Senate The legacy of Fidel Castro (1926-2016), and the future of Cuba

We can excuse having the picture of people who owned humans as property on our currency by invoking the times they lived in, but recognising, among the abuses, the contributions of a man in lifting his countrymen out of poverty and improving their quality of life during the course of his lifetime, that's the straw that breaks the mule's back? I think one has to have ideological tunnel vision, or a very simplistic black and white view of the world, or both, to not recognise that although his record is tarnished, the net sum of his legacy is indisputably one of service to his country and people.

 

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I just looooove twitter.

 

To be fair that's about the level of discourse we're seeing here Shane.

Violent Violet Menace - I think you have to account for the competing need to appear to not be ignorant with the need to appear to be Caring and Compassionate and Progressive in one's identity politics.

If you know two fifths of bugger all about Cuba, then sure, you'll take the position of "evil dictator, human rights, lol @ people who must support him because Anti-America is fashionable".

Regretfully, those of us interested in nuance - all five of us - are the minority here.

 

To be fair, even though as I stated he wasn't as bad as some on the right would have you believe, some of the praising of him from those on the left destroys the moral high ground they had in regards to criticising the right praising Putin.

 

Question -- Can the families who emigrated to the USA after their property was seized by Castro's revolutionaries expect to see any compensation?

 

The descendants of African-American slaves receiving reparations from the U.S. Congress have a better chance (and they have none), and would be infinitely more deserving.

 

Would they not be entitled to compensation from America for supporting Batista and allowing the fruit/sugar companies to keep the nation in a state of destitute poverty, ill-health and illiteracy whilst they flourished?

 

From my point of subjectivity, the blinkered praise from the left isn't quite as annoying as the blinkered condemnation from the right. Predictably, the most annoying voice in all of this is Ender's.

 

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If he had ousted a functioning and prosperous liberal democracy before coming to power, I'd be pretty mad about it too, but what did the region look like when he came to power? And what was he a reaction to? Nobody is claiming that he was a saint, or an ideal. I very much doubt I would have liked him even as a person had I known him. But context matters, and the discussion is all in relative terms.

 

Geez, I thought Ender gave a pretty balanced view of Castro from my Uber-American viewpoint. It was nearly sympathetic….gasp. Not sure he was exactly full of righteous indignation in his assessment but I will let him speak to that himself.

And the left and right are both annoying but yes, the rights over-bearing hellfire and damnation is ridiculous. I believe it was Senator Cotton who tweeted Castro was essentially burning in hell right about now. This is what passes for discourse in modern AmeriTrumpTM.

 

Or the Native Americans getting a fair price for all their stolen land.

I give Castro props for thumbing his nose at Pax Americana and living long against the CIA backed assassinations and coup. He outlasted all.

 

Out of curiosity: Has anyone else read William Blum's Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II? I checked the tome out from my library a decade ago, and it made for as sobering an experience as I've had. Consequently, it's next to impossible not to sympathize with the Leftists of Central/South America, no matter how multifarious the moral dynamics. We've made life a living hell for our southern neighbors--quashing even the milder aims for social justice time and again--and I understand, as best I can, why my country is so feared and hated.

No matter what Castro's misdeeds, we Americans ought to instead examine our own.

 

My thoughts have been with my Cuban friends these last few days.
I hope that cold-war-era propaganda and hatred do not too long outlive him. I fear that Trump means my own government will once again wage a war of terror, starvation and impoverishment against our dear neighbors.
I hope that the Cuban people can build upon where Fidel* succeeded, and find new ways where he failed, moving towards Democratic Socialism rather than Authoritarian Neoliberalism.
I hope that the continued colonial pillaging of Haiti and so many other places comes to an end, peacefully and before we do further irreparable damage to our planet and ourselves.
Most of all I hope that we can all somehow see reason, and end the needless toil, starvation, disease and death of so many in a world where the wealthy lack only for new luxuries and status symbols.
He was a genuine, flawed human being who wound up with more power than any of us flawed human beings should probably have; but the depth of his caring for humanity, and humility when faced with his mistakes is an example that shouldn't be forgotten.
Hasta siempre, Commandante.

* (Please note that I dislike the implied 'Great Man theory' of this phrasing, but I'm too lazy to reword it and this will suffice for avoiding a far more laborious statement.)

 

Let's remember some great times in Cuban-American relationships and imagine Donald Trump in JFK's position: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

 

I don't exactly disagree with this sentiment, but just to make sure you aren't holding another double standard against the Americans, would you also suggest that the British pay reparations for their management of the Israel-Palestine situation, the parties of the Berlin Conference for cleaving through the ethnic divides of Africa, the Germans for sending Lenin into Russia or even perhaps the French for imposing a vengeful peace upon the Germans?

 

Is there no bottom to the level American ideologues are willing to stoop to? I'm beginning to suspect that Kennedy was killed for simply having a normal human reaction of shock and bemusement to the insanity that was presented to him as serious proposals.

 

>that originated within the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS

I'm largely convinced that there are certain jobs that anyone who even applies to should be immediately detained by psychiatric hospitals and examined, because I'm fairly certain with that pool of test subject we'll finally figure out where humans go wrong.

 

Stanford Prison Experiment

We pretty much did that and it's one of the most unethical studies in modern history that didn't involved actually giving African-Americans syphilis...

 

I mean that's not at all anything close to the scenario that I wasn't actually proposing but was using as an insult to people who get those type of jobs, but I guess you really needed to find some way to disagree.

You're reaching not-fun-at-parties levels that shouldn't even be possible.

 

Vivec, you, yourself reached those levels a few pages ago, man.

 

If you don't think the SPE figured out where "people go wrong" I don't know what to tell you...

 

"I love it when harps interjects into discussions she hasn't been following trying a 'witty' comeback" -nobody whose ever posted in the jcc