Games The Non-Force Users Draft 2: Attack of the Muggles

lmao I love that. Or do the Olympics high-jumper thing and agree to be co-champs, live on broadcast

 

Oh boy, we have a 2-2 tie break, has this ever happened before in a draft??

I’m ok with a coin flip, let’s do it!
I wanna see it go to teams.

 

Well, if you want to know how the coin flip went ... IntyCenter is here

 

Kriff. Teams we go then. Don’t like my chances there

 

The Finals Take Place on Plazir-15 under the watchful eyes of Jack Black and Lizzo:
(Only it's not actually Jack Black and Lizzo. It's clones of Shaquille O'Neal cosplaying as Jack Black and Lizzo in their Star Wars characters attire)
(And they are slightly annoyed because they've just been interrupted from attempting to watch a baseball game featuring Clones of Shaquille O'Neal cosplaying as historical baseball players in order to attend to these matches)
(and they are really, really, really upset about the Shaq who was cosplaying as Charles Roscoe Barnes getting hurt. again. But also discussing what an oddity the year of @heels1785 was)
(and they've just broken the Fourth Wall to discover a YouTube channel dedicated to talking about them)



@Jordan1Kenobi (5) vs. @SithOverlord101 (5)

And that means we are heading to TEAMS to decide it!

Qi'ra (Captain)
Sergeant Kreel, Durge, Rayvis, Bossk, Beilert Valance, Fennec Shand, Moff Gideon, Kho Phon Farrus, and The Spark Eternal

vs.

Din Djarin (Captain)
Jagged Fel, Theron Shan, Tor Vizsla, Dash Rendar, Shimrra Jamaane, Kir Kanos, Goran Beviin, PROXY, and THREE PORGS



May the Force be With You. Despite it literally not being with your characters.

@KenKenobi @Lady_Belligerent @heels1785

 

Now this is gonna be such a fun battle with so many possibilities. Two Gen’Dai teaming up is awesome. And Farrus with the Calling Gloves up against a team where half of them are wearing metal armour!

 

Cohesion

Cohesion wise there are several great connections here. To start, I have four bounty hunters. Durge, Bossk and Valance even worked on the same team together for a while so have great cohesion together.
To top that off, my captain Qi’ra is one of the richest and most influential people in the galaxy so would be able to bribe the heck out of these bounty hunters with whatever they want to complete the mission.
I also have Gideon and Kreel who are both high ranking Imperials, plus Valance used to be one too.

I have a team of hunters and assassins that don’t really have any allegiance. Valance and Fennec have a conscience, but at the end of the day are still bounty hunters. Qi’ra and Farrus, while “good guys”, have used very dirty tactics in the past to get what they want. So I don’t see any major fractures in my team, besides maybe the two Imperials causing a bit of trouble. But they are far outnumbered and Gideon wouldn’t comprise a victory to argue, especially when he’s fighting a team with several of his worst enemies - the Mandalorians.

Which brings me to my opponents team. Shimrra, while the best combatant in the draft, is completely out of place here. The Vong and Mandalorians went to war with each other, so there’s going to be a massive fracture to overcome, especially when he’s the best fighter they have. They need him. Will he also appreciate being led by a Mandalorian? I can imagine a lot of arguing and fighting in the prep time.
At the end of the day, neither of our teams have perfect cohesion. I just think there’s too many “good guys” and “bad guys” mixed together for their team to work as effectively as my team.


Strength / Durability

I'm confident my team is far ahead in terms of strength and durability. Aside from Shimrra and PROXY, it's a pretty basic line up on humans. The Mandalorians have beskar amour making them very durable, but I have some great counters to that which I'll cover later with Fennec's sniper and Farrus’ Calling Gloves.

I have Durge and Rayvis who are practically invincible, being able to survive unbelievable punishment and regrow / reattach their limbs. Valance's exoskeleton makes him superhuman and able to tank explosives. Bossk is a beast. Gideon's Darktrooper armour is impenetrable. Kreel is a hardened soldier who punches his way to victory. And the Spark Eternal can turn anyone superhuman and give them the ability to survive fatal wounds.
Qi'ra, Fennec and Farrus would be the weak links here in terms of strength but make up for that in skills.
When most of my team can get blasted with a rifle or hit with an explosive and walk it off, then you know you're in trouble.


Combat / Experience

I feel like this is the closest category between our teams. Both teams are full of great fighters with lots of experience.

Let’s go through them all one by one:
Durge - Invincible Gen’Dai bounty hunter and Jedi killer who’s gone toe to toe with Obi-Wan, Anakin, Kit Fisto, Grievous, etc. He was almost 2,000 years old, so you can imagine just how much combat experience he had over the centuries.
Rayvis - Another monster Gen’Dai who was also an assassin and Jedi Killer. Not as great as Durge, but definitely a huge threat. It took several Jedi Masters to capture him. Also had a great fight against Cal Kestis.
Bossk - One of the greatest bounty hunters in the galaxy over the Republic and Empire eras. Has gone toe to toe with Boba, Valance, Krrsantan, etc. Some of the toughest hunters who’ve ever lived.
Valance - Cyborg who’s as tough as they come. Has an exoskeleton increasing his strength, durability, speed and accuracy. Fought the likes of Boba and Vader, and beaten Bossk and Durge, etc.
Fennec - One of the best snipers in the galaxy. Has taken on Din Djarin, gone toe to toe with Cad Bane and beaten two of the toughest Clones in the Grand Army within seconds. Used an effective martial arts fighting style to get the upper hand in fights.
Qi’ra - Trained by Darth Maul, she became an incredibly skilled fighter and very adept with her electro batons. Went toe to toe with Vader for a few minutes, which is one of the most impressive feats in this draft.
Gideon - Overpowered the duo of Din Djarin and Bo-Katan. Has a set of Darktrooper armour which increased his strength and made him near invincible to both ranged and melee damage.
Kreel - Effectively trained in lightsaber combat, even being able to deflect blaster fire at close range. Something that is usually only what Force users can do. Duelled Luke Skywalker multiple times, fighting evenly at times and even overwhelming him at others.
Farrus - Skilled and deadly assassin with quick reflexes and good durability. Fought Aphra and Sana throughout the comics. Carried powerful artefacts with her capable of mimicking the Force.
Spark Eternal - While possessing someone the Spark can increase their strength, durability, speed, power and fighting skills. Can make its host tank and recover from serious injuries. While possessing Aphra it was even able to briefly fight Vader.
The Spark has access to nine great fighters on my team during this battle to use however it pleases.

I think where my team gets the upper hand here is they have a large range of great feats against well known top tier characters and have come out victorious a lot of the time. Whereas SithO’s team, while having great feats, lacks notable fights and victories against well known characters. That is what helps raise the stock of draft picks.

Look at the resume - Vader, Luke, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Kit Fisto, Cal Kestis, Grievous, Boba, Cad Bane, Din Djarin, Bo-Katan, Krrsantan, etc. etc. etc. My team’s fought them all and given some incredible performances.


Weapons / Powers

My team has a variety of great weapons to bring into this battle. I’ll go through the ones that will make the biggest impact:

Fennec Shand’s sniper, as mentioned in the previous argument, can be modified to pierce beskar alloy. So all these Mandalorians coming into this fight are vulnerable no matter what they’re wearing.
Fennec also has prep time to find the best location and vantage point in the palace where she can be the most effective. Because of the amount of people in the fight, she never actually has to step foot in the combat zone, she can just stand back and snipe from the a distance. We’ve seen just how accurate and skilled she is with her sniper, even taking on speeding targets from miles away. This will be a game changer.

Farrus is also bringing the Whip of Sorrows capable of draining weapons and using that power against the enemies. But more importantly Farrus has the Calling Gloves, which replicate the Force. They can control anything metal, such as blasters and armour, which the opposing team has a lot of. Suddenly all the beskar armour on the battlefield has become a vulnerability instead of a strength. Farrus will be able to ragdoll the Mandalorians around the palace and remove and/or drain any of their weapons.
Din’s darksaber? Gone. Beviin’s crushgaunts? Gone. PROXY himself? Gone. Obviously Farrus can’t be in 10 places at once, but the range and accuracy on these weapons is very impressive.

Spoiler: Calling Gloves examples

Spoiler: Calling Gloves controlled by the Spark Eternal

Valance has a game changer of his own with his hand cannons. I went over these in the previous argument showing just how powerful they are and how he was able to clear waves of enemies on his own with them. Valance doesn't hold back. As seen in all of his fights, wether it be against Vader, Bossk or 4-LOM for example, he unleashes everything he's got and ends up overpowering them most of the time.

Spoiler: Valance's hand cannons

Durge and Rayvis are walking tanks. They have an army's worth of weapons and explosives on their own. Rayvis' back mounted missile launcher is enough to do some serious damage on its own. Durge has used missiles before as well.

Bossk is armed to the teeth with weapons like a grenade launcher and thermal detonators, but his biggest game changer will be the dioxis grenades which produce poisonous gas clouds. I think half the enemy team will be fine because of their helmets and PROXY being a droid, but everyone else will be in danger. The location is also indoors meaning the gas will be harder to avoid and get rid of.

There's also Qi'ra’s hidden supply of thermal detonators, Kreel's lightsaber, Gideon's electro staff, and a range of other blasters and melee weapons between everyone. Overall there's a great mix of both ranged and melee weapons on my team.
My bounty hunters can also rig specific spots with explosives after studying the palace during prep time. This is how Fennec knocked Cad Bane out during their showdown.

Qi’ra with prep time is one of the biggest threats in this battle. As the leader of Crimson Dawn, she has power and influence everywhere in the galaxy. She has undercover agents on every major world and in every major organisation, keeping nothing secret from her. She pretty much has unlimited wealth and can buy whatever she wants.
In 24 hours during this prep time I can imagine all the crazy weapons and things Qi’ra would be able to get her hands on for the team. Weapons and modifications specifically designed to deal with Mandalorians and Vong wouldn’t be too farfetched. Farrus also has a wealth of knowledge about ancient artefacts and weapons, so their combined knowledge may end up being extremely useful.
With maximum prep time Qi’ra (with Farrus’ help) was able to orchestrate and pull off what no one else has ever done - capturing Darth Sidious and Darth Vader together. They couldn’t even escape even by unleashing their combined power. She was then going to throw them into a sun and they would have been killed had it not been for the Knights of Ren turning on Qi’ra.
She always had a well thought out path to victory with a plan B and C ready.

I can imagine a similar situation with Gideon, one of the highest ranking Imperials during his time. I’m sure he’d have access to all sorts of crazy technology. Look at the Darktrooper armour he managed to develop for example. And one of his main goals was to destroy the Mandalorians. This is perfect for him.

And then let's not forget about the Spark Eternal which can corrupt anyone on my team, increasing their power, strength, durability, speed and skills, turning them into a ruthless warrior. It doesn't have to use Farrus, but that would be a safe pick. Can you imagine the Spark corrupting Valance, Bossk or Durge?

On the other team, one weapon to watch out for is Shimrra’s poisonous amphistaff, as this is what got him close to killing Luke. But in the 24 hours of prep time, my team will know that Shimrra and his weapon will be the biggest threat so would make it a priority to deal with.
Farrus could use the Whip of Sorrows to take it away, Fennec could snipe it out of his hand, or Gideon could straight up crush it with his Darktrooper armour. There’s many ways to deal with it.


Location

Let's look at ways the location can be used to my advantage here:
As mentioned above, this is a great location for Fennec to take a vantage spot and blast the opponents from a safe distance. The palace is big and open enough for her to never actually step foot in the battle.

Farrus' Calling Gloves are capable of using the environment as a weapon. We've seen Farrus use shipping containers and a chandelier as a weapon before, so I'm sure there'd be plenty of objects to turn into weapons around the palace.

Spoiler: Calling Gloves vs. objects

 

I’d throw up an argument if I thought I could win. But I honestly don’t see how I do — while I’ve got the best fighter in the match in Shimrra and Jordan’s got the weakest (excluding Porgs/Spark Eternal itself) in Kreel he’s just got too much depth in between there (particularly because he has all of the next four strongest after Shim on his squad). I don’t see any reason to wait and would prefer just to judge.

 

I think that's selling Dash incredibly short SithO and you never know how this judge crew is gonna go-- everyone's got different reads. Look at what just happened for example lol.

 

Yeah. I don't see this as cut and dry. Please give an argument SithO. I think your team has certain advantages that could lead to victory, but if you concede, I'll be forced to vote for Jordan's team.

 

I'll argue tomorrow.

 

Time to throw up my argument:

Team Battle: Shim & The Outcasts (Captain Din Djarin, Shimrra Jamaane, Kir Kanos, PROXY, Dash Rendar, Theron Shan, Tor Vizsla, Goran Beviin, PORGS, and Jagged Fel) vs. An Ode to Tartakovsky (Captain Qi'ra, Durge, Bossk, Beilert Valence, Moff Gideon, Fennac Shand, Sergeant Kreel, Rayvis, Spark Eternal, and Kho Phồn Farrus)

At first glance, this seems like a mismatch and I'll freely admit that I thought it was a mismatch too. However, when I took a second look (actually a tenth look, but who's counting) I began to see things differently. Here's why:

First, Jordan, you kind of forgot the fact that BOTH sides have 24 hours of prep time. Yes, prep time will provide Fennac with more time to assemble her weapons, but it is FAR more beneficial to my squad -- and that's not because of the extra armor. I've already detailed in one of our earlier matchups how much Theron improves with prep, but I'm going to be honest here: he's not even the best prep on my squad (and Jag isn't either). The best prep on my squad is Dash Rendar and I'm going to drop an old @KenKenobi quote to explain why:

"Dash has prep. He can arm himself to the teeth with things he's used before like:
--a jetpack
--shield generators
--even more durasteel armor for his blast vest
--the SotE flamethrower
--seeker missiles (which damage Fett's ship, they could literally end this thing in like 4 secs)
--thermal dets
--disruptor rifles
--pulse cannons

He's got access to Yuuzhan Vong weaponry from sabotage efforts per the NEGTC.

He's got Ssi-ruuk entechment at his disposal per Star Wars Insider (can you say PTSD for Han from Cloud City?)

He's got Guri's patented tech from their time creating another Human Replica Droid together" (@KenKenobi, The First SWC Muggles Draft - The Draft Who Lived, Page 49 Post 1213).

Oh, did I forget to mention his bonkers fears? I think I'll mention them again: "On Gall, for example, Dash takes Boba Fett one-one-one. Defeats him straight up. (This is after, keep in mind, Dash had already cleared through several stormtrooper patrols, probe droids, sentry droids, seeker droids, Imperial Commandos that include the likes of converted ARC Troopers per Traviss, and taken out a friggin' AT-ST)

Then Fett jumps into the Slave I, and Dash literally whoops him again. On foot. Against the greatest bounty hunter ever piloting his starship. It's one of the most badass feats by anyone in the entire draft.


On Ord Mantell he takes out IG-88 one-on-one. Defeats him straight up. (This is after he'd already blown through: dogbots, packs of IG drones, assassin droids, and train guards...all with only a blaster pistol, aboard a hovertrain that rendered his other weapons useless)


At Hoth his kill count is literally a full platoon of stormtroopers, several probe droids (remember it took Chewie and Han working together to trick the single one they took out in ESB), another AT-ST...and I kid you not, a couple wampas." (@KenKenobi, The First SWC Muggles Draft - The Draft Who Lived, Page 49 Post 1213).

There is a very strong argument to be made that Dash (Prep) is the second best fighter in this matchup and at worst is the third-best (behind Shim -- who's got the best feat in the draft in fighting Prime NJO Luke plus NJO Jacen to a literal standstill in a fight to the death -- and Durge). I don't see anyone on Jordan's team that has enough skill to take out an entire starship piloted by Boba Fett while on foot after having defeated Fett in one-on-one combat (after basically slaughtering his way through a literal army).

Second, you kind of forgot that many members of my team have fought some top-tier combatants. Let's list them by individual:
Shim: Fought NJO Luke + NJO Jacen to a standstill (Luke is the unanimous #1 overall Jedi Draft pick and Jacen by the end of NJO is probably a top three/four round pick himself)
Din: Fought Gideon multiple times (and Fennac)
Kanos: Admittedly he has the weakest resume of my group in terms of top combatant, but Conor Jax is nothing to sneeze at and was a better combatant than anyone that Kreel (best feat is against pre-ESB Luke) and Farrus (best feat is against unprepared Aphra) have fought.
PROXY: Sparing fights against Galen Marek (second round Jedi Draft pick) and short fights against Vader/Boba Fett
Rendar: Already mentioned above -- wins over Boba Fett twice (including once with Slave One backup) and IG-88 are notable
Theron: Two Dark Council Members, part of a strike team that fought Revan (Second Round Jedi Draft pick)
Tor Vizsla: Beat Jango Fett twice (First Round Muggle Draft pick)
Goran Beviin: Sparring win over Jaina Solo (Second Round Jedi Draft Pick)
PORGS: Are Porgs -- who wants to kill those beautiful beasts. Also good at getting intelligence
Jagged Fel: Sparring win over Jaina Solo, win over Alema Rar (late round Jedi Draft pick/top undrafted?)

That's solid performances against Prime Legends Luke, NJO Jacen, Gideon, Fennac Shand, Starkiller, Boba Fett, IG-88, Revan, Jango Fett, and Jaina Solo (plus a short fight against Vader).

Thirdly, your back-end excluding Rayvis kind of sucks -- Farrus by herself is virtually featless, Kreel's best win is against pre-ESB Luke, and Rayvis, for as good as he is, has a best opponent of Cal Kestis -- who's a mid-round Jedi Draft pick at best. Tor's got better feats than any of them in his two thrashings of Jango, and I'd argue that Jag/Beviin have near-equivalent feats when adjusting for the difference between sparring and actual combat.

Fourth, my squad brings quite a few weapons to battle itself. Besides all the weapons which Rendar carries with prep and all the regular armament which my squad brings in (Theron's Toxicity Darts, Mandalorian Crushgaunts, Electrostaffs, blasters, Shim's OP Amphistaff, PROXY's collection of weaponry including multiple lightsabers and blasters, PROXY's force-replication repulsorlifts) we also gain Jag's armor/Crushgaunts, his detonator-enhanced blaster pistol, and a ton of weapons which Mando carries including Shistling Birds, the Darksaber, a Beskar Staff, smoke bombs, flash charges, grav charges, a micro-grenade launcher, a flamethrower, and many more cool stuff. Oh, and Dash's seeker missiles. Can't forget those.

Additionally, I'm pretty sure Qi'ra won't be able to get stuff which she order from the Galactic weapons dealership shipped to our arena in 24 hours (or if it's even allowed in the first place) so she'll have to struggle without any special weapons that deal with the Vong **** that both Shim and Rendar have while having nobody on her squad with any experience against Yuuzhan Vong.

Fifth, there's the X-Factor of Porgs. We've already seen those cuddly bastards steal Rey's lightsaber from her -- is there no possibility that they could sneak up, grab the Spark Eternal, bring it to my side, and have one of my squad members use it or get it hacked. Those little buggers will cause utter chaos in this fight stealing **** from your side.

Sixth, let's talk about cohesion for a bit. Yes, the Vong and the Mandalorians ended up enemies by the end of the Vong War, but they did start the war as allies -- and Shim himself is not that opposed to heretical thinking or allies as proven by his use of the Slayers (who were basically transformed/altered force-sensitive slaves and were a massive violation of the Shaping Protocols). He's not Tsavong Lah (who was extremely fanatical in his beliefs) -- the Supreme Overlord was a pragmatist. We've seen Mando able to ally multiple groups that utterly hate each other for a common goal -- if he can ally the free people of Tatooine with the Tusken Raider natives, he can certainly ally the Vong with the Mandalorians. I don't see Qi'ra having as much success convincing Fennac to ally with someone who literally tried to kill her allies or Valence (who's got Rebel sympathies) to ally with a high-ranking Imperial -- to say nothing for Gideon having concerns of allying with someone who tried to assassinate his Emperor. I'd give my squad an ever-so-slight cohesion advantage.

Seventh, there's the problem of multiple members of your squad regularly overestimating themselves, underestimating their opponents, or straight-up finding defeat in the jaws of victory against inferior combatants -- we've seen Durge underestimate a kid Boba and get TKO'd by Fett, we've seen Bossk regularly get both outfought and outthought by his opponents, and we've seen Gideon underestimate his opponents regularly. I can easily see them walking into traps set by Theron or Din that blow them to pieces or at least knock them out for long enough that my squad can take them out.

Finally, there is the factor of motivation. I don't see anyone on your side who has extra motivation to win the fight besides just winning the fight. On the other hand, my squad is not just fighting for themselves -- they know that if they lose this fight their families will die. Theron's not just fighting for my team, he's also fighting because if he loses his girlfriend Lana will die. It's the same for Jag with regards to Jaina, Beviin with regards to Medrit Vasur (his husband) and Dinua Jeban (his adopted son), Kanos with Mirith Sinn (his girlfriend), and especially with Mando and Grogu. All of them are going to give their all and then some to win this fight.

I keep trying to visualize this fight in my head and I can't stop seeing one particular outcome come to fruition a surprising amount of times. That outcome involves Porgs, Seeker missiles, a missing Spark Eternal, a destroyed palace, and my side being victorious with minimal casualties.

Without prep, my side would probably lose, but we have prep, and that completely switches the outcome. Shim's winning this fight -- it'll likely be bloody (unless the outcome mentioned above happens) with a large amount of deaths on my side -- for a bare majority of say 5.5/10.

 

Great argument. I’ll respond to those points tomorrow.

 

Goddamn that was an incredible argument

Long live the draft

 

First of all, you’re completely right. I did forget several of the feats you listed. That does make the skill level of our teams even closer than I initially thought. Both of our teams have great feats against high level opponents.

That is a fantastic arsenal to bring into a fight. But a few of my fighters have arsenals just as impressive.

Bossk - grenade launcher, blaster rifle, dioxis grenades, proximity mines, thermal detonators, flamethrower.
Durge - heavy combat armour with computer system, large multi-barrelled rifle, blaster pistols, blaster rifle, jetpack, energised bolas, gatling gauntlets, flamethrower, spiked flail, dart launchers, energy shields, missiles, grenades, wrist blade.
Rayvis - powerful suit of armour, back mounted missile launchers, large repeating blaster, hybrid between a mace and flail.
Gideon - dark trooper armour made of beskar, jetpack, electrostaff, rocket launcher, whipcord launcher, blaster, flamethrower, Darksaber.

Valance is also a walking terminator. What I didn’t mention before was his body has room for future upgrades, which he could install during the prep time. For example, one of his arms was designed with space for weapons such as a vibroblade or concussion disc launcher should he need them in the future. I think now’s the time for the upgrades considering he’s about to enter the biggest fight of his life!
Maybe he could even install upgrades that would prove useful for this particular battle. Particular weapons that will get him the advantage over any of the opponents. I’m sure him and Fennec could cook up some great stuff together.

I don’t completely disagree here. They were my bottom picks for a reason, but I still think they have a lot of value.
I agree that Kreel is the least valuable, but he’s still far from useless. He’s physically very strong, as seen when he destroys two MagnaGuards (which were used to fight Jedi during the Clone Wars). His lightsaber will also come in very handy, especially when it comes to deflecting and redirecting blaster fire. Bringing a lightsaber to a gun fight is always a bonus if you know how to use it.

Farrus may not have lots of feats, but the main takeaway is their weapons. That’s a big reason why I drafted them. The combination of the Whip of Sorrows and Calling Gloves turns Farrus into one of the most powerful people in this fight. Add in the Spark Eternal and they might even be #1 in terms of pure power because of the massive boost it gives.
Farrus could literally throw every opponent against a wall at once with the Spark controlling the Gloves. Since it’s a team battle and everyone’s working together, Farrus could even dedicate their role in the fight to “Force pushing” everyone around to disarm them and create openings.

The more firepower the opposition brings to the fight, the more toys Farrus has to play with. If Dash brings some powerful blaster for example, Farrus could just drain it with the Whip of Sorrows and send the power right back at him in an explosive burst.

PROXY’s got a bunch of lightsabers? No worries. Farrus can just do stuff like this:
This is a flashback sequence. Miril turns the Sith’s own lightsabers against them in a deadly fashion.

Spoiler: Spark Eternal / Calling Gloves / Whip of Sorrows combo

So it’s not all about the feats here, it’s also what they’ve shown to be capable of and what they could achieve when thrown into this sort of fight.

Those damn Porgs are more likely to sabotage their own team than help. Look at what happened during the Battle of Crait - they were sabotaging the Falcon in the middle of battle, driving Chewie mad!
And the fact they were trying to activate Rey’s lightsaber while looking down the hilt…

I really don’t see Fennec and Valance letting Gideon get in the way of a victory and a paycheck. It will definitely cause some drama, there’s no doubt about that. But Fennec in her prime had no allegiance, she would go after whoever she was hired to for the credits. And Valance’s history in the Empire would make it easier for him to temporarily ally himself with Gideon. Qi’ra will literally offer them the biggest paychecks of their lives for this battle.

But you’re right, Qi’ra and Gideon working together would be the biggest obstacle to overcome since she was the one who almost killed his Emperor.
Would he let working with her get in the way of killing a bunch of Mandalorians and having a chance at capturing Grogu once again? I think he’s smart enough to deal with it for one fight considering what a victory would mean.
Qi’ra could use her more verbal skills to talk him into a deal, offering him anything he desired. Remember she has power on every major system and in every major organisation in the galaxy. Would she lie to Gideon and betray him after the fight? Maybe. I could see that happening. But it doesn’t matter what happens after.

I think you are very wrong here. I think we’re underestimating just how powerful credits can be. Over the years, how much chaos and trouble have we seen bounty hunters bring? Boba Fett, Jango Fett, Cad Bane, Bossk, Din Djarin, Fennec, IG-88, etc. Look at who they’ve fought and killed, and what they’ve done just to get a paycheck.
Do you really think Durge, Bossk, Fennec and Valance won’t be motivated to win when offered the biggest paycheck of their lives?

Valance also has family he cares deeply for (Yuralla Vega and Cadeliah). He went through a whole ordeal against Zuckuss and 4-LOM to protect them.
And Farrus has a girlfriend (Detta Yao) and is very close friends with Aphra and her crew.

And of course Rayvis has his honour. He won’t accept anything less than a warrior’s death from a worthy opponent. I could definitely see him going up against the biggest threat, Shimrra, and going out with a bang while leaving the Vong battered ready to finish off. That would be one hell of a fight.

But I don’t think anyone’s families will die if they lose. I don’t see why my team would go on some mission to hunt them down and kill them. Grogu would definitely be in danger, but that’s about it.


I also just thought of a crazy idea that would actually work. We all know by now how the Spark Eternal can make the host superhuman and capable of surviving fatal wounds. Instead of the Spark choosing one host, what’s to stop it jumping from person to person saving whoever’s in the most trouble? This would keep my teammates alive while giving them a massive strength and skill boost, while also empowering their weapons. Sort of like a video game power up.

Can you imagine Qi’ra is about to fall in battle, then the Spark jumps into her body, lets her tank a blaster shot to the shoulder, then powers up the electro batons for her to slam down.
Or Valance is in a bit of a tough spot so the Spark jumps on in and puts his hand canons into maximum overdrive and obliterates a whole section of the palace. You know how in the Looney Tunes when one of them gets blown up and all that’s left is their shoes on the ground with smoke coming out of them? That’d be Dash in that situation if he was on the other end of that assault.

There’s so many different possibilities. But why would the Spark bother saving anyone? Simple - If the team loses, the Spark loses. And trust me, it doesn’t like losing. It may not be a physical being, but it has motivations of its own.

 

Also I just wanna post a bit about Durge’s strength and durability. Here’s some crazy examples:

Durge is beating the heck out of Anakin Skywalker, and grows claws out of his severed arm which he uses as a weapon against the Jedi.

Spoiler: Durge vs. Anakin Skywalker

Here he beats the heck out of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Later on Obi-Wan says he thinks Durge cracked his skull.

Spoiler: Durge vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Here we see Durge get shot through the head and instead of killing him it just annoys him.

Spoiler: Durge tanks shot to head

This one is a bit over the top. Grievous impales Durge with two lightsabers and decapitates him. Durge simply says “ouch” as his severed head bounces along the floor.
So Shimrra or Din could slice his head off and he’d still be in the fight. Someone would just need to reunite his head and body.

Spoiler: Durge vs. Grievous

Then of course there’s the famous fight between him and Obi-Wan in the animated series. Let’s look at what goes down there:


To start, Durge knocks over an AT-TE with his lance. Obi-Wan then hits Durge with a lance at full speed on a speeder and the lance breaks, showing just how strong Durge’s armour is. Especially since Obi-Wan destroyed IG droids with it just before this.
Durge then tanks an explosion, gets impaled by Kenobi’s lightsaber, starts laughing and continues to beat the heck out of the Jedi.

He then unleashes a barrage of firepower and weaponry, and it is only countered because of Kenobi’s use of the Force and his lightsaber. The Force is something these opponents will not have, and as far as lightsabers go, Din is nowhere near as experienced as a Jedi Knight.
Kenobi then slices Durge’s arm off and cuts his body in half. Durge heals from this very quickly.

This is when it gets out of control. Later on Durge comes back and tanks blaster fire and explosions from an entire squad of clone troopers.
Then even after he loses his armour he continues to tank an entire squad’s blaster fire, while destroying them all and fighting Obi-Wan.

This guy is insane. There’s a reason I picked him first in the draft and I think he’s going to be a huge game changer for my team.


The reason I bring all of this up is because the outcome may very well come down to who can stay standing the longest. Who’s the most durable and who can take the most punishment.

One of the major points of SithO’s team is the weapons they can bring to the table with prep time. A big counter I have to that is my team’s durability. Bring an entire army’s worth of weapons if you want, because you’re gonna need it.

Here’s a breakdown on just how durable my team is:
Can regrow and reattached limbs - Durge, Rayvis
Can continue fighting after losing a limb - Durge, Rayvis, Bossk, Valance
Can tank blaster fire - Durge, Rayvis, Bossk, Valance, Gideon, Spark Eternal host
Can tank explosives - Durge, Rayvis, Bossk, Valance, Spark Eternal host
Can tank lethal melee attacks - Durge, Rayvis, Bossk, Valance, Gideon, Spark Eternal host

Half of my team can get blown up, lose an arm, and keep on fighting.

 

Excellent, excellent arguments and counter arguments from both of you. Would you each like to get a final word in? Or shall we judge?

 

I’m good for judgements if SithO is. If I think of anything I’ll add it in while I wait.

 

I'll throw my final counterargument up tomorrow.

 

Time for my counterargument:

First, regarding weapons, I actually forgot a weapon which Shim gets with prep -- Anakin Solo's lightsaber (we see him wielding it during his duel against Jacen/Luke at the end of TUF). But the weapons which I listed (possibly excluding the seeker missiles) aren't the most important issue for Jordan's team that I see in this matchup considering the ability to prep -- that goes to the HRD knowledge. Dash has Guri's knowledge on how to create functional HRD's -- and there happens to be a solid amount of droid material for Rendar to construct some droids -- just imagine Valence or Farrus seeing their paramours enter the building, embracing them, and then setting off a remote detonator which blows them to bits (plus, PROXY can easily morph himself into one of the aforementioned paramours and kill the unsuspecting combatant). Oh, and Dash also carries Vong weaponry/armor -- which includes the following: blast bugs (armor-breaching creatures which explode like guided missiles), razor bugs (living knives that can shred flesh and cut through certain types of armor), thud bugs (basic Vong ranged weaponry that can lock on targets and knock out opponents) and the trademark amphistaff (is lightsaber-proof, can spit venom at 20 meters which will blind the target and basically shut down the oxygen supply of the victim thus beginning 20 hours of painful suffering before the victim dies -- and your side has no experience against Vong and nobody able to create an anti-venom so if it gets in the eyes of any of your men they are literally out of action and dead, and can turn into a spear, a whip (which can still poison you), or a quarterstaff). Did I mention Dash gets one of these with prep alongside the other Vong weapons (which I'm certain Shim has)?

Second, regarding the Porgs I still think you underestimate those crazy birds. You've seen them cause havoc to the Falcon and steal Rey's saber when they were working for themselves -- I can only imagine how chaotic they can be against your squad when directed by an actual ally.. If they can work together to steal a lightsaber off a Jedi, then they can work together to steal the Spark Eternal or at least misplace it for long enough that it will affect the outcome (and would anyone on your side excluding Farrus know how to handle the Spark on their first attempt). Actually, I just got a great idea: have the Porgs drop blast bugs on your side which will kill pretty much everyone but Durge/Rayvis since it can breach basically any armor.

Third, Qi'ra might be in charge of Crimson Dawn, but I've got two characters in Shim/Jag who actually ruled whole Empires (well, Jag was technically head of state for the Imperial Remnant and was implied to be the first Emperor of the Fel Empire). Shim was literally the leader of the entire galaxy for a period -- if Nom Anor can buy off a high-ranking member of the Mandalorians with 100,000 Credits (Beviin), then Shim -- who probably has the entire Vong treasury under his belt as the ruler of the Yuuzhan Vong Empire -- should certainly be able to spare a couple million credits to buy off Durge or another one of your bounty hunters who is only fighting for credits such as Shand (especially if Fel chucks in some credits himself). Having someone who rules an entire galaxy-spanning empire added to someone who rules a significant part of the galaxy should be more than a match for Qi'ra's financial abilities.

Fourth, regarding the Spark and force-using, did you forget that PROXY has his own force-equivalent repulsers that can counteract the Spark -- we saw Vader remove the Spark from Aphra via Force Push and I can easily see PROXY trying and succeeding at doing the same here.

Finally, I'll give your side credit on the durability argument, but I don't need to kill everyone on your squad to win this fight -- I just need to kill the ones who can't regenerate and disable the ones who can. Shim's skilled enough that the only person on your side who even has a prayer for matching him is Durge -- Rayvis is at best NJO Jacen level and when you consider that Shim bodied Jacen while still fighting the GOAT of Jedi Drafts in Luke I don't see how Rayvis does much against the Vong Overlord. That said, I don't need to kill Durge here -- I just need to disable him. If Durge loses his head while fighting I don't see anyone on his side having enough time to reattach the head back to Durge's body. I could easily see Durge getting himself blown up as well -- the guy is extremely arrogant and routinely underestimates his opposition and could easily fall into one of the traps set by Theron (I can see Theron trying to hack into one of the computer systems of Valence's body or Gideon's suit for that matter -- if he can hack starship shields with his cyvbernautic implants he should be easily able to hack into individual cyborg suits -- just imagine if Valence's body or Gideon's suit start malfunctioning mid-battle).

{Side note: I'm interested in seeing how Shim's amphistaff venom works on Gen'dai -- it basically had Luke Skywalker in a permanent coma which would have killed him had Jacen not possessed the SW equivalent of Phoenix Tears. I could easily see it putting Durge/Rayvis into a permanent coma which would make the battle far easier.}

This is going to be a close fight, but I still think my side barely pulls it off.

 

I overlooked this. If the Spark is allowed to get in the mix with the opposition, then what’s to stop it turning SithO’s team against each other? Maybe it doesn’t bond with anyone on my team, but adds an extra member to my squad by corrupting PROXY for example.

In the comics after the whole ordeal with Crimson Dawn, the Spark was done with humans so it moved on to machines and almost took over the entire galaxy.
So if it did corrupt PROXY, it would turn him into an even more dangerous killing machine for our side to use however they want.
The Spark increases the skill and power levels of its host, so I can only imagine what it could do with PROXY’s programming and weaponry.

Also you can’t grab the Spark as it’s not a physical being.

Vader and PROXY are on two very different levels. Aphra possessed by the Spark was able to put up a small fight against Vader and even disarm his lightsaber. His Force push is far more powerful than PROXY’s artificial powers. Plus as seen during their fight, once the Spark leaves the host it just floats away to the next target. It cannot be grabbed or caught.

Spoiler: Aphra / Spark vs. Vader

And lastly, I can’t believe I missed this. The Spark Eternal can bring the Null Blade into battle:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Null_Blade

It was a large sword forged with cortosis alloy, which as we know can short out lightsaber blades. That’s how Aphra was able to fight Vader.
So I also have a weapon that can nullify PROXY, Shimrra, and Din’s lightsabers. This is a big bonus to have in the battle.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the only time in which the Spark corrupts people happen when it's inside the Scourge (the malevolent droid intelligence that's goal was to corrupt people and other droids). The Spark Eternal by itself never desired to corrupt anyone before usage by the Scourge and thus an argument can be made that the Spark won't be able to corrupt people since you don't have the Scourge and I'll gladly make that argument.

(Also, can we preemptively ban the Scourge from future usage in this draft -- it's way too overpowered)

 

Also, forgive me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the Spark Eternal join Ajax Sigma’s cult after the Scourge is destroyed by Sigma and it’s put into a new droid body which is loyal to Sigma’s cult? By that comparison (along with how it responded in creating the Scourge), if it infects PROXY it should gain PROXY’s beliefs and loyalties — which are to keep Galen Marek alive and thus are to my side as your side will kill him if they win. Therefore, infecting PROXY with the Spark would be counter beneficial to your side.

 

It can enter a body to make them it’s new host, as seen when it took over Aphra’s body and resurrected her from the dead.

Then after Vader Force pushed it out of her body eventually, it tried to enter her body once more but was stopped. So yes, it can and will corrupt anyone. And this all happened before the Scourge fiasco.

So people, definitely. Droids? I think so. Because once it didn’t have a human host to corrupt, it fled into a droid disc which created the Scourge.
To play it safe we can say the Spark is banned from using anyone on the enemy team, but the fact still remains that it can use anyone on my team however it pleases, which is a huge advantage.

And no, when it corrupts someone or something it doesn’t gain their beliefs. It only became loyal and stopped trying to take over the galaxy once it was defeated.
The Spark turns the host into a monster. Although its first host and creator, Miril, managed to use it without being corrupted. So during prep time, Farrus (who was obsessed with the cult that created it) can figure out how to use it properly and effectively.

 

I’m good for judgments now. Jordan, it’s been a pleasure arguing with you.