Rogue One The Official "List Your Complaints about Rogue One" Discussion Thread

I could do without Saw Gerrera and Bor Gullet.

 

Without Bor Gullet, how would we know the truth?

 

Here's a crazy thought: ask for it, and examine the evidence to support the allegations. Weird, right?

 

I don’t like the idea of using CGI to “resurrect” dead actors for a movie.

Andor decides to spare Galen Erso’s life, but it’s not really clear why. I get they’re trying to show him having a character arc, but character arcs only really work if we’re shown a reason for a character to change.

This is a minor complaint, but I don’t really like the idea that Galen intentionally put a design flaw in the Death Star so that a torpedo launched through the exhaust port would destroy the station. It’s like they’re trying to address the people that say it’s a plot hole that the empire left such a weakness in the station’s design. I’ve never seen that as a plot hole. They say in ANH that the empire feels confident that a small one man fighter isn’t a threat. Plus they demonstrate how difficult a shot it is. The only reason the rebels succeeded was because they had Luke, who could use the Force to make the perfect shot, a shot even Red Leader couldn’t pull off.

 

That, to me, was one of the dumbest things in the movie. Especially when, a few years later, the Empire builds another Death Star and apparently didn't fix the flaw from the first one. Plus, the Death Star having an exhaust should never have been considered a plot hole. I mean, is it a plot hole in BEVERLY HILLS COP when Axel Foley puts a banana in the cops car exhaust? Do we need a BEVERLY HILLS COP prequel explaining that Axel's dad worked at the factory that built that car?

 

we're not gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe.

 

I laughed at this probably a little harder than I should have.

 

It wasn’t done just as an explanation. It was done to give Galen a character and story purpose (an interesting Oppenheimer-esque arc), and to show that major historical actions are always the result of many working together, not just the heroic individual. Rosa Parks didn’t just one day decide to sit in the front of the bus. She was part of a larger movement that built up to that point over many years, and with whom she worked to act strategically in that moment. The idea that Galen, Saw, Jyn, the Rogue One crew, Luke, Leia, Han and the broader Rebel Alliance all played important parts in destroying the Death Star is both inspiring and realistic to me. Crazily, Rogue One actually makes the OT better. I didn’t think that was possible, but it happened.

*runs out of complaint thread*

 

Galen could have provided the Rebels with the location of the Death Star plans on Scariff and you'd still have the same result. He didn't need to build in a weakness. And again, like I already said...

If the original Death Star was purposely built with a reactor that was weak enough to go supernova from a small torpedo strike, why was the second Death Star built with the same weakness?

 

I don’t think the Empire ever found out what exactly the weakness was. Galen wasn’t around to get it tortured out of him.

 

If I have to tell myself that the entirety of the Empire are complete idiots just so a Disney Star Wars film can make sense, I'm simply not going to. I will not die on that hill.

 

The Death Star II isn't even taken down the same way. Galen's flaw was to make the reactor blow using the thermal exhaust to start a chain reaction, intended to be a weakness for the completed Death Star. DSII is taken down by the reactor just getting shot directly with a bunch of missiles since it was still in construction, a lot easier and no preemptive behind the scenes planning required

 

But originally the Death Stars blew up because torpedoes exploded against their reactors causing the reactors themselves to explode. It wasn't some flaw that was purposely built into the station by one of the engineers; it's just what happens. You see TIE Fighters explode all the time, yet you don't need an entire film explaining that some engineer built in a fatal flaw, it's just what happens.

But now we've introduced the concept that the first Death Star was purposely built with a weakened reactor from the get go. So now I have to tell myself that the Empire was stupid enough to think that putting a power regulator on the reactor in the DSII was a better "fix" than just using a reactor that doesn't explode from a proton torpedo blast? Again, I'm not going to die on that hill. ROTJ already had enough problems. I don't need John Knoll and Disney adding anymore.

 

it's all the Ewok's fault.

 

Dude, relax. It’s not a big deal (and certainly not anything anyone has to die on a hill for). But I think you’re missing an important point about why this is a very realistic scenario from even a real world R&D perspective.

Simply put, the problem can be easily explained in-universe. The Empire’s remaining scientists may simply have no idea that there’s a more stable and less vulnerable version of a DS reactor core that can be built with their current knowledge base (or even if that’s a goal, they don’t yet know how to achieve it).

Further, in the rush to get a DSII into operation (a compressed political schedule set by an impatient Emperor, not a reasonable research schedule set by scientists), they likely didn’t have the time or money to develop a more resilient reactor core. Galen developed the first reactor core, and the Empire knows it works, even if it has a vulnerability. And they likely just don’t know how to build a better one without spending many more years in an exploratory R&D phase. Galen was the central mind behind it, and he died. And they only have one blueprint to go on. Developing a new reactor may have taken decades, if they had to fumble around in the dark to find out how to build a core without the weakness of the first. This is actually very true to life throughout history. When scientific knowledge is lost, it’s not easy to regain. And when political schedules are set for scientific advancements, corners get cut and future-oriented R&D gets cut.

Galen took his knowledge with him to the grave, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to accept that the Empire wasn’t able to recover it to build a better reactor. This was brand new tech, after all.

There are often very reasonable explanations for perceived “plot holds” in Star Wars (often, not always). And this explanation works perfectly within the context of dialogue in the later films. “We shall redouble our efforts” says Jerjerrod as Vader communicates to him the Emperor’s displeasure with the slow pace of progress on DSII. He may as well have said “we’ll cease research on addressing the reactor vulnerability, and get the existing reactor into operation.”

This stuff is pretty real. It’s the GFFA version of Chernobyl, really. Cutting corners to please the political bosses (or to avoid getting terminated - permanently).

 

The thermal exhaust port doesn't start the chain reaction, it just gives the torpedo a way to reach the reactor. The torpedo hits the reactor which causes the reactor to explode which takes the entire station with it. There is even a video in the movie showing the torpedo going down the thermal exhaust tunnel, hitting the reactor, and exploding.

And thanks to ROGUE ONE you now need three paragraphs to explain an inconsistency that didn't exist beforehand. Thank you Disney™.

 

I didn’t need that many paragraphs. Just did that for you, man. Here’s the one paragraph version:

It’s the GFFA version of Chernobyl, really. Cutting corners to please the political bosses (or to avoid getting terminated - permanently).

Ultimately, though, since it’s such an excellent movie, why is this such a big deal? Especially when there’s a perfectly logical explanation or two?

 

This is a thread about complaints about the movie. This is one of my complaints. Is this not the thread to put it in?

 

I'll be honest. I'm not even entirely sure what my responses should be. If this were a thread about Jello and our complaints about Jello... And I said, "I don't like Lime Jello."... And his rebuttal was, "Well, you should."... What am I supposed to say? I'm not gonna change my mind. If I don't like Lime Jello then I don't like it.

 

Lime Jello is great because it’s not as tart as lemon jello, but less sweet than Cherry Jello. You really should give it another try.

In all seriousness, though, I think this is a little different in that I was directly responding to your problem with the logic of the deliberate reactor vulnerability, and the repetition of that weakness with the DSII, by describing what I think is a perfectly logical and true-to-life explanation. You don’t have to buy that logic, but I’m a person that likes to think that logic can actually inform - and sometimes, even change minds. And I respect people’s intelligence, including yours. I don’t simply assume total stubbornness. Which leads to...discussion.

Also, I’m on a mission to completely invalidate all complaints about Rogue One. No complaint is safe!

 

When RO first came out I loved it, but much like TFA I started to see the cracks after a while. TBH, by the time TLJ was released I had come to the realization that Disney/LFL had failed to impress me on any level and I haven't bothered to watch any of them in theaters. After all, why should Disney/LFL bother to make better films if I keep paying the price of admission. Gotta vote with my wallet.