The Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matt Stover (spoilers allowed)

"The only way it could have been better if it was written by James Luceno instead of Matt Stover-I don't feel he's up to the challange of writing for Star Wars."

COULD I DISAGREE MORE?
NO!

Matthew Stover is intelligent, witty, thoughtful, and adds depth to every project he works on. There was more brilliance in a paragraph in Shatterpoint then there is in all of Luceno's books combined.

James Luceno is a good list maker. The problem is that we didn't send him to the market to pick things up, we told him to write a novel. The man lacks deep characters, good writing, and descriptions. He is one of the worst EU writers out there and by far the most over-rated.

They couldn't have given the project to more capable hands. Stover is a genius, and I'm glad he has it.

If you don't think Matthew Stover can handle it, you haven't read the books or you don't know what good books are. I'm sorry, but this goes beyond opinion. To say the man can't write or that he can't handle SW is to ignore the writing.

-Seldon

 

First post w00t!

Does anyone know of any links to where non-hyperspace members can read an excerpt from the novel? I'm dying to read some of it!

-Boran

 

Welcome to the site.
I found the excerpt on another site.


If I'm not mistaken, that's still Hyperspace only.

 

no one gunna give there views on my problems with the book?

I finished the book last night, and i think it was exelently done,
But there were a few things i had a problem with.

Anakin is decribed as the most powerful Jedi ever, they mention how Anakin possibly has the power to beat Sidious *iirc*, yet the way the Duel was written Obi-Wan dominates the fight.
Despite the fact that Dooku delt with him easily while in return, Anakin killed him easily.

Grevious, he has been shown as the guy who can wipe out Jedi left and right, yet Obi-Wan beats him rather easily.

The book explains a lot of things that are just going to make people confused in the Film, since there will be no way to explain them.
Like at the end, since he is more Machine than man, Vader's potential has basicly been destroyed along with his body.
How are people going to know this who just see the movie? all they are going to see is the seemingly much weaker Vader in the OT.

"Obi-Wan once thought as you do."
Obi-Wan didnt, he had resigned himself to having to kill Anakin, he never tries to bring him back to the light really.

Anakin, even after he becomes Vader, is reffered to as Anakin at just the wrong times confused
Stover reffers to Anakin comitting the horendous acts he does, not Vader as it should be.


I dont know, despite being exelant, not only has it left a little bitterness in my mouth, it has also made Darth Vader seem a lot less fearsome than he should.

What do you guys think?

 

I think Anakin was fighting with great rage against Obi-Wan and he was emotionally unstable...thus he fought poorly. That is my take on why he was defeawted by Obi-Wan. Plus, Obi-wan had a huge incentive to win--save Anakin from suffering. To that end, he had prepared himself to kill Anakin. He seemed to believe that there was no coming back from where Anakin had gone.

Grievious could take out normal Jedi, but there were several Jedi Masters that he would have a harder time with and Obi-Wan did not really use standard Jedi methods to kill him. It was a tough battle for Obi-Wan though, and I am not sure why you think it wasn't.

Vader is Anakin...albeit Anakin is buried very deeply, still, at the time of these events, his turn to Vader would have been very new and he would have still been Anakin to the people who knew and loved him. It was only years of his horrendous acts that they could look at him and see Vader...who was more machine than man.

Vader is still a very bad guy, even if he is referred to as Anakin. The fact that he is Anakin makes him all the worse because this was a man who turned his back on his order, on the people who loved him, who let lust for power take him over. Just because he is Anakin does not take away all the horrible things he did against the humanity of the Star Wars universe. That he found a way to rationalize it at the end, even knowing how he had been manipulated just makes you pity him.

 

Oh and half of Vader's potential and rage was still a good deal more than your average force user. So while he will be a weaker Vader, he is still a Vader that can kick your butt. Plus his looks and armor and mask alone would have been very intimidating to your average, everyday person just trying to survive the Empire.

 

> Anakin is decribed as the most powerful Jedi ever, they mention how Anakin possibly has the power to
> beat Sidious *iirc*, yet the way the Duel was written Obi-Wan dominates the fight.
> Despite the fact that Dooku delt with him easily while in return, Anakin killed him easily.

Making an analogy using characters from "Top Gun": Anakin is like Maverick, who was a better and flashier pilot overall, yet Iceman (like Obi-wan) was the "top gun" because he was more methodical and outlasted his opponents. Thus, it can rightly be said that Anakin was the most powerful Jedi ever but not necessarily the best.

> Grevious, he has been shown as the guy who can wipe out Jedi left and right, yet Obi-Wan beats him rather easily.

Obi-wan simply outlasts Grievous and, like Iceman, waits for Grievous to make mistakes.

IMHO, Obi-wan is grossly under-rated. In major prequel battles, his record is 3-2-1 (defeats still-in-their- prime Darth Maul, Grievous, and Anakin; loses twice to Dooku; and draws even with Jango). On the hand, Anakin is 1-3 (defeats old man Dooku; loses to Dooku, Obi-wan, and Padme (a girl!) in the meadow). I do not count the countless Jedi he bushwhacks in the Temple because he had clone troopers with him.

> The book explains a lot of things that are just going to make people confused in the Film, since there will
> be no way to explain them. Like at the end, since he is more Machine than man, Vader's potential has
> basicly been destroyed along with his body. How are people going to know this who just see the
> movie? all they are going to see is the seemingly much weaker Vader in the OT.

As a "little green freak" once said, "Judge me by my size, do you?" Like Yoda, Anakin's force potential lies not in the size of his body (or what's left after the battle), but in the strength of his mind.

> "Obi-Wan once thought as you do." Obi-Wan didnt, he had resigned himself to having to kill Anakin, he
> never tries to bring him back to the light really.

Good question. Perhaps Vader was simply referring to Luke espousing Jedi values like Obi-wan.

> Anakin, even after he becomes Vader, is reffered to as Anakin at just the wrong times confused. Stover
> reffers to Anakin comitting the horendous acts he does, not Vader as it should be.

Don't Yoda and Obi-wan also refer to Vader as Anakin, even after the Jedi Temple massacre? I suppose it takes time to get used to one's new name.

> I dont know, despite being exelant, not only has it left a little bitterness in my mouth, it has also
> made Darth Vader seem a lot less fearsome than he should.

I disagree. Vader is still the ultimate villian. By the time Luke is all grown up, Vader's heart has hardened and is cold & ruthless.

 

I don't see him as the ultimate villain at all.

It's Sidious.

 

EDIT: My bad. It's called Shii-Cho, and apparently Kenobi's the one using it.

 

I dislike the body-mass argument too, but isn't it the only one that makes sense? GL has said that Vader in the suit is less than half the Force-strength of Vader before it. The body-mass loss (and thus loss of midi-chlorians) is the only explanation that really makes sense.

Besides, we already know that Yoda was at least partially wrong (or lying) when he said "Size matters not". After all, if size really didn't matter, then Jedi would be able to smash warships into each other and alter the courses of planets (kinda like they were in Clone Wars ).

 

I believe we're supposed to assume that Obi-Wan is the only character who could defeat ROTS-era Anakin.

Why? Obi-Wan is Anakin's master - he trained Anakin and fought by his side. He knows Anakin in and out, and more importantly, he knows Anakin's personality.

When Anakin gets too angry, he makes mistakes. Obi-Wan doesn't get angry and he doesn't make mistakes.

 

Sorry Raven, but you're wrong. Not Hyperspace only anymore.

 

I'm very depressed about Dooku's death. =(

 

Judging by the lack of response, I guess we are just to assume that they don't clone Vader new flesh for plot points.

 

Vader is the ultimate movie villain, hands down (second only to Hannibal Lecter). While Sidious is indeed the quintessential bad guy, whose manipulations cause ripples of death, destruction, and corruption throughout the known galaxy, he is merely the catalyst for converting a once-vaunted hero into a total villain. Sidious could never have accomplished what he did without Anakin/Vader's assistance. These six movies were never about anyone else but Vader, even that wus Luke was only second fiddle in the OT.
Regarding Vader's force powers, he simply does not need them. Countless flunkies, his immense physical power, the intimidating black armor, his skill with the lightsaber, and Force Choke, are the only weapons he needs, not to mention the backing of arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy.
Long Live the memory of Lord Vader!

 

I guess I never thought in terms of body mass to begin with. To me the whole thing seemed to be more a matter of the presence of 'unnatural' body parts somehow interfering with the ability to channel and manipulate the Force. Like Vader, with all his prosthetics, is somehow less 'alive' than the mostly organic Anakin. Midichlorians aside, I guess I just skew toward a more philosophical/mystical interpretation of the Force.

Maybe I'm just restating the body-mass thing in a different way. I dunno. I know what I think on the issue, and to me there's a significant difference... I'm probably just articulating the point poorly. It seems significant to me to view the issue in terms of 'more non-organic mass' rather than 'less organic mass'. To me it's not the loss of organic body parts so much as the addition of inorganic ones that makes the difference.

 

Yay! my faith in Lord Vader is back!

Thank you!



I guess you guys are right.

*Blind Rage.
*Person who taught you all you know.
*In contrast to your rage a guy who is eternally-calm.

Yea, i can see how Vader lost really

Still wish his Saber had slipped with Palpy though ¬_¬


Sooooo, who changes Vader's lightbulbs for him? we all know how he handles electric, not good for him...

 

Sorry Raven, but you're wrong. Not Hyperspace only anymore.

Thank you.

 

I didn't like Traitor, and went into reading this book with an admitted bias, but this has to be one of the best written and most heartwrenching books I've ever read. A true tale of human greed and selfish love, of self-loathing, helplessness, and being alone in the universe. I would truly rank this right up there with Shakespeareas a look on the human soul.

My impression is that Ani didn't kill Palpatine b/c, if he did, he would have been all alone, with purpose, without a single soul to connect with, without a kindred spirit. Before Padme's death, Ani contemplates overthrowing Palps; after her death, he no longer wants too, b/c there is NOBODY else in his universe [until Luke comes along and makes that seem desirable again, as seen in ESB].

Such a sad story, but it well portrays the tin line between selfish love and bitter hate. I could relate to it. I think we all can.

 

My impression is that Ani didn't kill Palpatine b/c, if he did, he would have been all alone, with purpose, without a single soul to connect with, without a kindred spirit. Before Padme's death, Ani contemplates overthrowing Palps; after her death, he no longer wants too, b/c there is NOBODY else in his universe [until Luke comes along and makes that seem desirable again, as seen in ESB].

Oh i agree, it doesnt stop me from wanting his saber to slip though

 

I read the book the other day quite quickly and skimmed certain parts so can anyone answer my question - is Quinlan Vos mentioned in the novel? He's in the graphic novel.

Also does anyone feel that after getting to know some of the more popular Jedi over the past 6 years that the way in which so many of them were just wiped out that it all seemed a little quick - I was expecting the Jedi Purge to take a lot longer, perhaps started in this film and finished in further comics and novels, however it seems there are only Yoda, Obi-Wan and, in GL's mind at least, a few stragglers and not many more. Obviously the novels will probably have more Jedi alive than GL probably had in his mind - but still, they were wiped out pretty quick and with little or no fighting back in every case.

 

I think there is a passing refrence to Quinlan.

And the novel doesnt really shed much light on the remaining Jedi.

All in the Temple are seemingly wiped out.

And there were no warning signs that the clones were gunna turn on them, Obi-Wan was just extremly lucky.

Then again, Quinlan isnt currently a General, so he may very well have survived.

 

I believe it was said that even crippled, Darth Vader in his armor still was only 20% less powerful that Darth Sidious, and was still able to kill him in Return of the Jedi.

80% of Darth Sidious' power is still enough to completely murder any Jedi, soldier or warrior in the galaxy regardless of their numbers.

Luke was the only person who even had a prayer against him.