Arena The NBA Thread

Not rooting for whoever happens to be good. Rooting for whoever makes me feel inspired when I watch them play. The Celtics are also good, but idc for their basketball that much. Or the Nuggets.

I hope you're right about the Warriors and that they find their chemistry in the postseason when it matters the most, but the metrics for their defense and their away performance are the opposite of optimistic. It will be a small miracle if they repeat. They definitely have the heart of champions, so it wouldn't be the craziest thing in the world. But I think the probability is very low.

 

wtf are you talking about

 

A lot can happen in a month. It seems like everyone is crumbling due to injuries. KD is down. LeBron is down. Ja needs to find Jesus, and Steven Adams is going to be out longer than expected. Luka is banged up. Robert Williams is out again, and a healthy Williams could be what Boston needs to get over the top. They need these guys not only to be available for the playoffs, but to have chemistry and be effective. We saw Brooklyn implode without chemistry last year.

GS could see Memphis in the first round. That series could rest on whether or not Ja has his mind right. They could see Phoenix in the first round, which might rest on whether or not KD can play. If GS ends up in the play-in, they could see Dallas, the Lakers, and/or New Orleans with/without Zion. Whether GS survives past any of those teams could come down to the health of their opponents' stars.

 

Embiid is balling. Like… on another level.

The dude’s kicking ass

 

In fairness, that doesn’t narrow it down at all.

 

A good back & forth game in the 1st half, but then a 19-2 run by the Raptors (OG & Scotty Barnes weren't ****ing around) in the 3rd that made it nervous time, but alas the game ended in niiiiice fashion! Can't say enough how lovely it's been to have Russell back, but also tonight the bench, man: Reaves/Hachimura/Reaves with 15+ points (outscored Toronto's bench 61-12 ). AD only scored 8.




8-3 since the trade deadline!

 

Tunes, the best thing about this new team is that this was a loss anytime over the past 2 years. The team would just fold in the face of adversity. These guys don’t care. DLo, Dennis, Hachimura, Reaves… they honestly believe that if they keep playing they can win. It got us a win against Dallas 27 pts down and it got us a win tonight.

I love it.

 

Nice game for the Bucks, unfortunately we get the L on the road vs Golden State Warriors. This team can play without Giannis and can be very competitive.

 

This game was a very very good game. I would not complain at all if those two teams went to the Finals this year. We'd sure get legendary games there.

 

@Point Given That ended up being a pretty good game... until the end, of course.



Won't happen, but a Knicks/Lakers game out here on every Oscar Sunday would make for a good tradition as I see it.

 

It's always a good morning when I wake up to an email from the NBA store telling me Knicks Win, buy more gear. I find them so funny, I don't bother to unsubscribe, even though I am obviously too broke to buy new gear every time the Knicks win, or even more than once a year.

Also, for now the Thunder have 10th place, but OMG we will not know places 4-10 in the West until April 9th. What a mess, and how fun.

 

I was skimming youtube and came across an ESPN video with JJ Redick arguing about the greatest three point shooters. Some old guy said that Larry Bird is a top 5 three point shooter of all time. Redick disagreed based on pure stats; makes and percentage. I agree. Then Redick said Steph has had to deal with more physicality than Bird, which is ****ing insane. Bird played regularly against the Bad Boys. I don't need to say any more.

Redick dismissed Bird as not a three point shooter. Fine. But I had a thought, decided to look it up, and was confirmed.

Career league adjusted stats

Three point rate; ie, rate of three point attempts, with 100 as average

Bird: 227
Steph: 167

Steph's single season best is 195. Bird's single season best is 321.

Three point percentage, league adjusted, with 100 as average

Bird: 127
Steph: 120

Steph's single season best is 130. Bird's is 151.


I'm not saying Bird is better than Steph. 3327 and counting vs 649. Not saying he's top five. Steph, Ray Allen, Reggie, Lillard, Klay. Maybe others like Korver, Redick, Dirk, Dale Ellis, whoever. But, like Steph, Bird was way ahead of his time, and deserves a bit of respect. Redick has recently talked about advanced stats; I think he would be surprised to see those league adjusted numbers.

 

If I remember right, JJ was saying that Bird didn’t have to deal with the physicality on the perimeter, not in general. Basically, he was saying that Steph is shooting 3’s on the perimeter with people in his face while shooting a 3 in the 80s, you’d rarely have a guy in your face for the majority of your shots.

I don’t know if that’s fact, but I think that’s what JJ was arguing.

Also, I don’t know what league adjusted stats mean, in practical use. Steph is a better shooter than Bird… that’s kind of it, right?

 

Can someone tell me what in God's name is going on with Karl Anthony Towns? He had a friggin calf sprain in NOVEMBER! A calf sprain? And he's out all this time? Is he also suffering from Ben Simmons disease?

 

It's not a fact. Bird was an exception; defenders chased him around the perimeter like crazy. They were also grabbing and hand checking, the latter was outlawed in 94. The **** they were doing then has been banned. You think they were letting Bird put up open threes? No way. Bird was also one of the few players (sometimes) shooting from well behind the line.

League adjusted = a player's stats adjusted/compared to the league average at the time. The league average is always given a score of 100, 100 is always average, and the player's stat is given a score adjusted to 100. So if you're double the league average, your league adjusted stat is 200. So if the league average three point percentage is 35%, and you shoot 35%, you're average, your league adjusted three point percentage is 100. If the league average is 35%, and you shoot 52.5% (35*1.5), your league adjusted three point percentage is 150. If you somehow manage to shoot 70%, your league adjusted three point percentage is 200.

Higher is better. This means Bird's league adjusted stats are better than Steph's, particularly his three point rate. Three point rate = percentage of shot attempts that are threes. Bird put up even more field goal attempts than Steph, and his three point rate, compared to the league average during his time, was still much higher than Steph's. In that way, he was much further ahead of his time than Steph. He was shooting even more threes compared to everyone else in the league than Steph has. Granted, the league average three point rate at the time was very low, but stats are stats.

 

The NBA game has changed dramatically. It used to be dominated by the big man and drives to the hoop. Three point shooters were typically guys that weren't good off the dribble and waited for kick outs. Back then Bird was usually in the top 10 of 3pt attempts. His first few years in the league was when the 3 pt shot was new to the NBA. His shooting % improved over the years as he incorporated 3s into his practice. At his peak he was hitting 40% on 3s while averaging 3 attempts a game.

Reddick is crazy to think defense today is anything like back then. Not only were the Bad Boys physical but you also had the Knicks, Sixers, Bucks, Celtics and the Lakers. The Bulls started winning championships when they could take punishment and dish it out. Teams also had enforcers back then such as Charles Oakley, Xavier McDaniel, Anthony Mason, Rick Mahorn, etc... Defense was crazy tough back then and then once the playoffs came around all bets were off. Bird would kill in today's game.

 

I don't want to take a side in this debate at the moment, but I will say that it's beyond question (to me) that a substantial number of NBA players in the 1980s and 90s would be G-league at best today. There were stiffs in the game then that wouldn't land a spot at the end of the worst team's bench now.

 

Trying to make it about perimeter physicality is a fallacy even if it is true. It doesn't matter if defenses are more physical on the perimeter in today's game. It's a lot harder to make threes when you've been flattened several times and are playing with a concussion, a busted shoulder, a badly bruised back, etc.

 

Larry Bird was one of the best 3-point shooters in the 1980s. But that doesn't say much. I think it's fair to say that there are dozens of players that are better at 3-point shooting than Larry Bird. He had a career percentage of 37.6% in 3-point shooting, with 1.9 attempts per game. Even if we dismiss his first 6 seasons in the league, when players did not take a lot of these shots, he still only had fewer than 3 three point shot attempts per game. There are literally 175 players in the history of the sport that have a better career percentage than Larry Bird. I think that alone disqualifies him from even being in the conversation.

In other news, Jordan Poole is a cool dude and has great technique and moves and handles and passion.... but I don't think I have ever seen a player be so reckless and actually have a significant role in a great championship contender team. With possibly Westbrook as the only other example. So many stupid decisions tonight, and if the Warriors manage to lose to the Suns when they were up by 25 points, JP should get most of the blame.

PS. And of course as soon as I post this, JP scores a 3 point shot and then a basket and a foul.

 

Ah thank you.

Still, though, I get you’re more disproving JJ’s rhetoric, but it sort of feels like we’re starting to compare Bird and Curry as far as 3 point shooting and I don’t think there’s a comparison to make. You already said that you don’t think Bird is a better shooter or even in the top 5.

I guess… the way I see it Bird may have shot 3’s and may have shot more compared to the league average, but steph revolutionized shooting the 3 and he’s responsible for the rise in the league average of 3’s shot per game, so… it sort of make sense that Bird stood out so much; he may have been shooting more, but the league didn’t change to adapt.

This may be a bad comparison to make but wouldn’t it sort of be like comparing Wilt dunking attempts in the 60s compared to Vince Carter’s dunking attempts? I feel like Wilt compared to the league average at the time would probably be an astronomical difference. That’s sort of how I’m seeing the bird comparison here. It’s useful for historical context, but comparing it to today’s game is a mistake. JJ made a mistake doing it.

 

Loving Giannis' stat line and woohoo! Khris's minutes and points total! Brook is amazing! He's been available and very awesome both ways, with defense and offense.

 

Happy 35th birthday to the most impressive player I have seen in the 30 years I have been watching basketball.

 

Happy birthday to Wardell, but I’m not watching a 13 minute video of layups and threes.

 

At least 3 of them are assists

 

Sorry, but the only birthday that matters today is Taylor Hanson, the big 4-0.
I can even relate it to the NBA