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Fanclub <=*=> The New Sith Order =*= Return of the Sith <=*=>... v.5

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by Teegirloo, Sep 3, 2012.

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  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Impressive EL. A well thought out discourse. My condolences, of course.

    And here upon is where a question and an answer is tested. Your answer is correct, yes, but forgives a strain of logic that flows elsewhere by forgetting about the Dark Empire, the dark side magocracy that Lord Sidious proposed to impose upon the Empire. In light of the restriction that there be only two true Sith Lords, how does the logic that he focused on the Empire and not the dark side follow?

    And as to you apprenticeship, I approve, though you shall not find any weak leadership here! *smiles cunningly*

    Lord Dreadwar, I would argue quite vehemently that you do yourself a disservice by associating the title of Darth with the Infinite Sith and by extension the Shadow Council. If attention is focused purely upon the title of Darth, then you run the risk of narrowing down our true representatives in history.

    By our, yes, I refer to how Marka Ragnos tutored out own Darth Vassago, the Dark Lord of the Sith before the New Sith Civil War in 13 ABY... Before we lost Korriban during the Battle of Korriban, although the Jedi fools ascribed the sudden increase in the numbers of Disciples of Ragnos to nothing more than a secret reserve and not our forces stepping from the shadows of our rule of the Empire Reborn.

    *waves his hand, at this lengthy aside*

    The point remains. Associating the word Darth with the Infinite Sith does our kin a disservice, as every megalomaniac becomes associated with us, and it places unnecessary pressure upon the individual Sith Orders.

    It is quite likely that upon the death of a Sith Lord that they are then inducted into the Shadow Council if they have surpassed death. While we suffer due to the disconnect caused by the repeated defeats of the Shadow Council, caused due to the need of the Shadow Council to take the reins of the greater war due to complete mismanagement of it caused by Lord Sidious' death - thus Exar Kun and Marka Ragnos personally stepping in - I believe we suffer awfully if we attempt to impose an Infinite Sith design upon too much.

    I am content to imagine that the Infinite Sith had a hand upon the Second and Third Great Schisms at a minimum. I am content to consider that the Grand Design was thus; to intervene only when the Sith Order(s) failed in their objective; to weaken the galaxy sufficiently that their wholesale invasion could commence, or their proxy regime(s) could be retooled to accept their unholy masters. Such a scheme was the ultimate planned goal to resurrect the Infinite Sith Empire, torn asunder firstly by the Celestials with the defeat of their allies the Columni and Sharu. The manipulation of the Rakata gave them an avenue with which to undo the Celestials (eventually), in the midst of the release of Abeloth, by 30,000 BBY, though Civil War and efforts by the Rakata to turn against their true masters did for a time cause grief and the Infinite Sith undid the elevation of the species and wove the Rhandites, Xer, and Alsakan into their new kin, with the former being the physical remnant of their grand design (so named after Darth Rhand, who wove together their remnants before he passed through), the Celestials having penned them in the Rift, a system of creating gravitational anomalies to contain threats being applied to Abeloth in the Maw and the Killiks by the creation of the Unknown Regions - standard Celestial 1-0-1 so to speak. But beyond setting up Orders to weaken the galaxy at large and the Jedi Republic which arose in the void between the Infinite (Sith) Empire and the Tionese War, the Infinite Sith were mostly rendered incorporeal and met with specific agents and often lost control of their creations by the very nature of what it meant to be Sith - thus Exar Kun killing Freedon Nadd, for example, or the Sith turning on Ruin. This, too, ran to the Grand Design as these greater Orders were just designed to create regimes from which the Infinite Sith could eventually descend upon (a la the kernel of a Dark Empire within the Galactic Empire), or unleash the Rhandites for direct rule.

    While the Infinite Sith have been required to intervene personally on occasion - thus Exar Kun and Marka Ragnos engaging the nascent Jedi Order in the hope that at it's weakest they could prevail, or in undoing Vitiate, who had thoughts far above his station - their intervention has been minimal to mask their existence, and though they have elevated Sith, they have been defeated in various instances; when Lord Revan sealed their physical entourage away, for example, and the aforementioned deaths of the shades of Marka Ragnos and Exar Kun. The overall plan was to descend on victory, and beyond the initial push, their intervention was not so immense and to a certain degree these Orders self perpetuated, though not always, and arguably the Son made his own interventions at times. Dislike of Vitiate arose from him undoing two millennia of work in the creation of a Sith Empire that could fight the Republic, for example.

    A word of caution, however - not all Sith spirits ascended by virtue of surviving death. Ajunta Pall did not, and nor did Malus, the ridiculous apprentice of Darth Rivan. There are other examples but the point stands; unless we have evidence of direct involvement, or a lack of involvement from known sources, beyond the obvious fact that pre-Adas Sith influences existed on worlds such as Alpherides and Onderon, I would not become over-fascinated with your theory, in spite of your personal experience with the Infinite.


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  2. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I prefer the idea of a rivalry between Immortal Gods of the Sith/Typhojem/Abeloth/True Sith/Infinite Sith and Son/Great Schism Sith. It makes for an intriguing tale.
     
  3. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Proposed, but failed to fully implement. He focused more on winning the wars against mundane enemies and regulated the remaining Jedi to Vader and lesser minions who were poorly trained on purpose so they could never take his place. This includes Vader himself. Sidious, as shown with his clones, never planned to be replaced by any of his apprentices, which, by Banes own words, was not what the Rule of Two was meant for. It was meant to keep the Sith strong, so an Apprentice needed to replace his or her Master when both were in the Prime of their power.
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    A Shadow War, perhaps?

    Abeloth is so much more than Sith as a Celestial, I would argue.


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  5. Darth-Vassago

    Darth-Vassago Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2004
    *Time passed, but the summon of darkness finally reached the furthest corner of the Galaxy to bring forth the Dark Lord*

    Ahhhhh...a game is being proposed? I do enjoy games. I'll wait patiently to see what develops...
     
  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    The motions of an opening post are being drawn up.

    We're drawing on references that make the Adas Empire look young...


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  7. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    I disagree. The Darth is inextricably linked with the Infinite Sith, it being related to and likely derivative of the Rakatan darr tah and/or Daritha. Furthermore, it works so well in meaning "immortal god/-emperor/-king," as the immortal gods of the Sith would thus be the Darths of the Rakata, and Andeddu, reigning from mortuary Korriban as a mummy-lich far too similar to the Dark Lords sleeping in the Great Temple (and thus surely being among their number), would also make sense.

    That is not to say all Sith who bear the title Darth have any link to the Infinite Sith. The usage of the term Darth should not be static, and instead originate from those who became supreme immortal god-kings, but after Vitiate lets the title trickle down to the Empire in general, it loses the connotation of cheating death. Darth Ruin, who should be entirely separate to the Infinite Sith as the Big Bad father of the Sith we know, reinvents the title as solely the warning to bow down or be destroyed - the Darth title of the megalomaniacs who should have no association with us.

    But yes, if there's one very easy distinction to make between the True Sith and those that embrace the Rule of the Strong, introduced by the Heresiarchs, it's the title of Darth.

    But I should hardly think the Infinite Sith lineage should be so potent as to be a direct force behind the NSO's creation. What's wrong with the amalgamation of multiple ideologies, all diluted and obfuscated over the millennia? I should hardly ascribe so much to the Infinite Sith - that does the NSO a disservice, as it makes it a mere vassal.

    Besides, Infinite Sith influence is retained in the NSO's development, but not through Ragnos tutoring Vassago, but through Darth Dispicable, who is the Infinite Sith's Battlelord and Harbinger, Darth Cruor.

    I think that ties too much with the Infinite Sith, and thus negatively impacts the legitimacy of other Orders and their philosophies.

    I would prefer the Shadow Council to solely be those who alchemically preserved their bodies in the Great Temple, such as the Dark Lord who is the hand behind Nadd (who is obviously who crowned Kun, but my hands are tied on that one), and the Darth Andeddu. They may draw upon and summon the spirits of entombed Sith Lords (whose cheating death is rather different from what is implied by TOTJ and EE), but that's it - there should only be minimal cohesion, here, with Ragnos, Hord, Sadow and Kun coming to entirely oppose the Shadow Council, Kun deviating from Nadd's plan and destroying him, Nadd using Kun's turning solely for his own ends of creating a body, etc. In other words, classic lack of Sith cooperation.

    I am content to imagine that the Infinite Sith had a hand upon the Second and Third Great Schisms at a minimum. I am content to consider that the Grand Design was thus ...... The overall plan was to descend on victory, and beyond the initial push, their intervention was not so immense and to a certain degree these Orders self perpetuated, though not always, and arguably the Son made his own interventions at times.[/quote]

    I approve. ;) That is very literally identical to my conception (a notion that I recently discovered, thanks to darklordoftech linking me to a thread I had forgotten, has remained entirely unchanged since at least 2010) as well.

    Only quibble is on Vitiate's allegiance. I think it is a much more neatly woven history if Vitiate and his Empire are Infinite Sith, with Ragnos and other shades opposing them due to their goals of destroying the galaxy.

    Oh, not so. I firmly believe accrediting to much to insane idiot gods who want to destroy the galaxy does the Sith a great disservice, and would view Darth Ruin as equal in historical stature as the great Big Bad/Sith daddy. ;)
     
  8. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Greetings, Lord Vassago. And indeed, an evil more ancient than any other is rising, and bringing with it the promise of armageddon. When the cosmos itself wails in torment, screeching through the Force for anything or anyone to save it, be it hero or villain, all Sith must unify... [face_skull]

    Perhaps this is evidence of my own biases against characters I feel were rather poorly developed, but I prefer to prioritise the promise of what those concepts could have been, by realising that promise in other characters. I'm talking about Abeloth and Vitiate being Infinite Sith compatriots or pawns, here.

    If Abeloth became an immortal god of the Sith (taking their name as many others did in those forgotten days), and the immortal gods of the Sith are 'ascended' beings of similar calibre (and thus being, in one definition, Celestial), would Abeloth really have been so much more than (Infinite) Sith?
     
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    In her words, she is more than Sith, though.

    And I believe our disagreement stems from the Shadow Council. I consider it to be the collection of spirits that exists on Korriban or elsewhere.

    Hord, Kun, Sadow and Ragnos being the incarnation in 3600 BBY, alongside the Dark Underlord, and Nadd at various points, as the Sith who ascended to the Infinite Sith by their success and knowledge.

    The Shadow Council originally including Sith from 100,000 BBY, though by time and war some die, some are sealed away by Revan in 3,950 BBY?

    Being as the Taung Mandalore was replaced by a Sith agent and then possessed by Vitiate's agent, could we consider the former an Infinite Sith tool and the latter Vitiates?

    As to Ragnos and his involvement with the NSO, arguably his involvement does not go beyond the initial Dark Lord(s) and we go beyond them. No different than the Son influencing Xendor and Phanius and then leaving then thereafter?


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  10. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Sorry to interject, but I have another question/debate topic, this one specific to the New Sith Empire and start of the New Sith Wars. How exactly was the new empire formed? From what I pieced to together, Darth Ruin, a former jedi master turned dark lord, returns to the jedi order with his true self hidden (much like Exar Kun), gathers about 50 jedi followers in another schism, reunites the "sith tribes" and somehow molds them all into a new sith empire that catches the republic by surprise and sparks a millenia-long war. How? Whatever remained of the sith were supposedly too divided and weak to pose any kind of threat to the republic and the jedi, and somehow Darth Ruin is able to unify them and, along with 50 or so jedi, launch an invasion with virtually no prior preparing with this ragtag force and hold out long enough to set up academies, factories, training camps, and everything else needed to forge an empire. How did Darth Ruin do it? The size, power, and nature of these "sith tribes" isn't elaborated on as far as I know, but it's implied they descend from what was left of the Dromund Kaas Sith Empire which met a yet-to-be-revealed fall.
     
  11. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Darth Desolous led a war in 3500 BBY from Utapau to Yaga Minor, and Darth Phobos engaged both Jedi and Korriban-based Sith, so there were tribes with power to war, let alone Mecrosa in the Tapani.

    And the Republic was weaker than you remember. The northern dependencies included a Paecian Empire until 2992 BBY, Hapes secedes in 3100 BBY, and the Republic (and Alsakan) lost a Civil War to Corellia in 3000 BBY.

    So a Dark Lord, with a powerbase of 50 Sith immediately, could easily form a powerful nucleus for a new Sith Empire running from Ziost to Yavin. Throw in the return of the Dark Underlord, who harasses the Republic for two hundred and fifty years, the Hutts joining the Sith, and the fact that the Republic had to adopt a slow and steady approach to avoid the Sith unifying, and the problem starts and is not really solved and when the Sith *do* unify, they can strike a body blow, which they do.


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  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    The TPM novelization doesn't say that Ruin had an empire. When the TPM novelization was released, I thought that it was a war within the Jedi Order with no empires involved.
     
  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    The Atlas confirmed he set up an Empire.


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  14. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    This would make for a much better MMORPG than the Great Galactic War.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I'm content with the Great Galactic Wars as it more or less knits together the Old and New Sith Wars so we're on a clear Sith War that lasts five glorious millennia and we never really lose because we've never actually been defeated for even a handful of years.

    Even when the Ancient Sith are destroyed, the Sith way is so far scattered that it is galactic. Even when a 'thousand years of peace' rein, Sith pick at the Jedi in the Esstran Sector, Freedon Nadd conquers Onderon, and the Third Great Schism kicks off three centuries of conflict. Even when the Old Sith go through their territorial gains and losses under Kun, Revan and Traya, the True Sith are conquering away in the Unknown Regions. Even when the True Sith ail, they are so diffuse that tribes of Sith percolate and periodically harass the Republic from new avenues such as Utapau. Even when the New Sith destroy each other, their chaos snaps the spine of galactic civilisation and a millennium of victory ensues. Even the 'defeat' at Ruusan sees the Jedi disarmed by simple politics and become the tools of the Sith, indirectly and then completely, with dozens of factions our proxies and thus eternally expendable, before the Empire rises and it is just one victory after another regardless of the dozens of major defeats inflicted upon the Empire, because the Sith are now so powerful that Cronal, Carnor Jax and Marka Ragnos can pick up a simple percentage of the Empire's strength and have more power than many Sith of old, even before Lumiya steps up and undoes half the galaxy with ease, all while the One Sith grow more powerful in the shadows and the Tribe seizes control of the galaxy with a mere two years of effort...

    Five millennia of warfare which the Sith never lost. Lords and Orders come and go, but we were eternal.

    None of this 'oh, for two millennia the Sith were no more, after the defeat of Darth Traya.' Much better.


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  16. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Meyerm I think Sinrebirth's explanation is spot on. I'd like to add another potential element into the mix, though: an interpretation I believe Zorrixor and I have always favoured, the idea that Darth Ruin was something of a literal dark side god due to his solipsism. After all, as per Yoda in TESB, belief is a large component to the Force - so what power from belief would be gained if one believed all of reality was his imagination to with as he wished?

    Able to turn his enemies into dust with a word, move a planet with a flick of his hand. This wouldn't be any more overpowered than Nihilus' hunger, for instance, as it'd take genuine insanity of this kind for any Sith to achieve such power, and said insanity would, like Nihilus' hunger, be Ruin's undoing as well - perhaps his fifty followers convince him to blink himself out of existence at the apex of some great philosophical debate in the bowels of the Sith Citadel on Ziost. ;)

    Such godlike power could easily account for the rapid expansion of the Sith Empire, and would explain why Ruin is so revered the movie Sith forget those preceding him entirely when rememberin their history, attributing their Order's origins solely to the unholy god who was the father of their lineage.

    darklordoftech Indeed a much better MMORPG, and TOR would really work much better if it was set in the NSW period.

    In the sense that the Dark Lords of the Sith are more than Sith. She is, after all, an immortal god of the Sith, beyond the mortal members of the pureblooded race.

    While that's certainly a suitably epic idea, my concern is that it links too much with the Infinite Sith, particularly given that the Dark Underlord is, presumably, of Darth Ruin's lineage, which I always like to keep somewhat separate. (Although in ABYVerse terms, given that the Dark Underlord is Cruor, I suppose one could say the Dark Underlord is acting at the behest of the Shadow Council and is attempting to subvert the Creed of Ruin).

    And part of my reasoning behind the Shadow Council being separate is my disgruntlement over the very shoddy retconning of the Dark Lord crowning Kun being Ragnos. The group of Dark Lords featured in Empire's End and TOTJ in the Great Temple are human Dark Jedi, are described as ruling for centuries, are described as preserving their bodies and sleeping in the Temple (hence why they ask Palpatine to join them - a bit odd to essentially ask a Sith Lord to die), and one of them, who's clearly meant to be the Sith Lord who crowns Kun and who Sadow rebelled against and who trained failed Sith apprentice Nadd, is the one orchestating Kun's seduction to the dark side. This same group serves as somewhat double-edged council to Palpatine (cowing him in his last visit before EE), as well as aids in his resurrection (whether that be his death in ROTJ or DE, it's not clear).

    That depiction, to me, is what's indicative of a Shadow Council - a group of immortal rulers sitting in neat rows of thrones in a Temple, near the Valley where their less successful, chronologically successive hybrid brethren like Ragnos haunt their tombs as mere ghosts who need summoning from beyond the grave. There's something very lich-like, more Andeddu than Ragnos, about them, and it incidentally ties in very well with the mortuary Darth sect/shadow ruler lineage speculation of Wherefore art thou Darth.

    Or perhaps when fighting on their spectral plane after his spirit is reunified in Shadow of Revan...

    Indeed. And in my conception of the Shadow Council, Ragnos has not been among their number (and indeed in active opposition to their goals) anyway since after he recorded the amulet message for them (specifically when the Ritual of Nathema clued him in to the Infinite Sith's galaxy-destroying intentions, resulting in him rallying certain spirits).

    And I love[​IMG] the thought that meeting the Ones and some experiences on Mortis were what gave Phanius the idea he was a god in the first place, being influenced by the Son in a purely reactionary sense. It's almost quite an amusing thought. "You believe you're Force gods? That's intiguing... Why do you think that? Hmmmm... I don't buy it. If it's anyone, I'm the god here, because this and that... Hmm.... I'm the god here...." :p
     
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  17. E. L.Knight

    E. L.Knight Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 4, 2012
    As I barely have any knowledge of who these Sith and Dark Lords are, I cannot give an opinion appropriate to the conversation.

    I would very much like to be given more tasks, though. I feel as if my presence is simply just me reading and learning about Sith I've never heard of.

    Interestingly enough, though, this Darth Ruin seems to have been a very smart chap. I admire his strategy.
     
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  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Here's what Darth_Dreadwar loves to refer to:

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Meyerm

    Meyerm Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2014
    The sith always surviving is not entirely their own working. It's the jedi and the Republic always letting their guard down, sitting comfortably in their cradle of power, believing their enemy defeated for good. They missed the growing the sith empire spreading outwards from Dromund Kaas, and they either didn't find or didn't recognize the threat of the sith splinter factions that Darth Ruin seemed to pretty easily unify and turn into a powerful force. And then, when they believe their enemy once again beat for good, they sneak right under their noses and usurp their very leadership, not realizing what's happening until their own soldiers are pointing blaster at them from orders of a sith lord.
     
  20. aalagartassle

    aalagartassle Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2011
    I like the idea of Andeddu, Adas or future lost tribe of the Sith encounters.. As sporadic as i am, I'd enjoy participating if it is weekly.
     
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  21. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    darklordoftech It has been five days since you were assigned your first task, my friend. I will ask that you create your own Code of the Sith and a Sith name (lacking the title Darth) by which we may call you within two days, or your failure shall be met with my leaving you here in the rebuilt Veeshas Tuwan.

    Oh, how is that a punishment, you ask? *leans forward, faint redness signalling where spectal eyes flare within the voluminous hood* Because there is such a thing as entirely too much of a good thing. We are miles underground even now, and should I depart, my knowledge of the way out will be taken with me, and you will be trapped wandering the subterranean halls, desperately pouring through ancient scrolls to learn how to survive without water or food or perhaps seeking a route through the labyrinth, until you turn to dust.

    *a low, dark chuckle*

    Your own Code of the Sith. Your own Sith name. Two days.

    aalagartassle I think in these times of inactivity, weekly participation is more than enough. And look out for Andeddu and Adas; they're going to be very relevant to the threat Sinre and I have been cooking up for the game.

    In the meantime, would you be willing to take on Meyerm as an apprentice? It is vital that our ranks swell with Sith Masters by the conclusion of the year.

    E. L.Knight Darth Ruin is certainly a very underrated Sith. I think Pena described him best, as a Sith in the Darth Traya mold of utterly insane goals, and one who then broke the mold and murdered the moldmaker. [face_laugh]

    And I suspect the New Sith Empire and the resultant thousand years of war can be attributed solely to two figures of almost unparalleled power in its seminal days; Ruin, and the Dark Underlord. The former, some sort of solipsist dark side god, but not one lacking in intelligence; I'd imagine he was very rational in achieving his irrational goals, and more versed in philosophy than any other Sith. In my mind, his epistemological process just got horribly skewed when he was exposed to solipsism, as even the tentative beginnings of belief that he might be the only thing in existence and the Universe was his plaything could have greatly increased his command over the Force -"Your focus determines your reality," after all - therefore resulting in a feedback loop where such power further convinced him in the validity of solipsism, culminating in Ruin eclipsing the likes of Darth Nihilus.

    The latter, the Dark Underlord, is very interesting as well. All we know is that he was a notorious Sith in the first quarter of the NSW, becoming Dark Lord at some point and harrying the Republic with his fearsome Black Knights. Some kind of Sith spirit summoned from Chaos, likely, and reminiscent of Nihilus. Perhaps he shared certain perverse extremities of Force power with Nihilus; having two Sith Lords of absolutely deific power in the first 250 years of war would easily account for how the New Sith Empire rapidly carved out its territory and sufficiently crippled the Jedi (when you consider the apocalyptic Force powers of Nihilus alone is largely responsible for the First Jedi Purge).

    Chris Avellone had originally intended Nihilus to be the Jedi Exile's 'other half,' perhaps even literally representing a sort of split in the soul at Malachor. Given that we now have precedence of spirits being split and becoming two separate agents in Revan, I like to speculate that Phanius left Mortis (his equivalent to Malachor) bifurcated into Darth Ruin, the embodiment of vainglory, order and desire for immortality (like Daiman from Knight Errant - probably loved wearing white too), and the Dark Underlord, the shadowy embodiment of destruction and entropy (the Odion to Ruin's Daiman).
     
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  22. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Most theories do posit that the Dark Underlord is Xendor reborn, and being as he may have himself been influenced by the Infinite, he is definitely a candidate for a man who gained power.

    I am slowly turning to the idea that the Shadow Council of Sith spirits turned against Vitiate when they realised his plans, possibly about the time Nihilus emerged, when they saw the true power of another Infinite Sith. But that being said, I can see them turning principally against Vitiate, not the wholesale idea of Sith behind the Sith, perpetuating the line, but against him in particular because, with no other corporeal Infinite Sith to hand he had decided to dispense with the Sith and compete a Rule of One like Darth Sidious. They managed the latter as, fundamentally, he was not yet divine, but the former could not be, not with his plans to in essence kill all life. Sidious at least intended to rule; Vitiate was a megalomaniac even by Infinite Sith standards. Sidious, meanwhile, was a megalomaniac by 'mundane' Sith standards alone.

    A pantheon is one thing; a singular deity really is another.


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  23. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 26, 2010
    Agreed re. Dark Underlord. As Xendor, he works very well as one of the Infinite Sith who was successfully restored from oblivion in Chaos. At least for the RPG, I believe Mikaboshi has a backstory for Cruor where he's the Dark Underlord, however...

    I would have thought Vitiate fairly tame by Infinite Sith standards, and his goals in close alignment. :p Although... in ABYVerse terms, I suppose he might have been attempting to supplant the Sith'ari Darth Nemesis, the greatest of the pantheon, in a bid to grab sole power as you say... I could live with that. Would make sense as to how the Shadow Council seems to oppose him but there's also a great deal of evidence for his True Sith Empire being Infinite Sith. [face_thinking] That works.
     
  24. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Code: We shall be free. We shall rise. We shall return. We shall avenge.

    Name: Turtleius Snapius
     
  25. Darth Dreadwar

    Darth Dreadwar Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Turtleius Snapius... [face_laugh]

    Well, we once operated on a strict point system, in which Mastery was achieved through attaining a defined number of points, which would be gained based on the completion of tasks (or 'extra credit' through such as recruiting new members). Now, elevation to Sith Master is expected to occur after a month, with task points being done away with. So I will leave feedback, and forego scoring.

    Your Code is short and to the point. Snappy, one could say, and too much so. But it certainly embodies the spirit of Syn's Sith Code well, and is considerate of the Sith Order's penchant for returning from the shadows to avenge their various defeats.

    Your next task is thus: Imagine our Order has fallen prey to one such ignoble defeat, and we are forced to vacate our world of Daritha. What planet would you recommend we set up our base on, and why? An answer is expected to be of considerable length, and take into account various factors such as wealth of ancient Sith knowledge to be found on the world, degree of spectral activity, location and ability to be discovered by our foes, native inhabitants (be it sapients or Sithspawn), and pre-existing infrastructure that could be repurposed (e.g. Sith academies, industrial complexes, and so on).

    You have a week from today, apprentice.
     
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