PT The reaction to the Rogue One Vader scene is exactly what Lucas wanted to avoid in ROTS

Thanks. I don't think I'd do it justice as the OP. Somebody like Cryogenic would do much better to get it off on the right foot. I'd screw up the execution because I don't consider myself even close to competent on the subject matter. However, I'd love to have a thread that concentrates on that. I'd probably be more of an avid watcher than contributor.

 

The Rogue One scene being discussed was appropriate for the post-PT era it was set in I think. Yes, maybe it was a little obviously fan-service, but I have no problem with this when done in good taste.
I have only seen the movie once, but I think it did the series justice. I think looking at it through the eyes of PT fans that have got a raw deal in terms of the Disney marketing, we can tend to be cynical in retaliation. I am reserving judgement until episode 8.

 

I loved how Vader’s skills were depicted in Rogue One. They were very consistent with the OT.

 

Star Wars fans that grew up with the OT never wanted to see Vader as a human being with feelings, they wanted the cool badass, the dude who choke/kill people randomly.

LF had to please them, so during the reshoots they made this hallway scene that everybody is prasing like the greatest thing ever.
mission accomplished I guess ✓

But I doubt that scene was in Gareths original vision before Tony Gilroy took over for the reshoots.

The biggest joke is always when some id**ts say "this is the darth vader I know, not that NOOOO dude/parody at the end of RotS".
What they dont get or dont want to understand is that R1 takes place 20 years after RotS and that even tho Ani is in the suit hes still the same broken man he was before.

edit :I have to admit the "Nooo" is cheesy as hell, but its cleary a homage to Frankenstein, which is one of Lucas favorite movies.

 

RotS Noooo was cheesy. RotJ Noooo was blasphemy.

This isn't A v. B. Wanting to see the powerful Vader thought to be beyond saving is not going against Lucas' vision. Where else did we get the idea that pre-Luke, that is what Vader was if not from Lucas. The PT showed the fall. The OT showed the conflict and redemption. Showing the pre-conflict Vader was the only thing not fully presented on the big screen. Why have Act 1 and Act 3 and then pretend Act 2 never existed?

 

Like Rogue One and The Force Awakens the merging of both the PT and OT styles into a saga hybrid style certainly is what they are going for.

Obviously after seeing the PT one could wonder why we never saw that side of Vader in the OT? Then seeing what Anakin could do surely Vader could do similar?

So now he finally has in live-action.

Far later actually as gone over earlier. It was really the R1 editor who came up and pitched it. No Edwards or Gilroy. So save for him the scene would not exist.

 

ROTS and ROTJ Nooooo mirror each other as the Anakin last/first word during these 20 years. But yeah, as usual this thread began with very particular topic: the opposion ROTS/R1 regarding one particular scene and ends how Lucas *****, the usual whines about AOTC Anakin (some even dare manupulatively to put some political agenda that has nothing to do with potential reference) etc., etc. How predictable! I'm surprised that no one still didn't mention 'the diminishing role' of Padme in ROTS.

Anyway, back to the main topic. I agree with what fastcooljosh said that Edwards didn't have in mind to film the scene, because of all the arguments posted above. but after all, if this scene didn't exist why then the scene on Mustafar exists? It adds nothing to the plot of the movie ( I mean except that director Krennic called for help unsuccessfully to Vader but in the end this could be skipped/changed) so it is obviously pro PT fan service. Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that there is strong pro PT vibe in R1, also I agree with HevyDevy that the fan service itself is not a bad thing generally, but the point is if this scene in the end is absent, why is Vader in the movie at all? That's why I want to see the full version of the Mustafar scene where the original vision of Edwards maybe would be revealed and we would see maybe some conflict between Vader and the other Empire men (as we know from OT he detests their almost cultist attitude towards the technology of the Death Star). Of course, even if some scene with Vader going after the stolen plans is needed in the end of R1, it could be done in a very different way.

But speaking of fan service, I think that the OT fans flatter themselves too much. This is not pro OT fan service, is Pro Rebels fan service and it is not only because the lens of Vader's mask are red form the outside. Look at this clip of how Vader is fighting on Lothal and you will see the similarities. I mean he is fighting against Jedi here, but the gesture and the mood 'unstoppable terminator' is present. Moreover, in Rebels there is a scene when Vader arrives on his star fighter.
So the fan service is dedicated to the main target audience of SW: the younger people.

 

Lucas overdid it!

Sure Vader is a tragic hero, but at the same time he indeed is a merciless powerful Sith Lord before meeting Luke, this is what made him popular as well.

Which is why in the prequel Lucas tried too hard to make Anakin a emotional troubled teenager, which caused quite negative reaction. Hayden got a lot of blame that should have belonged to Lucas' characterization. Sure Vader should have some light hiding inside him, but other than that he should be a very tough villain.

 

When I said that Vader arrives on his starfighter maybe I should say, over it. The similarities between this and R1 scene are obvious. So, for me is also obvious to whom is dedicated this fan service.

 

I really dislike this episode, Vader was too nice on Ahsoka, it's more like a fan service to people.

 

"Too nice", how? Anakin trained her so I suspect she would be able to last longer than most Jedi, certainly better than Kanan/Ezra/Luke who he wasn't even trying to kill. Though I agree the part where he appears atop his starfighter is a little bit much.

 

I mean the dialogue, it showed too much emotion and mercy.

 

Maybe, but Vader isn't just any character. Theatricality is his thing.

 

I loved that Vader scene in Rogue One. I would have liked to have seen ANH start with something like that.

I'm not a huge fan of R1, mostly due to the lack (imo) of real character development, but I was amazed at how effectively Vader was woven in. I'm cynical enough to dismiss off-hand most use of Vader as empty fan-service, too. I've seen grousing about the "choke on your ambition" pun, but I saw it as along the lines of "I find your lack of fairh disturbing" and "Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

 

Ahsoka would last longer because she never stopped training in the Jedi Arts, even when she was no longer a Jedi. Kanan had stopped for the better part of eight years. Kanan's fighting skills would be more like Luke's, whereas Ahoska would be more like Obi-wan's in the PT.

Vader didn't show her mercy. He fought very hard against someone who was healthy and whole. He did want to use her to find Obi-wan and any other Jedi who were left, but once he determined that wasn't going to work, he went full on kill mode.

 

That is another topic but to address it properly we would need to know more about it's genesis. Vader and Krennic were on the Death Star at one point but that was either changed, added or combined.

 

I hope we can a darth vader spin off hunting down Jedi in hiding

 

I wouldn't be keen on that personally. With Vader, IMO you can have a standalone story & one darker than any other SW film. My idea is for an action thriller where an Imperial world is under siege by some really horrible evil group. One that makes even the Empire look quite tame & reasonable. Vader is sent in to resolve the situation & eliminate these scumbags. Sure he's doing it in the interests of Imperial security but as a byproduct he's saving a world or city full of innocent people. This way he can be the dark anti-hero of the story. You can have the amusing irony where the inhabitants see him as some heroic figure who's fighting to save them, while in reality he couldn't care less. A secondary plot can involve a local character or group who are secretly Rebels but are forced to co-operate with Vader to defeat the current threat. At the same time they're planning their freedom from Imperial rule in the longer term. This gives the story some hope at the end & ensures it's not all about the bad guys.

 

I‘m not sure why this discussion of Rebel began. What I meant that is obviously easy to find parallels between Rebels and R1 and as these episodes of Rebels are made first, is obviously to whom the fan serviceis dedicated.
Some of you mentioned that Vader on top of his starfighter is too much but in R1 he is on top again, i.e. end of the hallway and practically is staying on the edge of open space. Now, this is too much that‘s why I said it is fan service to those who watch and love Rebels.

 

The animated shows always feature stylized & over the top elements. Hence Ezra's extreme powers, Inquisitors flying around by twirling their sabres etc.

 

I've wondered why this type of story situation is used more often in films. It seems like it would work well for many comic book films. It would create interesting tensions because the protagonist and antagonist would have different strategies along the way or different subplots -- so you'd have a protagonist having to help the antagonist with acts morally difficult to justify and an antagonist forced to good acts (and he'd make jokes about how awful it is). You'd also have the threat from the inside -- is the antagonist really siding up with the protagonist just to double cross him (like the threat towards Frodo from inside the group of travelers in Fellowship of the Ring). "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" played around with these scenarios and its recognized as one of best pop culture films of all time. Another cool scenario would be to have bad guys sent on a good mission (sort of like Suicide Squad's mission to earn their freedom) but a tough on crime protagonist like Batman is trying to capture them along the way, so Batman is playing the antagonist but for moral reasons. These types of switching around of roles are pretty simple to come up with and create interesting conflicts, but they're hardly ever used.

 

No.

 

On a very much related note...

http://movieweb.com/how-darth-vader-comic-book-fixes-revenge-of-sith/




The PT-haters are already rejoicing that an actual piece of canon is now "fixing" something that some fans felt hurt the image of Darth Vader....


as opposed to the more movie accurate:




Edit: Thanks Disney and LFL for allowing it BTW... Can't wait to see what else they allow PT-Haters to "fix" about the prequels... Maybe real sets, real deserts, less CGI in their new movies... oh wait..

 

That makes me glad I haven't bought any tie-in material since the Disney purchase.

 

Have to see the issue first but the original article sounded like it the issue would start immediately after ROTS. Right after the NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Not retconning the NOOOOOOOOOOOO!