Books The Official TARKIN by James Luceno Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I agree with you on this. The "wars" part of Star Wars means Rebels vs. Empire, not Jedi vs. Sith.

 

Important line in Episode VII: "Begun, the Star Wars have."

 

We don't even know that Palpatine continued to think of himself as a Sith after ROTS. He might have decided that the Sith were obsolete now that he was Emperor.

 

Huh, I never considered that and it could be an explanation for why the word is never used in the OT.

If we look at this through a Banite lens it could go either way. On the one hand, Bane's whole project was to destroy the Jedi and gain control of the galaxy. With both of those goals basically accomplished Sidious moved beyond the aims of Bane. On the other hand, Sidious retained the power structure of the Sith, keeping Vader as an apprentice while still searching for someone who could transcend Sidious himself as the ultimate dark side user.

Tarkin should give us an idea of how the legacy of the Sith is presented publicly (if a all), while Lords of the Sith (and maybe the Vader comic) will give us an idea of how Sidious actually planned for it to work going forward.

 

Yeah, we currently have no idea what the state of things will be until we get some NEU material. We're in limbo at the moment, as it could go in any direction.

It's a bit like female officers and aliens... there's signs those elements of the Empire probably will remain, but... there's also signs that we'll probably see more females than we did in the past, as there's already that new officer in addition to Daala, so the "Empire of white male dudes" that we saw a lot of in the 80s and 90s is unlikely to be as much the case.

And when it comes to the Inquisitor... I don't remember when we first started having things like that in the EU? Did Marvel do anything like that other than Lumiya, or was it much later when we started seeing dark side adepts springing up everywhere?

 

I searched Sith in the databank and eventually found this under the Episode VI section. I don't take its designation as canon all that seriously, but maybe we can still glean something from it. emphasis mine:

At this point the evidence seems to be in favor of Sidious continuing to consider himself a Sith. However, the whole article has an inclusionist definition of Sith, including even Savage Oppress. So maybe they are just being sloppy.

 

Well, is there anything that "stops" Savage being a Sith nowadays...?

They might loosen the term up more, the same as how "Jedi" hasn't always meant you need to literally be anointed by Yoda as his official Padawan.

 

They are insisting that the Inquisitor isn't a Sith, so I thought they moving towards a more stringent Banite definition of the term.

 

I'm currently fairly skeptical about the Inquisitor... as they said the exact same things about Starkiller-- and it was to appease EU fans, not because of the realities of the way the story appeared to 99% of the people who played the game.

Likewise, it stands to be seen what actually happens in the show itself. If Vader smacks people down for thinking the Inquisitor is Sith? Cool. If not? 90% of kids watching it are going to think he's a Sith, and over time, that mentality will take root, and... well, that's how these things happen.

That's my point.

Nobody has ever questioned a Jedi being a Jedi just because they weren't approved by the Council or went through an official ceremony or anything like that, so why do people feel Savage can't be a Sith these days, now that all the Sith dogma that was in all the Bane books and KOTOR and stuff is no longer canon?

 

I was under the impression that Savage is a Sith because he was Maul's apprentice. The movies by themselves give the impression that the definition of "a Sith" is someone who's part of the unbroken lineage that began with Ruin and ended with Palps and Vader.

 

Maul and Savage were effectively pretenders to the Baneite Sith, with Maul getting delusions of grandeur and deciding that he was the Sith Master despite Sidious and Tyranus existing.

 

They stuck to their word with Starkiller. I've never heard Starkiller referred to as a Sith.

99% percent of the people who played the game think that "Sith" is Palpatine's race.

 

I like that, though. Maul basically said "He betrayed me, and thus our legacy" and decided he was the boss now. Definitely delusions of grandeur, but delusions of grandeur that make sense, at least.

 

I agree completely. But they were definitely delusions, as that "fight" on Mandalore proved. I like the idea of rival Master-Apprentice pairs that each think they're the true Sith.

 

I do too. I wonder if it's happened before.

 

If we go by the old EU, where Dark Lord The Rise of Darth Vader is canon, he most certainly does consider himself a Sith after ROTS, as he stills follows the teachings and beliefs of it. However later works imply that he eventually moved beyond the concept of the Sith, an idea which correlates with Plagueis, who himself was coming to a similar conclusion; that as the Grand Plan reached completion, the purpose of Bane's Sith was complete and it was time for a new Order/Rule to rise. I think Lucas at least always considered Palpatine a Sith though, or as a part of that Order, which is why his "death" at Endor tied into returning balance to the Force and all that jazz.

In terms of Savage I don't see why we can't count him as a Sith. He was trained by Maul, who was himself only ever trained as a Sith, and as of the old EU had completed his training, with the only thing being left for him to do was killing Sidious and taking his place as Master. Whoever he chooses to take as an Apprentice should be recognized as a Sith in my book; at least until more is revealed on the workings of the Sith in the New continuity.

 

I've always loved the idea that at some point in between ROTS and ANH, the Empire replaced the Sith as the greatest evil in the GFFA.

 

The Empire isn't evil, it's just all those evil Imperials. And there are so many of them because they are practical to use, being from a big galaxy-wide faction. Earlier in the timeline separatists and Dark Side users serve the same function.

 

http://www.randomhouse.com/book/7871/tarkin-star-wars-by-james-luceno

So you're saying, like, there is no dark side?

 

I'm just going to sit here drooling until this comes out.

 

Interesting plot blurb, it sounds like in NEU the Separatist holdouts will be a much bigger part during the Dark Times era, almost making the "Galactic Civil War" something that has never ceased since AOTC-- with it being more like a "three sided" conflict, with the Alliance to Restore the Republic not just battling the Empire, but the Separatists who don't want any central power.