- Lumiya and especially Caedus were characters we?d come to know as human beings, and even at their worst it was hard to see them as anything other than warped and rather pathetic people first, and as villains second. Maybe it?s just me, but when the Big Bad is a regular POV character throughout the entire story, I just think he or she loses something. You?ve managed to avoid th

 

C'mon, Wes, and out of all the titles listed above, you choose the absolute worst sounding? I mean, really, *every* title from that list better than the current one. I'm not saying that to be rude, but it really, really sounds terrible. Please think this over.

 

First off:

Similar here, though I saw it more as a path that could lead to Sithdom.

Yeah- I definitely get what you're saying there (besides, I think a complete Force explanation would take up a lot more space than a single fic!) I was talking about learning more concrete information on Malig's philosophy, what he thinks he's trying to do, what he's really trying to do (assuming they're different) and how the Jedi will respond.

Darkness done well I like (and I trust you to pull it off). It's darkness done wrong that's the problem, and I think LOTF did it wrong.

Thanks for replying, and here's the rest of my review, concerning comparisons of your additions to the universe with certain canon ones that come to mind.


Masters of the Dark Side- Darth Sidious and Darth Malig: Of all the comparisons people have made between LOTS and canon, this is perhaps the most obvious, if only because all Star Wars Big Bads (and Sith Masters most of all) live in the Emperor?s shadow. Malig and Sidious are also an interesting comparison because they are at once very much alike and very different- both are immensely powerful dark side masters and brilliant manipulators of events and people, but their motivations seem to be fundamentally distinct. Sidious only ever seemed to care about power, and to him everything, including Sith teachings and the Force itself, was nothing but a means to that end (of course, you might make a point that in doing this, he perfectly lived the heart of Sith teachings?). Malig, by contrast, seems to believe in the Sith as a religion in and of itself- and considering how unpleasant a religion at is, that is every bit as disturbing as pure ambition. At the very least he seems more into esoteric spiritual teachings for their own sake, if his plan to alter the Force itself is to be taken at face value. Overall, I have to say I personally think they?re both great villains, and am eagerly awaiting the revelation of Malig?s true history and motives.

Terrors From Beyond the Republic- The Yuuzhan Vong and the Raithians: Another comparison that easily comes to mind. I must admit, when you started LOTS I was a little worried because having another outside force attack the galaxy seemed to much like a retread, but I think you?ve done a great job at making the two groups distinct. In addition to the Raithians? much more underhandedly sneaky invasion plan, they have a very distinct ?feel? to them that I?ve mentioned before- the Vong were something very alien, the antithesis of the Republic, while the Raithians are more like a distorted mirror. Their motivations are also very different- the Vong were fanatics who thoroughly believed in their own righteousness, but the Raithians are more like the ultimate nihilists (I think I like this description best of the ones I?ve tried for them)- they don?t seem to believe in anything beyond coming out on top in the pit that is their civilization, and there?s just a general air of hopelessness, despair, and decay that clings to everything they do. I also ?like? the general gothic aesthetic feel they have, as it?s distinct from any of the other major factions and makes them memorable. Overall, some ?nicely? eerie bad guys and a good c

 

Common, give YK a break, while the title might not be the most flowing in my point of view either I think that YK has proven that he can write excellently, I'm sure the title won't affect the quality of the story no matter how strange it might sound.

Moving on, having just reread the fic I must just say masterfully done and wonder, roughly how long do you plan the next fic to be, like Lands of the Dead or longer?

 

In my opinion the title sounds excessively clumsy, which is especially strange since there obviously was a plethora of better sounding titles available. If I would not be genuinely concerned, I wouldn't give YK a hard time about it. I don't like to criticise him, but the current title sounds really too awkward.

 

Magnuskn: C'mon, Wes, and out of all the titles listed above, you choose the absolute worst sounding? I mean, really, *every* title from that list better than the current one.

It's a special talent I have

I'm not saying that to be rude, but it really, really sounds terrible. Please think this over.

No, I didn't take it as rude. I sincerely appreciate your input. I would much rather you tell me when you think something sucks than tell me you like it when you really don't.

Anyway, I am thinking about it. If there is a title I like better, I will change it in a heartbeat, but I don't want to make any promises that that is going to happen.

Thanks again





Ghandalf: Similar here, though I saw it more as a path that could lead to Sithdom.

Yeah, good point.

Yeah- I definitely get what you're saying there (besides, I think a complete Force explanation would take up a lot more space than a single fic!)

Absolutely

I was talking about learning more concrete information on Malig's philosophy, what he thinks he's trying to do, what he's really trying to do (assuming they're different) and how the Jedi will respond.

Yep, the Malig stuff is probably the biggest part of the story. Though, don't expect to know everything Malig is really trying to do until the mask comes off?it is linked to his identity.

Darkness done well I like (and I trust you to pull it off). It's darkness done wrong that's the problem, and I think LOTF did it wrong.

I agree completely.

Thanks for replying, and here's the rest of my review, concerning comparisons of your additions to the universe with certain canon ones that come to mind.

Awesome

Masters of the Dark Side- Darth Sidious and Darth Malig: Of all the comparisons people have made between LOTS and canon, this is perhaps the most obvious, if only because all Star Wars Big Bads (and Sith Masters most of all) live in the Emperor?s shadow. Malig and Sidious are also an interesting comparison because they are at once very much alike and very different- both are immensely powerful dark side masters and brilliant manipulators of events and people, but their motivations seem to be fundamentally distinct. Sidious only ever seemed to care about power, and to him everything, including Sith teachings and the Force itself, was nothing but a means to that end (of course, you might make a point that in doing this, he perfectly lived the heart of Sith teachings?).

That seems to be the case. I was hoping for more exploration of the Sith beliefs/agenda in books like the Darth Bane novels but it really does seem to be as empty as that...

Malig, by contrast, seems to believe in the Sith as a religion in and of itself- and considering how unpleasant a religion at is, that is every bit as disturbing as pure ambition. At the very least he seems more into esoteric spiritual teachings for their own sake, if his plan to alter the Force itself is to be taken at face value. Overall, I have to say I personally think they?re both great villains, and am eagerly awaiting the revelation of Malig?s true history and motives.

We'll not only find out more about what Malig believes but also why he feels that way, why he sees the role of the Sith differently than Sidious. Remember that Sidious and Malig have a history if Malig is to be believed That will definitely come up in the story.

Anyway, I think you have the right view of both characters.

Terrors From Beyond the Republic- The Yuuzhan Vong and the Raithians: Another comparison that easily comes to mind. I must admit, when you started LOTS I was a little worried because having another outside force attack the galaxy seemed to much like a retread, but I think you?ve done a great job at making the two groups distinct.

The fact that it immediately conjures up images of a Yuuzhan Vong retread for readers was one of the things I really liked about the id

 

Thanks, that is all I can ask for.

Aw, damn. Forgot to ask. But I guess with my own workload it is better if I am not a beta. Anyway, I eagerly await the teaser.

 

Planets that will appear in the final story:

Coruscant
Dathomir
Korriban
Ossus
Naraka (original world)
Denon
Yavin IV
Naboo
Tatooine
Rakata Prime (Lehon)
Zonama Sekot

 

Does this still count as "First!"?


YK: Coruscant
Dathomir
Korriban
Ossus
Naraka (original world)
Denon
Yavin IV
Naboo
Tatooine
Rakata Prime (Lehon)
Zonama Sekot

Interesting choice of planets. I take it that Rakata Prime (Lehon) was supposed to be the surprising one? Btw, $10 in Monolpoly Money says that Naraka is a Raithian world.


Did you play Dragon Age: Origins? I'm knee-deep in it at the moment, and I have to say it is freakin' awesome! Completely engrossing, amazing characters, nearly as good as KotoR

Unfortunately, I have no money for games...


I remember Grievous executing her on the Invisible Hand, Anakin sneeking up behind her at the Temple and executing her, and Vader's Secret Apprentice killing her in Force Unleashed... Was there another I'm forgetting in the comics or the clone wars or something?

Yeah... I think that's about right. Think she really bit it in Force Unleashed, or is she still not quite dead?


That was awesome Nice job, Wedge Maybe I'll just use that one!

Thanks! Although, I did draw a lot of inspiration from the Season 4 opener of Babylon 5. I'm toying around with a couple of others. Might post them, might not.


The last fic is probably the darkest of all, and to be completely honest, there are some really, really terrible things that happen in it that I'm a bit nervous about, one of which I didn't even realize was going to happen until I started work on Lands of the Dead. But I think it has to happen in order to tell the story the right way.

How "really, really terrible" are we talking here? Actually, I'm probably better off not knowing...

In regards to darkness... eh, it sort of depends for me, and can be hard to pull off right. I mean RotS, ESB, KotOR 2, BSG (excluding some sections ), and to a certain degree Lord of the Rings (movies) had dark overtones, but it wasn't *completely* over bearing (admitedly, BSG had its moments though.). "Darkness" has to fit within the story, having darkness for the sake of darkness just isn't good story telling, imo.

One issue that I have with some stories (SW or otherwise), is that they seem to randomly kill off characters for shock value and to say "Look! See, we're serious! This is teh DARK!" My $0.02: if a character is going to be killed off, it should be for the *story* and not just to keep people on edge. That said, if you have a cast of say... 50 characters, I could understand if the herd needed culling, so to speak. Just... try not to make it completely arbitrary.

Well, if I have any thoughts and/or time later, I'll post some more.

 

To tell the truth, I was surprised to see Dathomir on the list. I thought Lehon would have been there with Malachor (Garriss Shan) being an important part of the plot on Lands of the Dead. Naraka is the Raithian homeworld FTW!

EDIT: What if, and this is a completely random thought, what if the identity of Darth Malig is Ikrit. It would seem to fit why both Luke and Jacen recognized him.

 

That would be pretty hilarious. There's a bit of a size difference between him and Malig.

 

He could have leg and arm extensions. Little cute bunny goes RABID! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! lol sorry, couldn't stop myself.

 

Wedge: Does this still count as "First!"?

Sure, why not?

Interesting choice of planets. I take it that Rakata Prime (Lehon) was supposed to be the surprising one?

Yeah, probably. I thought about blackening it, but everyone knows the Star Forge is involve in some way now, so probably not super shocking.

Btw, $10 in Monolpoly Money says that Naraka is a Raithian world.

A good guess

Unfortunately, I have no money for games...

Well, I highly recommend this one when you do. It's fantastic.

Yeah... I think that's about right. Think she really bit it in Force Unleashed, or is she still not quite dead?

Oh, I'm sure they'll kill her again in TFU2.

Thanks! Although, I did draw a lot of inspiration from the Season 4 opener of Babylon 5. I'm toying around with a couple of others. Might post them, might not.

I'm all for it

How "really, really terrible" are we talking here? Actually, I'm probably better off not knowing...

Well... you know when Anakin Skywalker butchered those 4 year olds in RotS? ... Worse than that

In regards to darkness... eh, it sort of depends for me, and can be hard to pull off right. I mean RotS, ESB, KotOR 2, BSG (excluding some sections ), and to a certain degree Lord of the Rings (movies) had dark overtones, but it wasn't *completely* over bearing (admitedly, BSG had its moments though.). "Darkness" has to fit within the story, having darkness for the sake of darkness just isn't good story telling, imo.

I couldn't agree moer with everything above.

One issue that I have with some stories (SW or otherwise), is that they seem to randomly kill off characters for shock value and to say "Look! See, we're serious! This is teh DARK!" My $0.02: if a character is going to be killed off, it should be for the *story* and not just to keep people on edge.

Totally. I really loathe the shock deaths that do nothing to advance the story and only serve to make the galaxy less interesting, IMHO.

That said, if you have a cast of say... 50 characters, I could understand if the herd needed culling, so to speak. Just... try not to make it completely arbitrary.

I'll do my best...







GMK: To tell the truth, I was surprised to see Dathomir on the list.

Yeah, it hasn't been a part of the story thus far. I think it's inclusion will make sense when we get there though.

I thought Lehon would have been there with Malachor (Garriss Shan) being an important part of the plot on Lands of the Dead. Naraka is the Raithian homeworld FTW!

An interesting guess. Naraka is definitely an important world and one we'll be seeing a lot of in the story...

EDIT: What if, and this is a completely random thought, what if the identity of Darth Malig is Ikrit. It would seem to fit why both Luke and Jacen recognized him.

It would make a certain kind of sense even if there are a lot of things against, namely the differences in physiche between the two





Draconarius: That would be pretty hilarious. There's a bit of a size difference between him and Malig.

Yeah, this does seem to rule it out. Also, the backstory stuff with Malig and Sidious, which Sidious's spirit more or less confirmed to Anakin in LotD, make it impossible since Ikrit was "sleeping" at this time... unless Ikrit wasn't sleeping





GMK: He could have leg and arm extensions. Little cute bunny goes RABID! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

[image=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/YodaKenobi/frank-donnie-darko-9237.jpg]

I've mentioned before how Frank the bunny played a part in developing Darth Malig for me, didn't I?

 

Here's the dramatis for the new fic. I put new characters in red (or at least ones we haven't seen in a long, long time). There are a couple title changes hidden in the list that might be semi interesting too





Dramatis Persona:

Aero Gin; bounty hunter (female human)
Alema Rar; Jedi Knight (female Twi'lek)
Anakin Solo; Jedi Knight (male human)
Aya Osyris; Kasanaan Tribeswoman (female human)
Ayddar Nylykerka; former Galactic Alliance Intelligence Director (male Tammarian)
Baliss Phlora; Jedi apprentice (female human)
Ben Skywalker; child (male human)
Booster Terrik; captain, Errant Venture (male human)
Brosh; commander of Thrawn's household phalanx (male Chiss)
C-3PO; protocol droid
Cakhmaim; Leia Solo's bodyguard (male Noghri)
Callista Ming; Sith Acolyte (female human)
Chaf'ros'tombi; Ascendancy scientist (male Chiss)
Cilghal; Jedi Master (female Mon Calamari)
Cordoba; crime lord (male Hutt)
Corssa; Commander, Empire of the Hand (female Chiss)
Dagan Osyris; Kasanaan Tribesman (male human)
Danni Quee; scientist (female human)
Darak; assistant to the Magister (female Ferroan)
Dorrin Kogg; senate speaker (male Sermarian)
Emala; war profiteer (female Squib)
Evlyn Tabory; agent to the Chief Syndic (female human)
Faybol; Darth Malig's Hand (male Kuhr)
Ferani; Tenel Ka's Chamberlain (female human)
Fiver; Anakin Solo's astromech droid
Fyor Rodan; Chief of State of the Galactic Alliance (male human)
Garm Bel Iblis; former general (male human)
Garrison "Malachor" Shan; Jedi Knight (male human)
Gelaa; priestess, deception sect (female Yuuzhan Vong)
Ghent; Galactic Alliance Intelligence slicer (male human)
Gilad Pellaeon; Grand Admiral, Imperial Remnant (male human)
Grees; war profiteer (male Squib)
Hala Rozess; Sith spy (female Zeltron)
Han Solo; captain, Millennium Falcon (male human)
Harrow; Sith Alchemist (male Rezor)
Iella Antilles; Jedi ally (female human)
Ilandra Grim; Nightsister (female human)
Irsa; Elder (female Rakata)
Jabitha; Magister (female Ferroan)
Jacen Solo/Darth Havok; Sith apprentice, General of the Raithian Armies (male human)
Jaden Korr; Jedi Knight (male human)
Jagged Fel; Chief Syndic, Chiss Expansionary Defense Fleet (male human)
Jaina Solo; Jedi Knight (female human)
Jakan; High Priest (male Yuuzhan Vong
Jarl Pace; Imperial Remnant General (male human)
Jonah Solo; infant (male human)
Jysella Horn; Jedi apprentice (female human)
Kirana Ti; Jedi Master (female human)
Kurol; shared consciousness of Faybol's brood
Kyle Katarn; Jedi Master (male human)
Kyp Durron; Jedi Master (male human)
Kyrn; colonel, Chiss Expansionary Defense Fleet (female Chiss)
Lando Calrissian; entrepreneur ; (male human)
Leia Organa Solo; Jedi Knight (female human)
Lorra Klorne; Commander, Galactic Alliance Fourth Fleet (female human)
Lowbacca; Jedi Knight (male Wookiee)
Luke Skywalker; Jedi Master (male human)
Lura Ve; Dathomiri Witch, Singing Mountain Clan (female human)
Maichen; child (female human)
Malig; Dark Lord of the Sith (male, unknown species)
Mara Jade Skywalker; Jedi Master (female human)
Marro; former slave (female Twi'lek)
Meewalh; Leia?s bodyguard (female Noghri)
Mirax Horn; art dealer (female human)
Necil Krace; Jedi Knight (female Iktotchi)
Nen Yim; Master Shaper (female Yuuzhan Vong)
Nyll; Commander of Raithian Elite Commandos (male human)
Octa Ramis; Jedi Master (female human)
Plagueis; Sith Lord (male Muun)*
R2-D2; astromech droid
Raynar Thul; Sith acolyte (male human)
Relequy A?Kla; senator (female Caamasi)
Rowel; Assistant to the Magister (male Ferroan)
Ruu; former Shamed One (male Yuuzhan Vong)
Saba Sebatyne; Jedi Master (fema

 

Hey, Wes!

Thanks for the recognition of my beta efforts. It's been an honor.

*Scans char list*

My guys are coming back!

Will any of them survive, though?

Excellent Prologue for #4.

 

JADEN ... KYLE ... and Yuuzhan Vong ... and a Rakatan

ummmmmmmm

Aren't/weren't they extinct according to Darth Bane: Path of Destruction?

 

That's a lot of Yuuzhan Vong and old favourites, too.

Hm, Danni Quee also is back. Maybe in a bid to redeem Jacen? Heh, good luck with that.

And Ghent needs a stern reminder not to work for the bad guys. I hope he gets it.

And Jaden Korr. I guess s/he won't be gendered in your fic, either?

 

Scans the list Lots of Yuuzhan Vong. Sidious. Plagueis. Why am I suddenly scared? The list of planets is interesting too. I do think that Leia deserves to be a Jedi Master by now, though.
The following exclamation has nothing to do with this story ]
Chewbacca lives!(now if only someone could come up with a theory that doesn't sound as cheesy as mine )

 

Sidious?

What the kriff?!

 

I'm guessing we're going to see more of Sidious's spirit (who we already met in Lands of the Dead, if you'll recall). Didn't think we'd seen the last of him, though I'm wondering what his role will be, since I can't see him allying himself with any of the existing factions and it's probably hard to manipulate people when you're stuck on in a tomb on Korriban.

 

shouldn't Jag be Baron Jagged Fel now.

 

Dooku: Hey, Wes!

Hey!

Thanks for the recognition of my beta efforts. It's been an honor.

Aw, well, your help is very much appreciated

*Scans char list*
My guys are coming back!

Yep

Will any of them survive, though?

Good question One I'm not going to answer, I'm afraid

Excellent Prologue for #4.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it






GMK: JADEN ... KYLE

AND they'll actually be spending some time together.

... and Yuuzhan Vong ... and a Rakatan

Yep...

ummmmmmmm
Aren't/weren't they extinct according to Darth Bane: Path of Destruction?

Yep, that's correct. As I've always said, I can't really conform everything released in canon after to FH3 to fit this AU, even if it takes place early chronologically. There are events in Outbound Flight, for instance, that don't fit, because I began work on this series before it was released, and the new TOR game will certainly not work with this series.

So this is either one of those moment, or maybe Bane just didn't do a very good job of checking.





Magnuskn: That's a lot of Yuuzhan Vong and old favourites, too.

Sekot and the Vong are obviously going to play a big part in the last story

Hm, Danni Quee also is back. Maybe in a bid to redeem Jacen? Heh, good luck with that.

Danni too has a big role, and you can bet she'll be seeing Jacen again.

And Ghent needs a stern reminder not to work for the bad guys. I hope he gets it.

Ghent's role might surprise you.

And Jaden Korr. I guess s/he won't be gendered in your fic, either?

I think his human maleness is canon





PirateofRohan: Scans the list Lots of Yuuzhan Vong. Sidious. Plagueis. Why am I suddenly scared?

Cause Sith spirits are scary?

The list of planets is interesting too. I do think that Leia deserves to be a Jedi Master by now, though.

If and when she trains a Jedi to Knighthood, she will be. She's training Baliss at the moment, maybe that will work out. Leia's only been a full time Jedi for a few years here.

The following exclamation has nothing to do with this story ]
Chewbacca lives!(now if only someone could come up with a theory that doesn't sound as cheesy as mine )

Care to share it, or is this some sort of manual signature you're working on?





Lord_Onveh: Sidious?
What the kriff?!

As Ghandalf points out, we saw Sidious's spirit in Lands of the Dead. But...

SPOILER: We will see Sidious alive in the next story.






MasterGhandalf: I'm guessing we're going to see more of Sidious's spirit (who we already met in Lands of the Dead, if you'll recall).

Seems like a good guess.

Didn't think we'd seen the last of him, though I'm wondering what his role will be, since I can't see him allying himself with any of the existing factions and it's probably hard to manipulate people when you're stuck on in a tomb on Korriban.

My guess would be that someone journeys to Korriban. Either Anakin found Sidious's offer more enticing than he seemed to, or it's someone else...





grossmandg144: Nice to meet you

shouldn't Jag be Baron Jagged Fel now.

I don't think so. Jag is in the Chiss military, not the Empire. You'll notice that Jag did assume his father's other title though...

 

A better version of Dark Empire

Yay! Jaden and Kyle get screen time: TOGETHER!

Now... what about Rosh Penin and Raltharan? jk jk