The Last Jedi Discussion Thread - **UNTAGGED SPOILERS WITHIN**

Didn't Luke in the EU travel through a vacuum for a short while? I think he called it 'Cold Shirting' it. As I remember he ended up crashing into Mara and straddling her. This prompted Mara to ask, "Are you going to get off me, or are you just getting comfortable?" In my fics...Luke is always getting comfortable.

I assume Leia is using the Force to keep from dying. I didn't like that part of the movie, though. It looked weird. I don't mind the concept, but I think it should have been done a different way. It looked way too easy. Also, she ends up on the depressurize bridge with her hand on the door. There is a cut in the action and the next thing they have her out and are giving her aid. How did they open the door to get her out without getting pulled into the vacuum themselves? I know the answer is to seal off the area and have people in spacesuits, but that takes time.

Also, I don't believe a word that Kylo Ren says to Rey. Her parents sold her for booze and drug money? Really? I don't think so. If anything she was kidnapped by some druggies and then sold. I cannot believe she is a nobody. I am positive she is the daughter or granddaughter of a former Jedi or perhaps a Sith. Oh hell, maybe she is another virgin birth like Anakin. Or maybe Luke during his Rogue pilot days had a little too much fun with the ladies and now there are Skycrawlers all over the galaxy. I just don't believe she has such an ignoble background.

 

I'm going to have to read the Canto Bight book, because I'm curious about the guy with the red flower pin. It would seem as if he was the guy Maz sent them to find, only they didn't find him & ended up with DJ. Unless DJ was the guy with the red flower pin and lost it to gambler guy? I almost wondered, too, if the chick with red flower was the actual red flower, from the way she spoke. Of course, if Billy Dee Williams was in better health, that would have been the perfect spot for Lando!

And so many good new droids... I loved the ironing droids. Nice to see some of what happens "behind the scenes" to keep things running. I loved BB-8's disguise. I was most intrigued by the one on the bridge with Hux at the start of the film; white, very sleek, sort of looked like a curvy upside-down Y. Of course, gizkaspice having ruined me, I am now thinking that it is merely a mobile cat perch.

 

LOVED Yoda's return. Who better to literally and metaphysically knock sense into Luke?

 

‘The Last Jedi’ Doesn’t Care What You Think About ‘Star Wars’ – And That’s Why It’s Great

Interesting essay. This pair of sentences from the penultimate paragraph is a great summary: "The Last Jedi feels like a movie young George Lucas, passionate and bold, would have made. It feels like a proper Star Wars movie by refusing to feel like a Star Wars movie." And if that doesn't make sense, read the rest of the essay and you'll understand what they mean.

 

This was a great essay, and I think I agree with a lot of his points. Particularly the part about how everything DOESN'T have to be connected, Rey DOESN'T have to be the long-lost daughter of [insert here]. I know other people hate it, but I think Rian is breaking away from the Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey which we've had over and over, and going into new territory. The real question is, how will Abrams respond?

 

Wow, yeah, that was a great article. I think it spoke to several things I'd been thinking, but unable to really articulate yet. I'm glad to have read it before I go see it a second time today.

This really resonated with me. Luke was always a flawed character, but over time we've elevated him to almost someone who can do no wrong and that's unfair. Luke is human and makes mistakes. He doesn't have to be perfect to be a character you love.

I'll admit, I was one of those people who wanted Rey to be a Skywalker, if only because I desperately wanted Luke to have a child. But Rey being from 'no one' felt right when it came up. I wasn't upset at all, if anything I was pleased that they played on our expectations and then didn't fulfill them. You can't do that constantly or you'll lose your audience, but the times TLJ did it (with Rey and Snoke) I really appreciate it.

 

I'm one of those people who wanted Rey to be no one and, well, I hope JJ Abrams won't change that. The idea of a girl from the rear-end of the Galaxy where a horrible battle took place seeking an older hermit who left absolutely everything, who did not want to be adored and who initially outright rejects her is appealing to me, for some reason.

Oh, wait.

 

Can't edit, have to double-post. Here's another interesting essay. Posting it as code because of a couple of bad words in it.

Code:

https://filmcrithulk.blog/2017/12/15/the-force-belongs-to-us-the-last-jedis-beautiful-refocusing-of-star-wars/

 

Crap. Just lost everything I typed. Will try again.

1. Loved the humor even though it was mostly Poe. I loved how he trolled Hux, who fell right into the trap of spouting the "evil villain" spiel. I giggled when Poe met up again with BB8 and he ticked BB8's tummy.

2. I thought the Luke thing was ...weird. It seemed a bit OOC to me. Luke has always represented hope and resilience to me, so seeing him traumatized from something that happened THIRTY YEARS ago was strange. I understand he would have felt awful, but he would have moved on and tried to fix it, not bailed.

3. Loved seeing Leia. The part where she dresses down Poe for disobeying her orders was great. It really makes you see how she feels each loss so deeply. This woman has lost everything and she still keeps on trying to make things better (unlike her brother). I mean seriously. She lost her flipping PLANET-- her people, their history, their culture, thousands of years of civilization wiped out - and she picks up and keeps going. Luke loses his academy and retreats to the island with the Holy Sisters of Judgmental Medieval Fish for 30 years, and then REFUSES to come back and help his own sister??

4. It was interesting that Poe, Finn, and Rey had their own story lines that rarely intersected. I think that allowed each character to grow into their own path.

5. Loved Rose. She's great. Yes.

6. Not a fan of DJ the Slicer and not even really sure what point his character played, except to show the very idealistic Finn that there can be corruption on both the part of the First Order and the Resistance. They are both buying weapons, so which is the morally superior one? This, I think, is going to parallel the idea with Sith/Jedi vs Grey Jedi, which is where I think Kylo and Rey are headed.

Ok, going to post this now before the boards decide otherwise.

 

divapilot: Where are you getting the thirty years ago bit? Just because the sequels take place 30 years after ROTJ doesn't mean he's been hiding out for thirty years. In the flashbacks showing Ben Solo burning the temple down and trying to murder Luke, both appear to be of similar age to the current day. If I had to guess, I don't think it's been more than a year or two since Ben turned and Luke went into hiding.

 

Bah, double post. I blame the new movie.

 

FINALLY.

BTW, remember to save your comments when commenting on stories - since my curse has hit you, finally.

 

You're right. My bad. But I don't think it just happened last week - Judging by the difference in Luke's appearance in the flashback and Ole Man Luke on the island, I'm guessing 10-15 years maybe? Still, put on your big Jedi pants and move on.

I read the essay above and I think it really hits a lot of good points. Plus even though I don't believe a word of what Kylo says, I am fine with Rey being Rey Random. Why not her? Why not the little boy at the end? I like the idea that even though the Jedi might end, the Force never will. Life is too persistent to be extinguished. The Force will continue to show up whether you Order 66 the Jedi or let them die out.

 

Can we talk about how these creatures' mammary glands creeped us out?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thala-siren

 

divapilot We know that Ben Solo hasn't turned yet as of "Bloodline" and that novel takes place 6 years before TFA/TLJ. So jcgoble3 is right that we're talking about something fairly recent.

 

Double post, kriff the server, yada, yada.

 

My thinking is DJ is introduced because he will show up in the next movie. Otherwise those are some really long wasted scenes just to prove to Finn that there is corruption on both sides of the war. But I may be wrong. I also don't believe that Rey's background simply is she is an abandoned child with really bad parents. She was trained by somebody. Before she even got a clue that she has Force potential she was wielding that staff like a champion martial artist. Maybe being strong in the Force allows for that type of competency, but maybe not. There are other things that don't make sense if she is just some poor kid sold into slavery. Why does Luke's lightsaber call out to her? Is it because she is a powerful Force user? Maybe. Why do you hear Obi-Wan call out her name in those lightsaber flashbacks? Does the Force sense her name and uses it in these Force illusions? Why is it that she is sold into slavery on the same planet that Lor San Tekka has his Church of the Force based on? Why does Lor San Tekka have the information as to where to find Luke? Doesn't that seem a little more than coincidence?

I admit that I haven't read the new canon novels, so maybe all of that is explained somehow.

But it is my personal theory that Rey was placed on Jakku to hide her. She was too young to remember her parents over the years. She was told a lie to protect her from people like Kylo that can tear information out of your brain. She was trained by somebody how to fight conventionally with a staff. Maybe she isn't the daughter of a Jedi, but somebody knew of her potential power and bothered to hide her from the New Order.

Perhaps I am wrong and there are just a ton of plot holes in the movie. It isn't like it hasn't happened before in the Star Wars universe. Hell, Rogue One is a movie that tries to explain the biggest SW plot hole of all--like why the Death Star has such an egregious security weakness.

Overall, I thought the movie was okay and I was relieved that nothing in the movie contradicted what I am writing in my current fic with any hard facts. I don't believe a word Kylo says, so I feel good about continuing my story and saying it still could be considered canon compliant.

 

In answer to this: he put himself into a meditation trance (or something like it) to survive vacuum of space during one of the books of the Thrawn Dulogy. (I forget which it is, might be the first, as they spend the second alone with Artoo and the Force-Sensitive creatures in that cave system. So... yes he spent time in vacuum "cold shirting" it, but he was also unconscious and Mara had to catch him and wake him up with "welcome aboard."

 

Accidental double post...

 

It occurs to me that the entire new Trilogy is basically Star Wars with OCs, and maybe that is a reason for some of the backlash? As FF writers, we know that OCs are a hard sell; many of the fanbase want the "old familiar". So maybe that is a way to think about it?

 

I totally agree (I mean technically Legends was as well, but since that was - to certain degrees - GL approved and it was around for so long and had so much built off of it, I didn't think there is much of a comparison). I also think that, as FF writers, we can pick apart the story better rather than going with the simple "I loved it" vs "I hated it" that seems to be going on in the wider fandom. We can see it as just one story in a galaxy of possible stories.

Some quick notes before the servers go down... again:

I still loved Luke and his arc and how human he his. I think, as people pointed out with Bloodline, Ben's betrayal was fairly recent - even in the book he hadn't turned yet so I think it is supposed to be in the realm of 5 years since his fall.

Rey: I SOOOO badly wanted her to be Luke's daughter too, just because I wanted Luke to have a kid, but the way they did the "you are no one" really just stuck with me and I hope it isn't undone with 9.

 

Saw it a second time today and had a few thoughts:

Re Rey: Snoke says he connected Rey and Kylo through the Force so Kylo could tempt her to come to them since he knew Kylo was still weak (in his eyes). Before Snoke says this Kylo indicated he didn't know how it was happening and said that he knew Rey wasn't doing it because it would kill her. But at the end, when Rey is getting the last of the Resistance aboard the Falcon, it happens again and Snoke is already dead.
Up to this point, we've only seen this as possible between familial relations: Luke and Vader, and Luke and Leia.

Could it be that Snoke and Kylo lied about how it was happening? Sure. Could something else be doing it? Of course. But it's just something to think about.

Re Luke: Something I sort of noticed the first time, but wasn't quite sure. When he projects himself, he makes himself look like he did the last time Ben saw him, his hair was short and his beard neat. I don't know if this is how he just sees himself, if he wanted Kylo to see him in the same way, or he just didn't want Leia and the Resistance to see crazy old Luke, but it was a nice touch.

 

On the other hand, when the last instance of Rey/Kylo telepathy happens on Crait, Rey and Kylo are a few hundred metres away from each other on the same planet, so it shouldn't be as difficult as communicating from opposite ends of the galaxy. (I also think that the "it would kill you" line was there to justify/foreshadow Luke's death.)

When I saw it the second time I realised that there were so many indications that this was a projection and not Luke himself. There's the fact that he looks younger and better groomed of course, and the fact that the laser bombardment doesn't affect him , but other tiny details as well: his feet don't affect the salt crust of Crait, he's using the blue lightsaber that was destroyed just moments ago, etc. I also wonder if C-3PO knows that he's a projection and not a flesh-and-blood person because of the wink Luke gives him.

And there's that awesome last line to Kylo: "See you 'round, kid". I cheered even louder the second time around.

 

I too thought this, but I didn't believe myself. Now that there's two of us...

That's a super-interesting way to look at it!

And perhaps that was a problem with the Prequels, too - people decided that it was going to suck and then they never accepted half of the new characters (I'm sometimes uncomfortable with how much hate Padmé gets, despite her heroics in Episodes I and II), the fact that Boba Fett was once a child, much like Anakin himself...etc.

My friend's ex just sent me a random private message on Twitter to say that "new Star Wars is bullBEEP". Not sure why he felt the need to do that after I've made so many posts about liking TLJ, but yeah. Some people...smh.

 

Exactly! But I think a lot of people got hung up on "this is about Luke/Han/Leia," and connected to those characters so strongly that they don't have room for anything else. I don't know; it's a big galaxy and there are a lot of stories, as we all know so well! Very excited now, to see where Rian goes from here.

Or Snoke created the link and it wasn't something that broke with his death. So, this could be permanent.

And yes, it took me a while, watching Luke's confrontation with Kylo, to pick up on the projection. It was obvious that he looked younger, hair lighter, and I was pondering whether he'd levitated the X-wing, used a bottle of Miss Clairol and taken off to save the day. After the bombardment, I think the penny dropped. And oh, yes, he is totally going to be haunting Kylo! (And maybe able to help Rey a bit, too) While I really don't think Kylo's redeemable (he did kill his father, after all); I note that he had the chance to kill his mother and let it go. His finger on the trigger to the torpedoes that would take out the bridge and removed it at the last second. It was a different TIE that destroyed the bridge. Hmm... Jury is out on him.

Exactly! I can't mourn Luke's death, because I think we're getting him again. Oh, read somewhere that for Yoda, they went with the original puppet as opposed to the full CGI of the prequels. I dunno... he seemed to have too much hair to me? Just seemed a bit off.

Guess there's a reason he's an EX!