The Official Republic Commando: True Colors Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Hmm....must I?

Well, anyone who's tried probably wasn't Mandalorian. At the moment I have the inklings of a strategy that would work.

 

The only outcome of Palpatine vs. Mandalorians would be deep-fried Mando'ade.

Really, the Mandalorians should just accept what history tells them: They do best as the errand boys of whichever Sith Lord is in power. Best not to get ideas above their station!

 

Mando'ade contains enough vitamins and minerals to fully compensate for going up against the most powerful Force user ever, eh?

Good to know. It's a wonder that their entire culture is known for repeatedly losing over and over, then. I'm sure that was an accident and not just due to tremendous incompetence on their part.


Hilarious - not. Wait....wasn't the protagonist from KOTOR the most powerful?

What, pray tell, would you call the Battle of Mandalore, 29ABY, when the rest of the galaxy was struggling to take a breath, a tiny little breath, underneath the crushing blanket of the Yuuzhan Vong?

 

Would you like me to elaborate on my little plan?

 

I'd call the Battle of Mandalore a "small skirmish of absolutely no galactic importance", particularly since it occured when the Yuuzhan Vong were already exhausted by the losses they'd suffered against the New Republic.

If the Yuuzhan Vong had gone up against the Mandalorians right at the beginning....let's just say the Nom Anor would be boasting to the galaxy about their "Final Solution to the Mandalorian Problem".

Would you like me to elaborate on my little plan?

What plan might this be? Killing the most powerful Dark Lord in history with a Mandalorian? When has a Mandalorian ever been the match of a Dark Lord of the Sith?

It goes something like this:

Mando: Dirka, Dirka, Mando'ardi'bardi.

Sith Lord: [force-choke]

Mando: Oh damn, I'm dead.

 

No, I would like this pointless tangent to end.

 

Righto, Havac.

 

But that didn't happen, now did it? He used the Mandalorians against his enemies before turning on them when they got too dangerous - and then he got his butt smeared.

EDIT: sorry, Havac.

 

And here I thought this thread was supposed to be about the True Colors novel...silly me...


PadmeA, let me clarify something (for myself, anyway, I can't speak for anyone else)... What I was saying about it being printed had nothing to do with liking or not liking. I'm not one to say "Like Everything Or Get Out." If you don't like something, that's fine, and differing opinions is ok.

What I was talking about, specifically, is that folks say "why is such-and-such shown this way, because it never was before!" but it's not a valid argument because it's fiction. This means it truly is a fluid reality, and just because a thing hasn't been shown a certain way doesn't mean it CAN'T be that way, just means it hasn't been put to page yet.

The argument about canon levels has become worthless, because it just DOESN'T APPLY. Canon or not. That's it. The different levels are, as the military says, For Official Use Only, internal to LFL. Anything else is just guess-work. Besides that, there's the matter of the canon-rule I've see from LFL that says "If it's not directly contradicted by the films, then it's considered just as valid as the films." So, while everyone might not agree with the way the Kaminoans are portrayed in the EU now (RepCom and LotF books), I don' recall seeing anything in AotC that showed the Kaminoans reading bed-time stories, making hot chocolate and tucking the young clones into bed at night, so there's not a single thing contradictory in their portrayal now. Just because someone doesn't LIKE something doesn't make it 'less accurate.'

 

...Explain.
Explain how RC isn't making leaps and is just expanding what is shown in the movies.
Thank you.

 

I think this has less to do with clones than you think. In fact, I would say this is a perfect example of how clones are truly human. Take a look at the world ya know...if you went on a tour-bus full of your co-workers to NYC (assuming you don't live there, I guess), would you immediately go out and start talking to new folks, or would you stay in your little tour-group with familiar folks? How 'bout closer to home; if you go with a group of friends to the mall, do you all break up and go find new and unknown people to hang out with?

I served 3 years in the Army. I can tell you if you go to the mall in Augusta, GA, you'll see knots of soldiers hanging out together. It's not because they're anti-social, it's just that they go with a familiar crowd and that's who they hang out with. Again, familiar surroundings. I know I did it, and I certainly wasn't 'overwhelmed' by the mall or 'uncomfortable' with the world outside of the barracks.

It's a comfort issue, not a training, upbringing, or anything else. Humans are social animals, but also pack animals, and we tend to stay in groups that we've already established and are comfortable with.

To keep the thread a LITTLE on topic, the same is shown in TC. Omega's are more comfortable around Etain and Bardan than they are around other clones, even Kal's 'other' kids, the Nulls. This is because Etain and Bardan are familiar to them, and the Nulls - even though they're 'identical' clones, are much more of strangers.

 

If you mean the cold, cruel view from TRaviss' novels, that seems to follow logically. They were already a bit cold in AotC--the clones are referred to as untis and a product. They created an army of men to be disposable soldiers. I don't know how you can't get even a little bit of cruelty or coldness out of that.

What I don't understand, though, is why this is such a huge issue for you. Even if it is making leaps, that's happened al throughout the EU. Wedge Antilles is shown as just a fighter pilot in the movies. Him being a general and leading a commando mission in DE II is leaps from how he's portrayed in the movie. Lando Calrissian is the administrator of Cloud City and a gambler in the movies. How does that translate to an entrepreneur as he's shown in nearly every book following? The EU as a whole is making leaps to fill up the Star Wars galaxy with interesting stories.

The clones were uncomfortable, though, and probably were overwhelmed. Warfare is all they know. There are multiple cases where clones have said they would prefer their life in the GAR to the outside war, some in the RC books, and some not. While you make good points, I don't think they're really applicable to the clones.

 

This is the second Republic Commando book that I've given up on. They're just SO boring. All EVERYONE does is think how bad the clones have it (and I admit that they do) and I just can't get into a book where, if it were a movie, everyone would be speaking with the same voice.

 

Their CLONERS. They CLONE things. What the BUYER does with them is up to the BUYER not the CLONER. That would be akin to claiming a PENCIL MAKER should be held responsible for the coldness they view their pencils and the pencils owners/accidents when people die due to some kid stabbing another kid in the eye with a pencil.

If you built 500 computers, would you not refer to them as products and units?
If you built 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pencils, would you not refer to them as units or products?

I don't see how they are being cold or callous. They created these units, they are a producer. If anyone is cold and callous of this whole thing at all - it is 1)the Republic, 2)the Jedi.



The difference between the leaping here and the Wedge/Lando comparison, is that those are associable/appropriate/considerable jumps. "Fighter pilot -> Rogue Squadron Leader -> General" more sounds like progression than leaping.

"Products -> Hatred" Seems more like a leap for someone who produces cl

 

I don't think anyone has ever said the Kaminoans hate the clones (maybe I'm missing what you're saying here). I don't think they really had any feelings about them one way or another, and that, to me, is the crux of the issue. The Kaminoans don't give a damn one way or another, because they don't see them as living, breathing human beings, which they are, regardless of their origin.

This is the reason why, though the feelings are reciprocal, the clones are NOT fans of the Kaminoans. The would 'eliminate' the clones for no reason other than quality control. They didn't do it out of hatred or jealousy or anything, they did it without even CONSIDERING they might be eliminating another living being.

That's, to me, where the problems with the Kaminoans come from. They treat the living, feeling beings like exactly what they (the Kaminoans) think of them as - product, a mass-produced 'meat droid' as you said, and this is absolutely not what they are. If that's not a reason to hate someone, I have a damn hard time thinking of anything better....



-----
Let me add one other quick note: the Jedi treat the clones in much the same way, and, with a few exceptions, the clones seem to feel the same way about Jedi as they do about the Kaminoans. Maybe not to the same degree, or the same level of vehemence, but they do seem to feel used by the Jedi, so their not exactly going out for drinks after work, ya know?

 

The point we're all trying to make is that in the RC novels, Traviss has the clones/ARC/Nulls/whoever HATE the Kaminoans and liken them to evil.

I'm not saying that your saying that their evil. I'm saying that Karen says (through Omega/Delta/Kal/Vau/Nulls) that the Kaminoans are evil.

Which seems both of two things: 1) heavy-handed, 2)an illogical gap for some of these characters.

I also don't see the problem/moral issue some people are having with Kaminoans. They are not humans, thus are not bound to human philosophical/humanitarial issues such as "even though their Clones they are still humans with feelings".

 

Well, we're not gonna agree about the Kaminoans, but there's a very simple reason as to why the Nulls hate them. There were twelve Nulls originally, but six were "terminated" for "quality control". If that's not a good reason to hate someone, I don't know what is. And as a note, only the Nulls really hate them, the Nulls and Skirata.

 

Has then been any proof that the Mandalorian Sergent Rav Bralor is related to Bralor from KotOR 2?

I haven't found any proof yet I was just wondering if anyone else has.

 

It's possible, or Karen may have just used that as a kind of common name for Mandalorians. She knows a bit about the KOTOR games, though, with Ordo the Null being named after Canderous Ordo.

 

Actually, the books say that Kal's Krew thinks the Kaminoans are repugnant slime and don't serve any purpose other than fish-bait. Karen's not a character in the books, so her views are expressed...

If you want another example of this, almost everyone in the books talk about how great Kal is, how much he cares, how great of a father he is, yet the author, the one putting the words to the page, has stated before that Skirata is a very bad man and should not be looked upon as an ideal or as an example of how you should raise your kids.

It's a difference between personal feelings and those of the characters. If those two can't be separated, then you end up a fictionalized autobiography....

 

Alright thanks, I knew there was a colaboration because besides Karen herself the KotOR games gave us the most info about the Mandalorians