ST The Rey Parentage Thread (with new poll; see notes on page 2447)

Well, yes - that was the point of my post - as the post itself made clear.

 

I don't think we ever got a firm handle on this "chosen one" prophecy...

Satipo

Remember Maz also says that Luke could still come back to Rey (if you read "whomever" "never coming back" as "never coming back to Rey" - source: proper grammar).

Which imo makes very little sense if they aren't related.

Remember, too, that Maz says "whomever" Rey is waiting for ON JAKKU are not coming back.

Rey is waiting for her family. But who says she's waiting on the right planet?

Remember the "I'll come back for you" voice in the novelizations' vision? Recall that that scene does NOT take place on Jakku. That, imo, is significant.

It might imply that Rey's family tried to come back for her on that planet, but lil Rey had been taken to Jakku. But Rey only remembers that she was told by her family that they'd come back. And thus remained on Jakku for all those years, while her family was unable to find her.

This might seem farfetched/convoluted - except that Rey seems to have heard that voice *on a planet other than Jakku.* AND the statement that Luke could still come back to Rey. (Han's "women always figure out the truth" line right before they enter Maz's castle = narrative indication that Maz = "oracle"/reliable narrator. I mean, if she weren't, there would really be no point to Maz's dialogue at all. It would do nothing for the story.)

So Rey is waiting for her family on Jakku, thinking they were tbe ones who left her there. But the ones who left her there - ie "whomever" Rey is waiting for *on Jakku* are never coming back.

That is, if we view the script as a carefully constructed literary work.

 

If Rey and Kylo are cousins, and one kills the other... Snoke wins. It doesn't even matter which one dies. If "Rey Skywalker" gives into her hatred and kills Kylo, which is what Snoke wants, she will be his. Snoke wants the destruction of the Skywalker family and the permanent eradication of the Jedi.

The problem with making Rey and Kylo related, is that Kylo has been trained specifically to overcome his sentiment for family, so that he can kill other Skywalkers/Solos. This is what "I will finish what you started" apparently means, according to the canon storybook that was released in April 2016.

We've seen Kylo destroy a family member already. We know from this that he's already beyond the point where Vader was perceived to have "failed" due to his compassion for family. I consider "Rey Skywalker" to be at more risk of being killed than Rey Unrelated.

Rey stands a greater chance of reaching Kylo and convincing him to turn away from the dark side if she's entirely unrelated, imo. We've seen Kylo attempt to spare Rey's life by offering to train her instead, and this came without any kind of a familial reveal.

I think there is no shame in the Skywalker family receiving outside help. They've tried battling this strange new enemy on their own for about 30 years. Snoke groomed Ben Solo into a weapon against his own family, since the very beginning, and outside intervention may be exactly what they need.

 

Kasdan and JJ are both good writers. They know what they were doing with that line (which may be a clue in itself).

It's written to cover everything you mention above. It tells us that whoever Rey is waiting for (i.e. her family) are never coming back - then differentiates between who Rey is waiting for and Luke. Maz can even be wrong or mistaken about who she Rey's family is, but that's not really the point imo. I happen to think there is a chance that JJ and LK legitimately left it to RJ to define who Rey is - so the whole thing is, as JJ says, constructed to be open-ended.

I agree that "women always figure out the truth" is one that nods to where this is going (and may well be more ironic if he ends up being her father).

All I'm saying is that this line intentionally manages to do two things at once - separate out who Rey is waiting for (her family) from Luke - whilst leaving open the door that Luke is actually Rey's family. Pablo's tweets further support this. Whether Pablo is covering the fact that Luke is her father or not almost backs up the whole thing. But the point of the line is to close a door but leave it open IMO.

I am 100% not saying that Maz's line is concrete confirmation Luke is not related to Rey.

But if she is unrelated to Luke, this line covers that.

 

I absolutely do NOT want to see Kylo kill Rey or the other way around. If Ben dies it will be through an act of heroic self-sacrifice *after* he is redeemed. It would certainly grant him true absolution, imo.

I think you DO make a good point re: Kylo's demonstrated ability to kill family members or allow same to be killed. However, LFL/the actors really love hammering home this parentage/legacy/lineage/family thing. I think Kylo's redemption will, frankly, be more complex than Vaders. Kylo, unlike Vader, currently has serious unresolved issues with his family. I think family will start having a greater influence on his behavior once those are hammered out.

At this point, and considering the extremely limited narrative space available (the ST is FAR denser, storyline-eise, than either the OT or the PT), I don't see any other path to Kylo's redemption that wouldn't feel rushed and/or forced (no pun intended!). The family issues have been sketched out and the path to their resolution set up already (taking what we know of TLJ into account).

I also believe Kylo's redemption does not rely solely on Rey's efforts. Leia will play an important role, imo. Luke, certainly. Maybe, if we're really lucky, Anakin's ghost will pop up? This would most certainly justify LFL's beating of the "family!!!" drum. I think if the Rey-Kylo dynamic were intended to be by far the most important dynamic in the ST, the second movie - traditionally the dramatic climax of a trilogy - having the Luke-Rey relationship as its "beating heart" would be a pretty WTF? mistake in terms of narrative structure/pacing. Far preferable for TLJ to focus on Kylo-Rey instead so as to give enough narrative space and focus to the evolution and development of that relationship.

Kylo's behavior towards Rey is interesting. What struck me most was the "What girl??" moment, which imo indicates that there's more of a backstory here than we've been told thus far. Which, imo, makes more sense than Rey simply being this transformative angel of light figure. Frankly, everything about the Kylo-Rey dynamic/relationship/behavior/etc - including JJ's commentary - feels to me to not only be perfectly consistant with them being related but what I would *expect* if they are related.

We don't know much about what Kylo knows/figures out in TFA (see, "what girl??"), nor, even, what Rey knows or remembers. Frankly we still know very little about what anybody knows/remembers!

Yes, agree that Snoke knew very well that Ben would be the most effective weapon against Luke. Note how Snoke is terrified of Luke yet doesn't seem to have a problem with risking Kylo hunting Luke down. Is Kylo nearly as powerful as his uncle? I can't possibly imagine that. But Kylo is the only individual Snoke could throw against Luke whom Luke would refuse to kill.

Satipo

If you're talking specifically and solely about "whomever" never coming back to Rey, I agree.

The issue is really the surrounding context. It's one thing if we're dealing with one line that's ambiguois in isolation. However, imo, we are not.

Imo, "ambiguous" = multiple *equally likely/viable* possible meanings.

Other Maz lines simply mean far less sense if one tries to read them a different way.

Example: "I'm going to a family reunion" = FAR more likely to mean "I'm going to a gathering of my blood/adopted/by-marriage relatives" than to mean "I'm going to a gathering of my super-best friends."

 

Since I've been on vacation, I've spent some time this weekend seeking out the arguments that run counter to my own Solo preference. From what I've found, every group has some canon-hints, clues supporting their thesis's. No ones argument is illogical and I see a ton to support them all. But after looking around, I find the most heft for an idea that I'm sure has supporters here, but I'm not seeing argued in favor of: Kenobi.

I'm sure those supporters are here but it was an enlightening 48 hours. To anyone who has spent months in the trenches arguing for a certain outcome, I would recommend it. It opens the mind.

 

The problem with Kenobi is that there is nothing spiritual or meaningful about it other than to promote a future Kenobi movie. It would be nothing more than a business scam to sell something. The story was never about the conflict between Skywalkers and Kenobis and it was never the role of a Kenobi to come and clean up the entire Skywalker mess. If that's the case then the Skywalkers should never have been found or reproduce. They are relegated to being a cursed family. If that's Lucasfilm's goal then they can stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

Also...Obi-wan isn't in the ST. SW newbies would be going "Huh?"

 

we hear his voice without any mention of who the voice even belongs to. I don't think Palpatine was ever mentioned either. I do wonder if the newbies think Kenobi's voice is the force itself speaking to Rey?

 

Palpatine's voice is heard during the Force back

 

but he isn't directly talking to Rey like Kenobi does, which is my point.

 

the actors diversifying,.. is called Harrison Ford syndrome... I'm sorry, I love the 1 movie I have seen of Daisy and John but if they think they will ever make a movie "Bigger,Better, etc" than Star Wars then they need to fire their managers. if they want to get a big head and leave Star Wars they will never get that high again. IMHO,. people use this excuse because Harrison Ford hated Han Solo

 

They dont want tbeir careers to end up like Carrie's and Mark's.

 

Yeah, Daisy and John strike me as people that just love acting. They arent trying to one up themselves. They just want to get better and challenge themselves and have fun with it.

 

Not my type of game really, MMO's are fun for awhile but then they get repetative.

Anyways, about Rey's potential family tree.

 

Palpatine isnt a Force Ghost. Let's go back to the "Force ghost Casino" we are still watching Anakin watch Star Wars,. we get to the Maz Castle scene. Anakin is like 15to1 Rey freaks out when she touches the light saber.. Yoda's is like "That action I will take" Obi Wan is like "I sense Padme's cool calm demeanor, I say she doesn't freak out.. Anakin is like bets closed.. Quiet.. Rey touches the Saber and Freaks out,.. Anakin is slapping his knee laughing, Yoda is ordering a shot to celebrate and then Qui GON gets on his loud speaker. Yells to Obi Wan,. I'm your Master go comfort Rey... Obi Wan,... "Rey" "these are your first steps" the point of this non sense is Obi Wan/Yoda are very much part of Anakin Skywalker.

 

The Old Skywalker Family Tree, for reference purposes.

 

I'm all in related bandwagon.
Rey wants her real family and has waited 15ish years for them..........give her that family back.

dead parents gives her nothing but more sadness/misery.
parents who never show up in the ST, also gives her nothing.

parents who show up but barely will never be the focus of any movie as she develops more important relationship with other characters.

Luke and/or H/L-Kylo (and is for the fact that all 4 are family and or is for parentage) at least gives her that family and will have major focus in the films on that relationship, which also adds more drama. As well as making it easier for those relationships to be the heart of the ST, as she will have developed something for all 3 films with all of them.

CT said the answer to her parentage/lineage will be deeply and profoundly satisfying and that she deserves it. He's not talking about a POV of the audience but of Reys. Dead or no show parents are neither satisfying nor deserving for a character who has wanted that longing for almost 2 decades. Which is even more reason why those 2 are unlikely to be the answer.

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

Think of the demo for the ST: Parents who loved the OT and their kids. Father-daughter hits both demos perfectly, and with increadibly relatable themes.

Moreover, the second movie is the dramatic high point of the ST, and Luke/Rey's relationship is its "beating heart." Tension, emotion, drama, angst? If they aren't related, that's just Luke, basically, with Rey as the outside observer/"fixer." You want it to engulf both of them? Father/daughter. Don't see how TLJ can reach a high emotional intensity for that relationship any other way. One reason why my ReySky theory changed.

 

When I first heard that from CT, I thought it meant that they'd already planned the whole thing and he knew what was coming. Going by RJ, the directors of VIII and IX get to make it up by themselves. As in, CT has to come up with this deeply satisfying answer out of his own imagination. He knows the character deserves something gasp-inducing and plot-changing. I remain to be convinced that eliciting gasps is within CT's range, so now I'm braced for something cliched and predictable. She'll turn out to be Poe's cousin, or the kid of someone hastily introduced into IX, or the result of some experiment to impregnate women with cloned DNA from Vader's toothbrush, or some other concept gleaned from fan fiction. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Nope, Rey's parentage was set early in TFA development.No indication it's ever changed.

However, it sounds like RJ/CT got to fill in other aspects of her backstory. And, of course, how it's revealed.

Of course, "deeply and profoundly satisfying" doesn't have one set meaning But if I had to hazard a guess I'd say he's promising an answer that he/LFL *believes* would make most fans/viewers happy.

So, in my view, the question isnt "What do I think would be profoundly satisfying?" but rather "What does LFL think the majority of the audience will find profoundly satisfying?" Which might be two conpletely different things.

 

I think the Kenobi "camp" is a generational thing. for example. Im OT generation. When I was a kid Luke Skywalker was in his prime. I view Obi Wan Kenobi is the Merlin like Wizard that opened Luke's eyes to the Force.

I am not taking anythign from Obi Wan Kenobi. His resume is impeccable. He is the Master Saberman of the Galaxy. Defeated Anakin PRIME / deafeats Maul Prime / defeats General Grivous (sp) / deafeats Maul again!. Does not die to Darth Vader. Obi Wan Kenobi is Boss. He is also the PT version of the good guy you get behind. Thats why I feel people are getting lost in the allure of Rey Kenobi.

I'm going to anger people when I say this. The story is of Anakin Skywalker. So if it's Rey No one, Star Wars is broken at the core beyond repair. If she is a Kenobi, Star Wars is broken but can be repaired (his resume is impeccable) If Rey is Skywalker Star Wars is Star Wars.

 

I sort of swing between Random and Skywalker, and I think there are good cases to be made either way. Today is a Monday, and on Mondays I believe Rey is a Skywalker.

Here's the way I see it right now:

1. Rey says she's waiting for her family; Maz could easily have echoed this line directly when saying they weren't coming back, but she didn't, as if Kasdan and Abrams deliberately injected ambiguity in there to open up the possibility that she's related to the legacy characters.
2. We have been given backstory on Leia in the form of ancillary material but none on Luke.
3. Is it more likely that Rey's mysterious origins and Luke's mysterious backstory are two separate threads, or is it that these two mysteries are one and the same?

It all boils down to the fact that Rey and Luke are clearly connected via their backstories, and there's been a deliberate attempt to keep open the possibility that he is the literal family she's been looking for. It seems almost perverse to open that possibility with TFA only to then yank it away again with TLJ. OTOH, keeping the Random possibility open for now just makes sense, since they'd want the audience to discover that Luke and Rey are father and daughter as the characters discover it, when they're together.

Pushing Luke to the end of TFA solved a number of problems, one of which was that a second parentage reveal was not weighing down the film--it became a problem for Episode VIII instead. TFA was the Han/Kylo movie, TLJ would be the Luke/Rey movie and Episode IX would be the Leia/Kylo movie (which is sadly not to be--expect the Luke/Kylo movie instead). Each movie then explores a different aspect of the legacy of the OT via parent/child relationships.

Anyway, tomorrow I'll be thinking Random again...

 

one and the same backstories is more fitting.
Does it make sense to show Luke's backstory, then to seperatly show Reys? And spend so much time creating 2 different dramatic stories in the same movie? Or do you unite them to create one cohesive story/backstory, one core, one heart with 2 beats?