ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Having never watched Harry Potter & I don't know who Zuko is, so I cannot speak for their redemptions. However I did watch Buffy so I know the parallels between the characters of Spike and Kylo, and I am all for Kylo living through his redemption and living with it after just like Spike. I simply hope that they'd don't go for another redemption in death, because that is something they can do, good narrative or not because it's still their story. And there are a lot of people who want to see Kylo Ren killed off for what he's done, without any real consideration for the SL and wider implications of what his actions can lead to - back to that word once again - redemption.

I am not one of those people who want every villain to be killed off. I am all for people redeeming themselves, being given second chances etc and that is exactly how I see the character of Kylo Ren heading - for redemption and living with what he has done as Ben Solo.

 

What if it already happened though at the end of this movie? "You need a teacher, I can show you the ways of the force" rey then symbolically extinguishing the saber/darkside?

What if the spell is actually already broken

 

Have the people in this thread since these rumours from a few months ago? They're probably total BS, but if true Reylo fans are going to be VERY happy with VIII:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarssp...ave_read_a_very_early_storyboard_for_episode/

 

Meh, it won't take as much time as people are thinking. A lot of this relies on questions we don't have the answers to yet... mainly what happened to Ren as a child and what he actually "wants" (as in: what did Vader start that he intends to finish). I think you'd be surprised to see just how quickly good writing can turn any character around. Ren is actually in a better position for redemption than most anti-villains because fans are extremely emotionally invested in the character. Just look at all the young Ren artwork out there, the Emo Kylo Ren Twitter, the fact that Undercover Boss: Starkiller Base (which was essentially making fun of how emotional and ridiculous Ren really is) went incredibly viral. People think the character is funny. There's a reason they call him a "Disney princess". Nobody could have poked fun at Vader or Sidious or Maul that way, which is just more proof that Ren is slated for the ultimate redemption arc.

Very fake. It has been confirmed that Rey's abandonment on Jakku and the massacre happened years apart.

 

Hopefully they won't go for redemption-by-death like they did in Buffy. Clearly it was a mistake, since they then had to find a way to reincarnate Spike so he could star on Angel. Star Wars at least already knows that they need Kylo Ren for X-XII.

 

DP

 

This piece of fan art made me well up

 

Penny Crayon
Thank you very much for posting the only TFA fanart which took me weeks to get over. Well done.

 

I agree..Maybe he'll go into a self-imposed exile (at the end of episode 9) because of all things he did as Kylo Ren...then he could come back for the next trilogy as perfectly balanced grey Jedi..and i really have a feeling that we'll see at least one grey Jedi

 

Speaking of sad fan art . . . This one made my heart hurt for like a week.

 

In all fairness Spike's redemption happened loooooong before his sacrifice. His redemption story really started in Season 5 and continued all the way until the end of Season 6. Season 7 was redeemed Spike. As soon as he got his soul back and truly repented he was redeemed. The sacrifice was just the a little bow on the conclusion of the series, and it fit well. Besides, fans already knew Spike would be back in Angel Season 5 before he sacrificed himself at the end of Buffy Season 7, so there was no real death-by-redemption to speak of.

 

I agree with all of this. I am also very, very worried about Trevorrow being at the helm of IX. Somebody dropped the ball -- big time. I am encouraged by the fact that they weren't afraid to change directions and nix Arndt when his scripting efforts proved to be subpar. I have a little hope that if Trevorrow is not up to snuff JJ might step in and take over like with Arndt. Unlikely, but a lot can happen between VIII and IX.

To your other point, I also think the Reylo will be subtle in VIII just because of how great a distance there is between Kylo and Rey at this point, at least ostensibly. I want and expect some kind of kiss in episode VIII because it's tradition, but since there will be tons of other things going on around them, I think it would take a lot for Kylo and Rey to realistically get to that point. Unless it's a Force kiss.

What I do think will be key in VIII if Reylo has a chance in hell of happening:
-For FinnRey to be further entrenched in its already established familyzoning. There should be no ambiguity on this point going forward, imo.
-For Ren to make some kind of extravagant, selfless or may even self-sacrificial gesture for the sake of Rey's wellbeing to drive the point home to the more concrete-thinking viewers that yes, indeed, Ren "likes" Rey and doesn't want to kill/dominate/abuse her.

I'd love if Ren's grand gesture was something like going against a direct order from Snoke to kill Rey. Not only sparing her life, but actually turning against Snoke.

By the way, the discussion of power dynamics between Kylo and Rey is always fascinating to me. To me equality between them is almost a requisite. At least how I look at them. But since he's been in this quest for power and domination to be equal Ren IS required to submit, and I think he very much wants to. There is a gorgeous song by one of my favorite bands (Interpol) called Lights that is very Reylo, imo, and speaks to the need to be contained by an organizing presence, which is what I think Ren would like above all:

All that I see
Show me your ways
Teach me to meet my desires
With some grace

All that I fear
Don't turn away
And leave me to plead in this hole of a place
'Cause what if I never break?

Estuary, won't you take me
Far away, far away?

All that I seek
Please police me
I want you to police me
But keep it clean

From a hero/villain standpoint, and even from a power dynamic standpoint in the aftermath of their lightsaber duel, I think that there is a burden on episode VIII to restore the equality between Rey and Ren by having him defeat during their next one-on-one combat, and then spare her. I think there's going to be a back and forth between them, always seeking equilibrium.

I fully agree with the notion that for Reylo to be copacetic, Rey is required to be in position of relative strength to Kylo's relative weakness before she can enter into a relationship with him. I will add that that strength/weakness dynamic doesn't have to be literal. It can be their perceived roles and positions in society. Once all is said and done, Rey will likely be the hero figure, and Ren will be some kind of social pariah. Redeemed, having proven his renouncing of the dark side and the FO through his actions, but still not quite belonging and being very much in the periphery in the new world order post FO's fall.


I think it would be awesome if golden girl hero Rey does the unexpected: rather than choosing to be with golden boy hero Finn or Poe, she chooses the disenfranchised Ben Solo. And by the way, this would be the perfect ending in terms of subversion of roles. Rey starts out as the scavenger and Ren the royal, the commander. In the end, if he survives (and I believe he will) he will most likely be the misfit and Rey will be the one in a position of power. Very cool and thematically appropriate, imo.

 

I really wonder what would happen if Kylo and Chewbacca got a scene together. Although tbh I guess it might turn into Hulk vs Loki.

 

Just a thought, if Force bond is true... What if it is more leech-like from Rey's end? Perhaps she can only have her great feats when Kylo is around, when he isn't she is like Luke in ANH or Hoth a novice in every sense of the word.

This makes Rey feel rather useless and angry so she seeks Kylo out because she likes the power (i.e. darkside)

 

Fantastic.

That's true. My phrasing was very clumsy. Though I do think that Spike's death was part of his extended redemption arc, he had redeemed himself mostly by the time he got his soul back. Of course, he was then triggered by the First Evil (?) and killed a bunch of people while crazy, so perhaps he had a bit more to make up for. Going up in a ball of flame to save Buffy was maybe still a part of his atonement.

I tend to think it was clumsy writing, though, considering that he had to be resurrected for Angel. They wanted him for a dramatic end for Buffy, but also to give interest to the other show.

 

Why are you doing this to meee?

 

Bloodline goes back sixish years before TFA and what's interesting is Leia is still a senator. We already know that Leia and Han went back to what they knew best AFTER Ben's turning. So while the pov I think will be solely Leia's, it will have to cover her emotional reaction to the event and maybe if we're lucky give some insights of what causes Ben to become Kylo. And if we're getting it right, that means Ben turned when he was 23-24. But maybe we'll get some newborn Ben in Leia's memories.

I'm kind of glad that if Bloodlines is focused around the time of Ben's turning, that has to take a huge emotional toll that the movies probably won't have time to cover.

 

bela.mesecina

AnneNeville

Sorryyy :/ I just thought maybe we could grieve together


Rimfaxe96

That would be very interesting/intense. I'd be curious to see how they would make the interaction go down. I don't think I could bear a violent/physical altercation or fight between Kylo and Chewie.

 

I think that makes a lot of sense. They're going to change some of the EU lore surrounding the Force Bond if they plan to use it in this Trilogy. I'm sure they'll simplify it and give us a very clear explanation about what it actually is and what effects it has on those under its influence. Either way I think it was made very clear that Rey grows stronger when Ren grows weaker. It happens so much in the final act of The Force Awakens. They seem to be swapping emotions and power-levels and abilities all over the place. Whenever she becomes angry, he becomes very calm, even timid. There's something going on.

I believe these gifs fall under free-use here now because they were in old trailers/recent trailer. Someone warn me if that is not the case.




Kylo saber flip. Very Kylo. Only Kylo does it like that.




Rey walks like Kylo.

 

RIGHT IN THE FEELS.

 

My discussion of the political situation in the Redemption thread sort of took it over, so I started a new thread in case people have evidence or thoughts about the political structure in the current Star Wars universe and how it affects character interpretation:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/politics-and-the-star-wars-universe.50039379/

 

Great post!!!

I wholeheartedly agree that they do need to make the relationships clear in VIII.

Rey and BB-8 are totally the best ship!!! (platonic of course)

 

Isn't that exactly what over-analysis is?

 

I'm on team force kiss. Force kiss, force kiss. It would be epic!

As to your other points, maybe Finn gets another LI? I was thinking about it, I agree they look like almost a potential couple and there's room for development in that direction. At the same time, "my friend" is a way to clear up at what stage their relationship is at the end of TFA. Sure, it means nothing, they can still go from friendship to more, but at least in TFA, that's where it stands.