The official Darth Bane: Rule of Two discussion thread (spoilers allowed)

Hey Drew, you're aware that in the Phantom Menace novel, it refers to Bane's apprentice as a he, right?

Does that mean we might see the redemption of Zannah, and Bane's acquiring a new apprentice?

 

Fixed. No redemptions, please.

It would be a crying shame to see Zannah go, however. She was a revelation of a character. Truly wonderful. Let's think of the "he" in TPM as a typo, shall we?

 

exactly its just ONE letter!!!

 

Or the Jedi getting it wrong, maybe. Wouldn't be the first time. Then again, I don't know the context of the TPM novelization.

 

The "he" thing is revealed when Sidious thinks back on the Sith's history, IIRC.

 

Ah. So blows my theory out of the water. Still, it's just a one letter difference, and easy to ignore.

 

Again, I think its safe to consider it officially retconned.

 

What sold me on the book was the info it gave on the Jedi Archives. Im a Jedi Temple fanatic and all that info almost sent me over the edge. Other then that I really liked the book though I found myself pleading with the words on the page to read at least one of the Jedi survived the Duel on Tython. Oh well.

 

What a great book, it was well worth the wait.


What I liked

Valenthyne Farfalla ? wise, Nobel, powerful & stylish. The book really padded out this great Jedi.

Bane ? he?s just overwhelming. Loved the fact that due to his near invulnerability he is more then willing to throw defense out of the window.

Darth Zannah ? cunning & ruthless.

The duel on Tython ? the best duel I have read since Count Dooku vs Kenobi & Skywalker in ROTS.

The fact that each individual has their strengths, weaknesses & lightsaber style described, I wish every book did this.

The fact that Farfalla & Johun Othone despite been heroes of Ruusan aren?t exactly super powered.

The first appearances of Tython & Tarsus Valorum outside of the essential guide.

The fact there are only 12 lost Jedi at this stage is a nice touch.


Random thoughts

As soon as the Jedi travel to Tython to collect there dead and see that the jedi where killed in open combat I feel that they are going to suspect that perhaps Darovit was not the culprit. After all one individual with negligible force sensitivity taking down 3 masters & 2 knights is hard to except, especially when one jedi was a member of the high council & another was perhaps the orders finest swordsman.

Surely Kopecz & Kaan who are described in various sources as having been Jedi masters are among the lost.

I think its obvious how Zannah is going to kill off Bane. Right now Bane wants that orbalisk armor back, judging by his force spirit in the legacy comic he will get it back at which stage Zannah will give him a blast of Sith lightning & kill him.

Since every apprentice has to be stronger then there master I guess that Palpatine is way stronger then Bane.


I just love this era.

 

Yeah, what I liked was the implication that his lightsaber skills had perhaps atrophied (or, at the very least, got no better) over the years. I always had the impression that the Darth Bane at the end of PoD would have crippled anyone (short of Ka'sim) within seconds if he didn't have to worry about defence. Despite his regret at the end of the book, I think the loss of the orbalisks is a good thing. They were making him sloppy.

Heh, I think she'll kill him while they're in the sack.

Just to live up to the "bad meaning" behind her name.

(Kel gave her "what Bane couldn't" eh? )

I'm not sure. In theory, this is definitely the case, but in practice you do get Sith - like Palpatine himself - who will off you in your sleep rather than in battle. The RoTers seem to have adopted the stance that "It's okay to train an apprentice to overthrow my master with" as well, which directly contradicts how Bane views his Rule in RoT.

Bane clearly would frown on such activities, because the RoT - by his own logic - was a way in which to prevent the dilution of Sith Power. If there's a "4" and a "2", and they combine to take out a "5" - the Sith are weakened because the top dog is now only a 4.

(Side note: It also seems that the "both Master and Apprentice" are "Dark Lord of the Sith" thing was a later addition to the Rule. It's made plain over and over again that Zannah will only become Dark Lord of the Sith once she has killed Bane. With any luck, the whole "two Dark Lords" thing will be retconned as a Palpatine specific aspect to the Rule of Two.)

I did like the implication, however, that Bane was perhaps not as amazingly strong as first implied in PoD. In fact, it seems in light of Zannah (who Bane acknowledges, it seems, as more talented than himself) that Bane's strength was only "super uber" in relation to the Sith Lords he was surrounded by....

 

Ulicus good points all round.

I think your right the Sith line did probably take a couple of steps back before getting to Palpatine. After all surely not every Sith lord that followed Bane would have been able to find a more force sensitive being then themselves.

Also some apprentices probably usurped the thrones thanks to patience & cunning rather then power. Perhaps simply by waiting for the master to die of natural causes or biding there time until there master was ancient before striking or even luring them into a trap.

Since Sith seem to have ultra long life spans I suppose there can?t have been more then 10 dark lords before Palpatine.

 

RoT certainly gave the impression there is only one Dark Lord.

I was expecting Bane to backpeddle after Zannah saved his life and make her his equal given she could already have been the Master had she just left him to die.

I do like the idea of it being something Palpatine brought in. "The Sith have won but I want to rule forever so I'll make you Dark Lord to stop you killing me in my sleep." Whoever did it I hope we hear a story behind it instead of just getting a retcon that says Zannah was a Dark Lord of the Sith but not the Dark Lord or something boring.

 

Ok, here's my two penneth worth.

Loved the book. Loved the BOTS/JVS retcon (ie how did the "force ghosts" appear in BOTS if the spirits are trapped in JVS). As I see it the "force ghosts" are Bane's hallucinations brought on via the thought bomb.

The Davorit v Zannah confrontation in the wrong place (reminds me of Braveheart for some reason!). What are we sourcing that says RoT is wrong?

I didn't like Johun's death. Earlier he was ready to die and be one with the force & the next he had pleading eyes (although that could be just Zannah's POV).

Also I liked the fact that you saw scenarios from different POVs that went back in time slightly (bit like Guy Ritchie films Lock, Stock, Snatch etc). Only problem with that is the lightsaber fight on Tython seemed to end abruptly (ie you didn't see the end for all POVs).

And to all those who say they haven't read BOTS...

http://www.starwars.com/hyperspace/member/fiction/f20040319/index.html

no excuse!!

 

Unless you're not a Hyperspace member....

I used one of my many "free trial periods" to get a hold of the story. It blew. Drew's version is by far superior and makes better sense in light of both PoD and/or JvS.

 

Nah, the Lost only refers to Jedi Masters who left the Order but didn't fall to the dark side, or who the Jedi didn't realize fell to the dark side. And Kopecz may never have been a Jedi Master.

 

Just finished it yesterday. Throughly enjoyable.

-Zannah is a great new addition, and I found her to be infinetly more interesting than Bane in this book. I've wanted to see more Sith that were Form III practioners (Form V is just too obvious), and more Sith with crazy mind powers. She gave me both.

-Farfalla was refreshing. It was nice to see a real "Jedi-y" Jedi master that wasn't Yoda or Obi Wan (as opposed to Mace, Quinlan, Kyle, etc).

-I was a little upset with Kel's Chiss lover in the begining, but just replace "Chiss" with "Duro" and it fixes itself.

-LOVED the duel on Tython. The fact that I was expected to get a final gilmpse of the fight from the Jedis' point of view, only to have them killed somewhat anonymously, made it all the more sudden and shocking. It was also nice to see people who were considered great Jedi, but were not that proficient with a lightsaber. To often (JACEN), skill with the Force has been translated to mean skill with the blade and in the cockpit.


EDIT: Kaje, I wonder if that means that the Lost Twenty have since become the Lost Nineteen?

 

Nah, the Jedi were too busy fighting a war to bother changing Dooku's status.

 

Talking of the ghosts, I actually was left wondering whether or not Kaan was the only hallucination and if Qordis was a genuine spirit. I just picked up on how Qordis was the only one who actually spoke and felt perhaps it was an invitation to a future retcon along those lines. Seeing as how Bane killed Qordis himself rather than him being killed by the thought bomb, it felt telling that Qordis was the one able to interact with him. Either way, I liked that it was left vague, its nice to not have everything spelt out in stone.

 

My interpretation is that they are hallucinations. Agreed Qordis prob wasn't trapped but then (I could be wrong) but (in RoT) didn't they disappear when the orbalisks attached themselves to Bane and he was cured of the though bomb affects? But as you say it is nice it's open to interpretation.

 

Even if the spirits are trapped, I think they can probably project.

 

Kinda pointless, then, huh?

Drew specifically went to the effort of spelling out that every spirit "trapped" by the thought bomb has no individuality left at all and that they've all been rent usunder and intermingled with one another.

Kaan being a hallucination isn't really up for debate, I don't feel. At least insofar as RoT on its own is concerned.

As for Qordis... well, I'm going to view him as a hallucination. Either way, his and Bane's exchanges have been changed to match up with PoD, and Drew makes sure that - unlike in BotS - it is the holocron and not Qordis' ghost that tells Bane about the orbalisks. Qordis can be debated though, I suppose.

 

To the above discussion about Qordis and Kaan interludes I felt they were hallucinations or even tests of the darkside of the Force.

The book details how severe Bane's headaches were. Headaches can do unbelievable things to people. I don't put hallucination past a headache.

---

I finished the book 2 days ago and have been digesting it. Much to the dismay of dp4m I'm going to start of with 1 negative:

1) This is something that really ticks me off from any publisher but especially when I'm paying for a hardback book - typos. There were tons and tons of typos in this book. Years ago (I'm that old) it was unheard of for a book to have typos. It was a death sentence in the industry and considered to be poor quality. Now a days I see more and more typos get through to print because people rely too much on spellcheck to catch them. Books need to be proofed, really proofed for typos and grammatical errors (not just syntax). </rant>

OK, sorry for the negative, onto my positives:

1) I liked the maturing of Zannah and the inner battle of her attachments to people -- with Kel and her attachment to TomCat. I found it interesting that she had a lover.

2) She walked right into the freakin' Jedi Temple! :O

3) The orbalisks (sp?) were a very interesting concept. If there is a book 3 I wonder how Bane will do without them. They almost seemed like a darkside crutch. I found them interesting but I wonder if they in some ways made Bane weak.

4) Holocrons - you gotta love holocrons! :D

5) The way Zannah used Caleb and TomCat . . . very Sithly of her. She is more and more becoming ready to assume the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. Hopefully there will be a book 3 and we will see this.

This series (more books! more books!) is fast becoming my favorite SW EU series. I love that we have these completely original characters. I gave Darth Bane: PoD an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10 and I'm giving Darth Bane: RoT a 9.9. I have to take off that .1 for the typos. ;)


[quote=DrewK]Hey, everyone - just dropping by to say hi.

[/quote]

<faints>

OMG! Drew!!! [face_hugs] I hope you enjoy posting here.

 

I liked the book alot though i do prefer PoD over RoT. Zannah was really a psychopath especially as a child, it made me wonder why she didn't have nightmares or any other nomal childish ways. I was stunned to see that she really didn't have remorse for the crew on the ship. I can understand if she felt threatened at all but she wasn't threatened. It just seemed she did some things that wouldn't seem natural for a child her age. Yes she is force sensitive, but that doesn't mean kids don't act the same or similar when put in a situation of fear. She was ruthless as a child and that seemed to be a bit over the top.

Also i was shocked that there was a Chiss roaming around the galaxy a bit too early.

 

I find that when I report typos they never make it back to Drew anyways (think of all of the psychotherapy you could have saved, Drew, if you'd gotten my Juyo/Vaapad note actually passed along!) so I don't think the blame is on him. But he does cover that in the blog entry he links, IIRC.

And yes, I was annoyed at a Chiss running around but moreso that people REFERRED to him in thought processes AS a Chiss, rather than "my blue-skinned companion of a strange species I'd never heard of before!"

 

Who used the name? People who know him? Perhaps he told them his species name. If they're strangers, well, bah.