"The oppression of the Sith will never return"

I'm wondering....
did the Senate and the general public know the now "Emperor" Palpatine was a Sith?
If so wouldn't they have not been so cheery about him declaring himself Emperor of the Galaxy, and wouldn't EVERYONE have joined together to rebel against that?
I mean if the Sith had been so oppressive in the past, even if it was a thousand years ago, wouldn't it be in the history books, wouldn't it be common knowledge?

So let's say that only the Imperials knew that Palpatine was a Sith or a "wizard" or whatever they thought about it.
By the time Darth Vader joined him as second in command it must've been obvious that he was one, since unlike the Emperor he flaunted around his lightsaber, a weapon exclusive to Jedi/Sith, and he wasn't shy about using his supernatural abilities (Force-choking).
Or let's say they thought he was a Jedi because of the lightsaber, weren't the Jedi supposed to be public enemy #1 and "hunted down"?

I guess I'm just wondering how well-known it was that their Lord and Emperor were both Sith, and if it was known, why people didn't have more of a problem with it.

 

The answer lies in Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four - "those who control the future controls the present; those who control the present control the past" - you basically make history if you have absolute control. Sideous was in a position to make history and thus make people believe him. The Jedi with their historical archives were gone - who was going to stand up to him (and not die as a consequence)?

Good thread

 

It was known only to a few.

 

thanx

just thinking of the whole "this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause" bit

do you think the Senate was just naive or do you think they were just sort of kissing his butt to get on his good side and to not oppose him? Because at least some of the Senate knew he was corrupt.

 

If the galactic senate is anything like the U.S senate, they are all too busy pushing there own small agendas, and lining there own pockets to see any larger picture. Let alone a larger good/evil scenario.

 

The Senate was mainly applauding him because he made it seem like he was the victim, the good guy, and that the Jedi were the ones who were corrupt.

Plus, keep in mind, Palpataine has the power to brainwash people and the propagandha he spews out kept them all rooting for him throughout the CW. I'm not exactly sure if the Senate and the Republic knew if he was a sith lord, but they sure did during the OT. Palpataine explains his mutated appearance as a scar left by the jedi, so they just suspect that he is the same old politican just mangled because of the 'evil jedi'. However, in the OT they had to have put two and two together, because Darth Vader runs around as the declared Dark lord of the Sith, so what would that make his master? The Imperial ranks all know of the Emporer's power, so I'm sure the word would've got out.

 

Right. The Senate had no idea he was a Sith. If the Senate knew, then the Jedi would too, and then the Jedi wouldn't have been asking "I sense a Sith in the Senate. Who the flip is it??" all the time. They'd know. Palpatine just made it look like he was a good guy. And nobody could tell what they knew, that Palpatine was a Sith, because only Windu, Tin, Fisto, Kolar, and Anakin knew he was a Sith. And Kolar, Fisto, Windu, and Tin all got crapped. Anakin wouldn't tell anyone that Palpy's a Sith. He'd wreck Palpy's scheme, and ther senate would likely know the truth, but still, most of the Senate don't know SQUAT about Sith, Jedi, the Force, or anything, so they wouldn't believe the Jedi when they say that Palps is evil.

 

Well, ya gotta remember that it was the darn pesky, evil Separatists that were waging war and performing acts of terrorism on the Republic for all those years, and that nice old man Palpatine was protecting the populace. No one but the Jedi suspected anything was afoot. To the people, Palpatine was a savior of sorts. Why would he ever do anything to betray the trust of his people? He had their trust... not to mention the emergency powers (Thanks Jar-Jar) to finally put an end to the war. Then... the assassination attempt by the corrupt Jedi. In all that chaos, it wouldn't have been difficult to still stay under the radar as a Sith Lord, and sheesh.. even slip that whole "Galactic Empire" thing past everyone.

He had the sympathy, the peoples' hearts and minds, and then the Force to keep hidden from the populace.

As I write this, I also think of Tarkin in ANH. I think his referring to the Jedi and the Force as that "old religion" when speaking to Vader kinda signifies what most people thought of Force users. It wasn't something many people understood... or possibly even cared about. Han Solo was a doubter as well. He didn't really get it, much less care about it, so you could extrapolate that to the populace, and the Senate before its dissolution. People were either ignorant to it, or just didn't care.

As time went on... as the new "Empire" began to gain steam after the re-organization from the Republic, people would have had to have seen the corruption of government, and the tryanny... but not necessarilly attributed it to the fact that Palpatine was a Sith Lord.

 

wow, you guys have some really good points, thanx for clearing that up for me

 

Agreed.

And you're welcome Luke_SW.

 

I agree with this statement, considering that I am finishing up 1984 right now. No one really cared if Vader was a Sith because he was the face of the Empire and all its operations (how would they know if he had the ability of using the Force or was just some guy who acts really well?). They would not care because no one would believe that a Jedi was still alive, although he is a Sith at that point.

 

I would say by the time Sidious became Chancellor he pretty much had the whole senate in his pocket. They probably were on his payroll and could really careless about what he did. To be fair in a way, nothing the emperor ever did really affected the upper-class and the efficiency was probably good for business. Even if they knew he was a Sith, they couldn't do anything about it and as it didn't directly affect them I don't think they cared.

 

Only a select few of Palpatine's closest aids, like Mas Amedda, knew he was a Sith. Nobody else knew (and survived) except Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda.

In Episode IV, Tarkin tells Vader that he's all that remains of the Jedi religion. If you take that at face value, it could mean that even Tarkin (whom outranked Vader) did not know that Palpatine was a Sith, and considered Vader to be a Jedi. Vader was allowed to go about carrying his lightsaber and what not because he did "not betray the Republic." The clones were under orders to kill all the "rebellious" Jedi, yet they followed Anakin as their commander when attacking the Jedi Temple. Anakin was an exception. Yes, he was a Jedi, but he was a "good" Jedi, as he was not involved in the "rebellion" that Palpatine insisted was under way.

And no, I do not believe the Senate was kissing Palpatine's butt. Remember the lie that Palpatine told Anakin, "Once the Jedi learn what has transpired here they will kill us, along with all the senators."

The Senate was kept intact (until Episode IV), recall that Obi-Wan told Bail Organa that it was unlikely that Palpatine could maintain control over all the planets in the Republic without keeping the senate happy. Palpatine thus could lie to the Senate and convince them that a centralized Empire was in their best interest. He could convince the senators that the Jedi were a threat to them, and that by increasing security under his new empire the senators would have nothing to fear.

 

Doesn't speak much for the Senate then, they must of been fairly dumb for thousands of people to not be able to figure out what really happened. Palapatine was not really telling a lie in my opinion either. At least for the Jedi, they would have killed them. Not sure about the Senate but you can bet the Jedi would attempt to kill Palpatine and Anakin after they found out what happened with Mace.

 

Anakin would probably have been imprisoned if possible.

 

I agree with Fenn. If possible I think the Jedi would have captured Anakin alive however I do believe they would have killed Palpatine.

 

Are you sure the Jedi would have wanted Anakin alive? I know Obi-Wan might have being that he was his master, but I can't see the rest of the Order agreeing. Yoda didn't tell Obi-Wan to kill or capture Anakin, he simply said to kill. Add to that the fact Yoda thought Anakin was lost and he probably would have been on the same execution block as Palpatine.

 

I think under the circumstances they would have killed Anakin too, why imprison him? I doubt he would ever be a Jedi again. Not really that he was beyond forgiveness but say he came around would he be able to function knowing what he had done? I doubt the order would except him at that point anyway, he essentially killed the second in command.

 

Coming from a country that was ruled by a Palpatinesque individual (Alberto Fujimori in case you're wondering), I can tell you that a large portion of the population will tolerate or even defend whatever atrocity the government does in times of violence as long as they aren't victimized. Even in the face of evidence they will believe whatever defense the leader comes up to.

 

Coming from a country that was ruled by a Palpatinesque individual (Dick Cheney in case you're wondering), I can tell you that a large portion of the population will tolerate or even defend whatever atrocity the government does in times of violence as long as they aren't victimized. Even in the face of evidence they will believe whatever defense the leader comes up to.