The Official Republic Commando: True Colors Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Umm, you've really answered your own question. They create people, and treat them as product. That doesn't trip your "screwed-up morality" alert even a little? Doesn't make you think they're a tad heartless? If they treated people they hadn't created the way they did, treated them like slaves . . . would you still give them the thumbs-up? If you were created by these people and they treated you like product . . . wouldn't you maybe hate them just a little bit? They don't have to be out to get them -- they just don't care about their humanity at all. They make people and send them off to die. That's crime enough right there, right in AOTC.

 

That's right. It was both of them that went to cut up Ko Sai, right?

The closest thing to her take would be the section in the GGAR on Order 66. I'll try to find that for you.

 

....actually, thats the Jedi.
The Kaminoans were just contracted to make them. The buyer could do whatever they wanted with them. The Jedi chose to make them fight and die. Not the Kaminoans.

 

.................................Which I absolutely hate. Guh!

 

but, especially in Star Wars EU, it has to be based on something. "All Rodians are good at hunting" is the cliche I believe, because we saw a Rodian bounty hunter. All Anzati are creepy vampires because the guy in ANH looked like a creepy vampire. All female Twi'leks are sexy dancers because we saw two sexy female Twi'lek dancers. All Hutts are greedy mafia bosses because Jabba was Don Corleone.
But all Kaminoans are evil bloodsucking childmurderers because... in the movie a human Sith Lord exploits their "inhumane" practice for his own good and the nice lady is friendly to Jango's son and in the EU they are shown bringing children to safety? This is the first time I've really missed a step from "little more than a cameo" to "species cliché". I'm sure this has happened before with a few minor species in some throw-away mention but the entire freaking book (-series) is based on this! And if I don't get it, how am I gonna get my enjoyment out of them?

I'm so very glad you said all these things. Because pretty much all of it ties into the other half of my big problem I promised to rant about later.
Short answer: No. Not at all.
I might prove one of the bigger points KT was making in the HC books, especially this one, but I simply don't agree with the humanization of the Clone Army. I'd even call it overhumanization. It's not like the Kaminoans know what they're doing is wrong and they do it anyway. That'd trip my screwed-up morality alert. No, they're perfectly within their set of morals and obviously perfectly within their rights, too. They created a product and treat it as such. And aside from Skirata and anyone he convinced of it (really, who else had "oh no poor clonies" as an original thought of their own?) the galaxy had apparently long solved the moral dilemma of cloning in general, simply because it's a known practice and nobody so much as flinched when they heard there were clones, human or otherwise. The delicacy of clone ethics is a very Earthian concept. It wasn't a big deal for what's probably the most human character in Star Wars who lived in a time when cloning has apparently been largely banned in the galaxy: Luke. Clone Wars? Sure thing, Ben, no problems there.

So, again, where does that come from? It's something we would expect of ourselves. Of course, stories need to resonate with their readers, but asking the question is a lot different from hammering it into our brains for 2 and a half books.
Kaminoans aren't heartless. While Kal&Co hear cold arrogant deception in their melodic voices, I can't help but think Taun We did sound like she was slightly fond of Boba. And whoever worried about the clone children dying "or worse" in Defense of Kamino did came across as... well, worried ... and it was a Kaminoan. Kal'buir would turn it around into the setup that inevitably led to the "kill them all" order. An order that no Kaminoan actually ever gave. Right, except the one about the Nulls. Or so Kal says.
The question whether it'd be alright if it was normal people is moot. Because they aren't normal people. They are clones. Comissioned, paid for, bred and trained for one pur

 

Callous attitude toward soldiers in the United States? I haven't seen any "callousness" expressed by the American people as a whole--a few posturing politicians (*cough, Murtha, cough*), sure.

I don't know what the attitude is like in Britain, but I wouldn't characterize or attribute callousness as a descriptor of the U.S. attitude regarding its fighting men and women.

 

Callous as in either:

A) I support troops, I just don't want to be one.
or
B) I'm not really interested in their problems, it's their job.

Now I see way too much of that attitude in politicians (even from some that have served), and going by her opinions of the treatment of military, Traviss who is British, must see the same behavior in her neck of the world.

 

Agreed. Especially with how things are right now. The war has taken a backseat in the Media from what I've seen so far, almost like Besany describes the attitude towards the Clone Wars on Galactic Center. Out of sight out of mind. To me that is callous.

 

I don't think Kal evn had much to do with the clones evolving humanity (I'm leaving the Nulls of the table in this one). They may have called him Kal'buir, but in the end he was their sergeant who gave them a means to an end. They were aware not every sergeant was like Kal, but in the end, they all ended up with the same skills and the same lot in life.

I think, and it's shown pretty consistantly evolving in the three books, is that they entered the galaxy outside of Kamino as perfect soldiers, they had varied personalities but that tended to be linked to their specialty - but the outside world changed that.

They knew their was a galaxy beyond Tipoca City, but they had no exposure to it. It was once they entered the galaxy at large and saw what was denied them that they became humanized. They saw how the other half lived so to speak. It's no different than the evolution of Luke once he left the farm. When you spend 10, 15, 20 years leading life one way, then leave that environment, the change is inevitable.

 

Having just finished reading Republic Commando: True Colors, I felt a few questions were in order.

--What do you think happens to Jedi that are no longer Jedi? The Clones follow Order 66 and Order 66 says to kill any and all Jedi, but what does this mean for Jedi that have left the Order?

My Thoughts are that the Clones wouldn't do a thing to them because they are no longer Jedi, and since they aren't involved in the hierarchal ranks of the GAR and the Jedi any longer then the Clones will pay them no heed. Anyone else have anything?

--I can't recall there ever being a Mandalorian Force user. I think it would be really interesting to actually see one and to see how they are able to deal with the deep philosophy that comes with using the Force and the straight to the point nature of being a Mando. This randomly struck me while reading the book, but I thought it was worth mentioning, any thoughts?

 

I agree almost entirely, almost word-for-word with TwilekJedi.

 

By the very definition of the word the Clones are slaves, they have no choice behind their actions, they have no rights, they serve masters, they are slaves.

 

Isn't a prerequisite of being a slave having a free will?
Technically speaking, these clones shouldn't. The Kaminoans even stated that they didn't. Its only the EU (namely the RC novel) that has basically gone against G-Cannon.

 

Gimme a break. It's now real, so get used to it. If Lucasarts was against it, it wouldn't have been published. You couldn't exactly breed free will out of a human - or at least they would have kept it that way in the RC books if you could; you see what the Kaminoans have deducted from their experiences with the clones, and they kill off the ones with a will of their own: the ones who defect or go against orders. They only went as far as they could with pulling it out. And without free will, the clones wouldn't be human.

 

I agree; but they haven't mentioned any others, so I'm assuming they aren't there until I know otherwise.

 

They are human, the Kaminoans can say what they want, but programming free will out of a human isn't possible. They made them more docile and made them with a strict aversion to not following orders, but they still have free will. I could care less about canon levels they, they are completely pointless, I go by what I read and see, not levels.

 

What he said.

 

Yet again, my view exactly.

To lighten things up a little....HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!

 

So, what about the droids, hmm? When are we gonna get a novel (or any story) from the droids' POV?

 

In a word: never.
However, I do think this would be an interesting angle to explore, but only from the POV of a unit with more independance, say an OOM officer droid. So I would be open to a story like this.

PS: We really need a Tales from the Clone Wars anthology.

 

Define what is and what isn't possible in a universe/galaxy where a measurement for traveling speed is PARSECS (a measurement of distance), where there is repulsorlifts, and fires in space, etc, etc, etc.

They can clone and age humans. How do we deem that they can't edit out free will?

 

I loathe this stance. "Well, its in print. End.Of.Story." Its a justification on principles, not on actual merit of the argument. Thats like claiming we shouldn't debate what Bush does because he did it/didn't do it/will do it/will not do it.

Technically speaking, the RC novels goes against the G-Cannon of the films, in which the Kaminoans said they are bred for obedience and loyalty. [Thus the predecessor for how they will follow Order 66]. Taun We didn't say they were bred to be humans. They were bred to be clones, meat robots as their called.

 

Well, that's the thing-- we're told droids are on the whole dumb, brainless drones, but we're shown something else entirely. We've seen even the most generic soldier-droids exhibit signs of sentience, from child-like curiosity on up to complex, intelligent and unique personalities.

And, weirdly, no one ever comments on this, while much is made of the plight of the poor clones.

 

Exactly. Start with the two characters everyone truly knows.

R2-D2, C-3PO.

Would you claim their dumb, unsentient beings, worthless, mindless?