Lit The Official Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Fair enough.

I can understand the sentiment, certainly. The idea of a Force entity is appealing and exciting. I just don't know if this series delivered on the potential, particularly of such a Lovecraftian being. At least Krayt, in the large canon, seems to have had more of an effect. Which in my mind, imbues him with more dread. That said, I definately can see the appeal in Luke going out in a drastic battle against the closest thing we have to a god.

 

I want Luke to die of old age, honestly. I think he earns that.

 

Or he at least deserves a vacation down to Florida.

Anyways, when it comes to my lack of SW knowledge compared to almost everyone here, my reaction to the book was a good one until Mortis was introduced. I've not put a lot of time into TCW and don't care much about it, but when Thuruht was showing Raynar and the group the pictures depicting the Ones I instantly knew what the book was mentioning and I let out an audible "pfft". Up until that point, I was enjoying the book but lost a lot of interest when Mortis was mentioned especially since I recall Anakin not remembering what had happened during their time on Mortis. It just didn't and still doesn't sit right with me. Also, although I'm a huge fan of the Legacy series, bringing Krayt into the fray just felt like a desperate attempt to get my hopes up that the next series will go in that direction. Sure, my two-cents are lacking in context, but I finally felt like I had more than a sentence to finally say about a SW I've read.

Question: I'm not sure what the answer is anymore, but who did Jacen see over Hapes telling him "Mine"? Was that Abeloth or Krayt?

 

As much as I am enjoying the book. (I am on Disk 9 of 14 in Audio Book)

How many frakin' times do we need an explanation of Abeloths eyes and mouth? Yes, we get the point. Eyes with points of stars and a mouth from ear to ear. Yes. Yes. "record skips"

Getting a bit sick of it to be honest. Every single time....

 

yeah, i assume that in audio, the repetitions are that much more obvious. I think one reason we see so much of that description, is so that the characters knew when Abeloth revealed herself. People like Tahiri, and Fett have never seen her up close. Tahiri just had descriptions to go by. Also many times the Jedi were facing a powerful Sith Lord, and not realizing it was Ableloth until they saw her true features. It is repetitive for us, but with her shape shifting ability, they never knew who they were truly fighting. I saw most of these descriptions had relevant context. I mean at first Luke thought he was fighting a really powerful sith lord, and it was abeloth all along.

also I agree that it was Jaina in the end. I loved it. I remember the huge burden she felt in the njo, when she was named sword. She basically was waiting for her time to die. She knew in her heart she could not make it out of the war alive, and she was so fatalistic. Of course she also fell to the dark side briefly during that time. In Dark Nest she became a joiner, and one could say she had a certain darkness to her even then. The dark has been chasing after Jaina relentlessly all her life, just as it had Luke. Finally she has become immune to the dark side. She has found true Mastery, that has little to do with power, and everything to do with self control and peace.

 

Absent right up to the point that it wasn't even on the back cover of Backlash with the rest of her. I was kind of wondering about that, with all the talk of her campaign images. Was there ever actually a mention of her wearing it in person?

 

JediMatteus : also I agree that it was Jaina in the end.

So why did she light a candle then? And if it was Jaina who bookmarked the series, why didn't she have a bigger role in most of the books?

To me, the passages almost seemed allegorical, like the woman was a reprensentation of the galaxy. Has anyone asked Denning about this?

 

JediMattheus - it was Jaina in the end. I loved it. I remember the huge burden she felt in the njo, when she was named sword. She basically was waiting for her time to die. She knew in her heart she could not make it out of the war alive, and she was so fatalistic. Of course she also fell to the dark side briefly during that time. In Dark Nest she became a joiner, and one could say she had a certain darkness to her even then. The dark has been chasing after Jaina relentlessly all her life, just as it had Luke. Finally she has become immune to the dark side. She has found true Mastery, that has little to do with power, and everything to do with self control and peace.

That's a great recap, JM and I completely agree!

 

I don't think it's Jaina either. Jaina hasn't had dark side issues since Dark Journey. She's never openly struggling with anything like that. We're given her POV severl times during the book. She's chaos in a fight. She loves to kick ass. Jaina is actually always self assured in every novel. The character that bookends the series seems much older and of singular purpose. To resist the dark. I have no idea who it really is but I think Jaina's last on the list. Why not Tahiri if we're naming possible female mortals?

 

Who says that they're supposed to be the same person?

Taking the one at the end on its own, I thought it was definitely Jaina; I saw it as an allusion to the postscript in Stover's Revenge of the Sith novelization. Now it's not just her resisting the darkness; she also has Jag, and his love (the candle) to help her stay away from it.

 

ATimson : Who says that they're supposed to be the same person?

Because they both start with the same exact sentence, and they're written in the same itallic print. They "bookend" the series.

 

Child-of-Winds - Does anyone have any other ideas about who the woman is at the beginning and ending of this FotJ series, the one lighting the candle at the end?

It's the same person for sure - but I don't think it's a "normal" mortal. For a long time, I thought it was Callista, it would have fit nicely - now I'm not sure. My best bet is the Daughter, or at least a similar light side incarnation. I know the daughter is supposed to be dead - but who am I to know the ways of the Force - LucasArts sure have full time work doing it already? Jokes aside, I think it's a Light side manifestation of sorts. Who says the Mortiss/Celietials even can be permanently killed? Abeloth was a mortal who became a Celestial, and she's proved herself to be extremely hard killed - but she's at least supposed to be 'killable'. But a "born" Celestial, wouldn't she only be, I dunno, put out of the game? Which this woman seems to be.

 

the only other person it could be is Tahiri. She has also never really had peace since Anakin died, and has fallen and come back. She has been many things and never has found peace and her niche. Either way it makes sense.

 

^My private message to Denning. Personally I'm starting to agree that it's the metaphorical one.

 

Yeah, he is so not going to answer that question.

I agree that it's an entity, not a human being. Certainly not any of the characters in the book.

 

I can dream, Manisphere.

 

The formatting doesn't really mean anything, but starting the same? Yeah, probably.

*goes back to read the old quote* Yeah, definitely.

Still think it's meant to be Jaina, though.

 

I assume it is supposed to be Jaina. However, I do wonder if it is actually the daughter, because of the whole staring into the darkness, resisting part. Sounds similar to the daughter/son plotline. I know she's supposed to be dead, but Abeloth isn't dead-dead, just weakened for now, so maybe the daughter and son are in a similar state.

 

WOW....that ending to the book was pure Star Wars. I almost heard the music from the end of A New Hope in my head.

I am NOT happy with Vestara's fate. I really wanted her and Ben to be together. For crying out loud, let people be happy already. All this constant war, death, and upset...just let people rest, relax, and be in love already. Heck, she didn't even get to tell the REAL story. Now everyone thinks she lead the whole thing, when she was only trying to escape up until the end. That really annoyed me how they did that. Very disappointed in their choice of what happens to her. All this build up, and nothing. I guess she is going to be some frakin' Villain now....what a waste. She was one of my favorite characters.

No mention of the other Jedi who were put under because of their madness infection from Abeloth. Where are they? What happened to them?

Where did Boba Fett go? I guess his search for a cure will still be ongoing.

Where did Tahiri go? I assume she was at the wedding. She should have been mentioned as an attendee, dressed in Jedi robes once again, to clear her story line up. She obviously wont get, or need, her promised trial. After all that happened to her and her part in the story line of these books, they should have book ended these things to tidy up.

But now....what's next? I hope some kind of news is released soon as to what transpires in the next books. PLEASE stop with the "Galaxy in war/turmoil and only the Jedi can save it" or "super evil thing/group/species taking over the galaxy" . Really sick of it, it;s been done enough now. Let things rest for awhile. Let these characters be happy. Have peace, in some form. Please.

 

I guess she is going to be some frakin' Villain now....what a waste. She was one of my favorite characters.

I agree about Vestara, however it is not a waste. Being killed off at the end like Jacen and every other villain is a waste. As long as she is alive there is a chance. If she is a villain, she is one of the few villain's to actually survive a series. So that's great

 

Abeloth survived, too... but it seems a majority of people aren't happy about that. I agree with what you say, both in reference to Vestara, but also think it applies well to Abeloth.

 

I haven't read the book yet.
However, from what I read of the spoilers, I gather Vestara killed her own father in order to join up with the One Sith?
So now basically Ben has no romantic partner. Tahiri was said to be too old. Seha Dorvalds was setting up nicely but then she became too old as well when Vestara came along. Now we have this girl who is almost/exactly the same age, and she's gonna be a villain. Seriously, she's no Mara. Vestara isn't going to give up being a Sith just because she found out that All Sith is lying scum ala Mara with Palpatine, because she is Palpatine.
What does the Ben/Ves or just Ves fanclub think about that? They have been strangely quiet.

On a little bit more relevant to the book itself, why isn't it on the New York Best Seller's List? Most Star Wars books are on their at least a couple to a handful of weeks before dropping off, but now it looks like it's not even going to be on there.

 

re: NYT Best-seller list. It's usually a week off in most cases, so check the following Sunday since that will have a full week of book sales (IIRC).

 

Vestara killed her dad in self defense.

I didn't necessarily need Ves to be Ben's future wife or girlfriend but I am ticked off that the only person in the entire galaxy Ben's age is now his enemy. Ben is pretty much where he was twenty one books ago. He's friendless with no one to interact with except his dad. I can't help but feel this was intentionally done by the creative team in order to insure that Ben remains as Luke's sidekick. Why would a sidekick need friends? A sidekick's only job is to remain in the hero's shadow .