The Official The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance discussion thread (spoilers allowed)

Hmm. Just some thoughts. I'm 4 or so chapters in and I'm enjoying it so far. It really isn't composed the way TFU was. One thing I'm noticing is that I'm referring to Wookipedia and the TOR site more for this book in 4 chapters than any referencing since I got into the EU. It took me by surprise that Satele Shan is Grand Master. I'm looking up planets like Dromund Kaas(forgot it from LS&tSoM) and trying to remember if Tython was even particularly habitable. Not that cross referencing is bothering me. I just never get the feeling I'm truly getting my hands around the era. I should have paid more attention to the online comic. One thing is for sure. I would be way more clued out if you plopped me down in front of Fatal Alliance with no idea what TOR was going to be and already is. Not that I'm blaming Williams. As I said, it's interesting so far. They're calling this a prequel book of sorts but clearly loads and loads of stuff has already gone on before this book begins.


Back to it then...

 

That would make total sense if this was written completely for the "usual" EU audience, but the book was written as a tie-in to the TOR video game. So, yes, it happens during the Republic period, but it the reason this book exists is because of the incoming TOR game market.

 

think i'll wait for the PB.

still banging my head as to why they would start exploring two different conflicts with the Sith Empire that are almost a thousand years apart, at the same time. if i wasn't such a Lit fan i'd be really confused.

 

I agree. I find the Knight Errant and Old Republic series' as odd choices. They seem so similar (conceptually, since we haven't seen KN).

For the first time in years, I didn't get the new SW book on release day. I'm holding off on TOR until the comic is out in TPB. Then I'll read everything in order.

 

...

I'm sorry, what?

I would have thought it went without saying that 4800 BBY was about 800 years before the War with Exar Kun.

 

I am saying I prefer solid evidence of actual works over shudder "Sourcebook" or "Guides" regardless of whether they support or refute my views. Don't like em' don't trust them. Especialy after that "Jedi vs Sith" dark side hand book.

 

4800 bby does sound about right.

here is a excerpt from wookiepedia

It seems the Dark Lords of the Sith Empire were ultimately responsible for the advancement of lightsabers, replacing the belt-mounted power pack with a power cell within the hilt. An internal superconductor was introduced, which transferred the returning looped energy from the negative-charged flux aperture back into an internal power cell. With this modification, the power cell would only expend power when the energy loop was broken, such as when the lightsaber cut something, solving the power supply problem. According to the Tedryn Holocron, the Sith also created the schematics for the first Double-bladed lightsabers.[3][4] Wielders of these original modern lightsabers include Karness Muur, a Dark Jedi who had wielded an archaic lightsaber, but later switched to a curve-hilted modern lightsaber.[5]. The Sith crew of the Omen were also equipped with modern lightsabers.[6]

Muur also appears to have been one of the Sith Lords to establish the tradition of wielding lightsabers with synthetic lightsaber crystals, which was maintained until its resurgence in 3,653 BBY. However, this tradition was disregarded by Exar Kun during his reign, as he and his followers opted instead to continue using their Jedi lightsabers in combat, though at least one follower used a lightsaber with a red crystal. However, this tradition was reestablished by the Sith acolyte Haazen and the Dark Lords Revan and Malak.

Despite the advancements in lightsaber technology apparently pioneered by the Sith, most Dark Lords of the era spurned the use of lightsabers in favor of Sith swords.[4]
Adoption by the Jedi
Jedi wielding modern lightsabers during the Naddist revolt.

With Naga Sadow's invasion of the Republic in 5,000 BBY and the subsequent start of the Great Hyperspace War,[4] the technological innovations pioneered by the Sith Empire were brought to the Republic and the Jedi. However, the majority of Sith forces held to the use of Sith swords, while the Jedi continued to use the protosabers, as they had not yet had time to adapt and implement these new designs. With the Sith defeat at the end of the war, modern lightsabers were adopted by the Jedi order. By 4,800 BBY, they were almost universally utilized by Jedi.

During the Great Sith War, Jedi converts who flocked to Exar Kun continued using their Jedi lightsabers, disregarding the tradition lain down by the original Sith Empire. However, other innovations entered their ranks, with Kun modifying his lightsaber into a double-bladed lightsaber, using schematics from a Sith holocron.[3] While Exar Kun's insurrection ultimately failed, he did introduce the double-bladed lightsaber to the Jedi, and it began to see relatively widespread use during the period leading up to the Jedi Civil War.
Jedi Civil War

 

Just picked it up at my Walmart. After I'm done reading Star Wars: Cloak Of Deception, going to start reading it.

 

The book has good, bad, and questionable points. Ones I'd like to share.

The Good

+ The book clocks in at 417 pages. I'd like to say, thank God. I'm sick of books that don't give you your money's worth. The book has a lot of characters, a lot of scenes, and a lot of plotline to burn. The epilogue may be a little more extended than necessary but it's not a bad book by any stretch of the imagination. I applaud them giving us a "meaty" book for a change.

+ The Sith are monsters. I kept imagining every scene with them taking place on planets like Mustafar. They're pretty much pure evil without a single redeeming quality to them. For a man who appreciates his escapism, it's nice to see the bad guys acting EVIL.

These Sith would eat the Lost Tribe for breakfast.

+ The Jedi and Republic are GOOD guys with a capital G. It's sort of like that situation on Manaan where you suddenly found yourself surrounded by Republic soldiers and they're cheerful, pleasant, and cool guys right next to the Nazi Sith Troopers. It made an excellent contrast between them. You'd have to be nuts to think the Jedi are bad people.

Ironically, there's a lot of distrust for them in this era but a lot of respect for them too. It makes it more interesting.

+ The Mandalorians aren't allied with the Sith anymore. In fact, they're belligerant and even hostile.

+ Combat is decent.

+ It's very much a Star Trek-esque threat but it's interesting and new.

The Neutral

+ I think this is where being a World of Warcraft fan has seriously shot me in the foot. Everything in the MMORPG feels rather startingly unnervingly familiar. Satele Shan eeriely reminded me of Jaina Proudmoore.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, except she reminded me of Jaina Proudmoore even more I started making comparisons between the book and WOW. She's a young, proud, female, magic-using Faction Leader who is doing her absolute best to be cheery and happy in an environment of near total desolation. She's also very hands on but not so much that it distracts from the main characters of the book. I'm already ready for people to start shipping her with Thrall, Kel'thas, and Arthas, or their PCs.

The Bad

+ It's just that almost every other character falls over themselves talking about how the "Empire" has the same moral authority as the Republic. Given the Empire steals babies, is ruled by psychopaths, has an immortal God-King, and appears to be a police state; I'm not sure what the Hell anyone is talking about. The most questionable thing the Republic does is use privateers against Imperial shipping. It seems pretty clear that the Empire is a bad place and the people who rule it are bad. Yet, at least one non-insane character thinks that the Empire is a superior group to the Republic.

Likewise, the Jedi Knights and Sith get confused. A lot. No one seems to be able to tell the difference between Jedi and Sith. That's almost understandable when you're dealing with the Jedi Civil and Jacen Solo. They were, after all, ex-Jedi. However, this conflicts has been going on decades and the Jedi Knights are shining beacons of heroism while the Sith are treated as monstrous creatures straight from the Inferno. Are people in the galaxy just terminally stupid?

+ Then there's the issue of the Tech level. I accept that the Old Republic is just as advanced as the Star Wars Prequel Era. There's a thousand year Dark Age ticked off by Darth Ruin, so I have no problem with technology regressing. However, the droids in the book are nanotechnological machines far and beyond what ANYTHING has been described as possible in the Star Wars universe. Seriously, a rogue not-particularly described as brilliant Sith droid maker creates a weapon that can conquer the galaxy in ten years. This isn't even some leftover Celestial technology, she just does it with some buddies. It strains credibility.

+ The duplicitous scumbag of a traitor assisting the Sith in taking over the galaxy ends up with the beautiful Kiffu girl instead of the heroic Jedi.

 

This. I would have had less of an issue if they had made it feel more like something done by forgotten Sith alchemy or the like.

EDIT: Looking over it a bit more, I think they should have also done more at the start to make things a mystery. The question of "What was on the Cinzia?" and "Who is Lema Xandret?" last about two chapters before Chratis takes Ax to the birth archives and lays it all out.

 

These are my only two points of disagreement with your review. I think the only characters that were really obsessed with the Empire being a superior entity were Ula Vii and the other strictly Imperial-aligned characters. The Sith thought so for obvious reasons, but I think Vii supported a more "nuanced" Empire, if you will - he wanted the rule of law, clearcut authority, and no ambiguity. He harbored a certain dislike and distrust for the Sith. I think he was aware the Empire was a pretty bad entity and wanted to extract what he perceived to be its best elements - that's why he eventually wanted to end up working for the Empire - to effect change from the inside. This is the core of his character at the end of the book - he doesn't know exactly who he wants to be or what "side" he wants to end up on, and is working through the emotions of figuring out his role in the galaxy. That's not to say he's strictly a "good" guy, but I think he's going to end up trying to see if he can somehow play both sides to his advantage and advance what he perceives to be the best agenda. Finally, I would just say that we should probably wait for subsequent books before finding out whether or not Ula "gets" the girl - the book ends with her mentally deciding to look him up when she gets back, and leaves on that note. A lot's going to happen between the end of FA and the following books.

 

I have just finished Star Wars, ?The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance?.

Right off the bat I give it an 8 out of 10 even though I don?t consider it a ?Must read?.

Let us be truthful , this is a tie in to the new MMORPG, and it is not bashful about it. The mechanics of the game hold true for the Mechanics of the book. Dark Council, Hutta and not ?Nal Hutta? Yes an Dao Stryver looks into the tantooien sky and wishes someone luck while staring at its sun.

Hellfire and damnation so unforgivable (Sarcasm)

There are six ?main? characters, each reflect the six classes, even though it?s not apparently reflected in their titles. But the characters are all nuanced in one way or another.

Eldon Ax, is the sith Apprentice. And she is bad news, But she also grows the most, far more drastically than her Jedi counterpart in Shigar Konshi . Her relationship with her master is Abusive but the way it is abusive and how that abuse parallels with what her relationship with her mother might have been, makes it more than the standard Master-Apprentice relationship.

There is a scene in the book where she wonders if ?Darth Chratis? is her father (We never enter his perspective, or Satele Shan?s) but there is a twisted realization that if he was it would make no difference.
Because his twisted abusive possessiveness of her, he might as well be.

This book dose more for the sith than it does for the Jedi I feel. Going into Eldon?s mindset, and character path, It is enlightening .
Her interaction with Konshi is as well, Especially when she treats his apparent disgust with her sith mentality like a high school girl treats a compliment from a boy she happens to like.

The POV Characters play of each other well.

Shigar Konshi (Force using /Republic)[Jedi knight class]

Larin Moxla (Non force using/ Republic) [Republic trooper class]

Eldon Ax (Force using/ Empire) [Sith Warrior class]

Ula Vii (non force using/ Empire) [Imperial Agent class] or close to it

Dao Stryver ( Neutral/ semi evil) [Bounty Hunter]

Jet Nebula (neutral/ semi good) [Smuggler]

And the 2 master representing Jedi Consular and Sith Inquisitor respectfully, but as stated before we never see their pov.

? As stated before this book does a lot for the sith. Especially after the Fiasco of Darth Ceadus and the relatively unremarkable Kerishi Sith. You get the feeling that Darth Chratis alone would send ?Evil? jacen running back to Leia?s bosom , and scare the Kereshi all the way back to their home world.

? Both he and Ax come off as such unremitting badasses it is rather refreshing, evil and ambitious without stupidity, being arrogant without being moronic. If they are holding the Idiot ball, I don?t see it.


This book, I don?t feel it is a ?Must Have?, It?s not Traitor, or Crosscurrent that just surprises the hell out of you. It?s not a Lynchpin like Star By Star, or an Exploration of an less deep telling like ?Revenge of the Sith.?


But the entertainment value is high, the ?Antagonists? don?t act like they set out to loose, Characters behave with common sense. Frankly I would recommend this book over all of Legacy of the force? and ?Fate of the Jedi?


8 out of 10.

 

Shigar Konshi is a character I have mixed feelings on. Privately, I was kind of annoyed by the fact he turned Larin down even though they did a decent job of:

1. Establishing it's mostly because he didn't look at her that way and not because he's a Jedi.
2. It's a nice subversion of the typical, "I've fallen in love with a random girl and am questioning my role as a Jedi."

I also felt his final decision in the book came a bit out of left field.

 

yes Shigar was not the most dynamic young Jedi I have read about. His character path was dealing with his insecurities, but the Shigar/Larin was odd. he didn't catch on to Larins budding attraction to him, nor did her get Ax's attraction to him. I guess his personality was romanticly oblivious.

 

Yeah, in many ways, I think this book suffered for its lack of a Satele and Darth POV. The book was overloaded with them to begin with but I'd love to get their "big person" view of the war.

 

I feel the Book had the maximum amount of views it could have While Sean Williams could keep it all straight, and as fleshed out as he did. I didn't do a paragraph count, but it seemed like each "Non-Master" character got an good amount of time to display what they were essentially about.

Though I would like to see a Satale Shan book in the future, for a web comic "threat of Peace" was well enough. But a deeper look into her character would be nice.

I also believe not knowing what was going on in Darth Chratis head was essential to getting Eldon Ax's point of view.

 

I finished this the other day. Interesting read, I definitely felt the Sean Williams mysticism in this novel, much like some of his other short stories. Overall, it was a great use of characters, although I felt that Shigar was probably the weakest link out of the POV characters. He's a padawan, so it's not too surprising that we had to put up with a bunch of teenage angst, wounded pride, temper flares and general whininess, but a couple of times he seemed to be transcending that typical 'Jedi padawan template'. The scene where he divines the history of Sebaddon from the hex piece was actually pretty cool. His decision at the end sort of felt out of place, though, but it also seemed like Williams might have been trying to set up another plot with that. He mentioned that other Jedi Knights were growing restless and wanted to make a pre-emptive strike against the Sith, and even one of the Council members seemed to favor that action as well.

I'm just glad Williams didn't decide to play master shipper and pair Shigar and Eldon Ax up, then cram their angsty teenage attraction down our throats for 300 pages. I've had enough of that for one lifetime, thank you...

I actually found myself feeling sympathetic toward Ula Vii. Williams makes no attempt to hide the fact that Vii is cowardly and a duplicitous traitor. He's got perpetual bad luck and always seems to be losing, even when it appears he's winning, or gaining the upper hand. I guess what ultimately warmed me up to him was the fact that he knew that a Sith-controlled galaxy would be dangerous and unpredictable, but that he thought it was the only way to bring about the type of government he believed the galaxy sorely needed at that particular point (and I couldn't disagree with him). He believed in a strong government and a galaxy where law and order prevailed above all else. He even tells the Minister openly that he doesn't want the galaxy to be controlled by fanatics - Jedi or Sith - and comes pretty close to betraying the Emperor in order to bring about this change. Vii wasn't like the rest of the non-Force sensitive Imperials, clamoring and spilling lakes of blood just for an opportunity to grovel at the feet of the Dark Council and the rest of the Sith. I was disappointed by his decision at the end, because I initially thought it was a step backward, but when I considered the fact that the Minister probably would have ended up betraying him anyway, it made more sense. It was definitely the smartest move for him.

I also kept thinking that Vii might have fit in well in Palpatine's Empire. Even though it was ruled by a Sith, a lot of Vii's beliefs seemed to fall in line with how the galaxy was run during this time period. A firm sense of military and order with a firm, decisive (and ruthless) leader. It would have been nice to see Vii try his hand in the Imperial court.

"Jet Nebula" didn't much impress me until the end. I don't know why it seems like every SW novel needs to include a Han Solo-type character. They're all pretty much the same anyway, but I was content that Williams decided to go a different route with this character at the end. Nebula was able to outsmart Stryver (who seemed slightly overrated, BTW) when both Shigar and Ax combined couldn't defeat him. It would have been nice to see Shan or Chratis kick Stryver's Mando behind around for a little bit.

 

He possibly comes to want these things (maybe) but he didn't at the beginning of the novel. He may have grown into these ideals. That's fine but Vii ends up with the girl and that was kind of nuts. He's been a rat plain and simple and he gets a girl that I don't would respect him if she knew him. Course I don't believe people change as much as Vii did in as short a time as Vii did. Then again he still hadn't chosen sides by the end. Larin had from the beginning.

 

I actually think that thinking of him as Gaius Baltar INCREASES my respect of him.

That's bad.

 

Lol. I'm thinking of Gaius in the first two seasons if that helps any.

 

I think the interesting point about Uli Vii is that he is like apparently some Light Side (including non- Force sensitive) Imperial characters players can play in the game, trying to do damage to their government from inside. That's not in the cards for Republic characters as far as I know. So, he could be like a mirror image to a "real" game Imperial Agent players might end up playing.

Based on what I have read about him so far, he seems rather naive, or perhaps I should say terribly naive. What I'm thinking is that there's probably a lot of "law, order and discipline and no Force sensitives" -societies among Republic's member planets, and he could live happily ever after on one of them. But he wants change on a galactic level, is ready to betray Republic for Empire - the only other "civilizing force" in the galaxy - at the same time as he wants to change the Empire. And there he is vastly too ambitious for a man of his nature.

 

Y'know, I quite like what I'm hearing. I've gone from wavering to almost certainly picking this up.

I was responding to your first sentence, not your second.

"Go to your local Bookstore and pop open the trade Paperback of the War with Exar Kun and point out one lightasber with one cord" is a ridiculous thing to say in response to someone claiming that cordless lightsabers were invented in 4,800 BBY, regardless of your opinion regarding sources.

 

I finished it last night. I wasn't sure about it to begin with as I haven't really followed any of the Old Republic comics but I enjoyed it. I wouldn't mind seeing more of 'Jet Nebula' and his droid - I liked them. Darth Chratis was a pretty good Sith as well.

 

Finally finished this the other night. I found myself forcing my way through parts of it. Even the exciting parts weren't enough to keep my glued to my seat, with anticipation for the next chapter.

It wasn't a bad novel, but it wasn't a very exciting one, either. The characters were bland. I felt nothing for any of the main POV characters, and the enemy was kind of ... meh.

Ironically enough, the only characters I enjoyed were the Mandalorian and Jet Nebula. And their stories only got really interesting during the epilogue. The Jedi/Sith characters were just 2D characters with nothing appealing about them.

 

I am confused about the timeline. Is this story before or after Zayne Carrick's story?