ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Most of us on this thread may think that TFA showed a man falling hard for a girl. However, other parts of this forum show that an awful lot of fans picked up nothing of the sort. To lots of the audience, TFA ended with the hero conquering the villain. They think the hero hates the villain, and will continue to hate him.

This is unusual for a romantic storyline, especially in Star Wars. Usually you're fairly sure who the romantic protagonists are. You're just not sure how they'll get there.

So when Episode VIII kicks off, a large part of the audience are expecting the romance to be Finn/Rey, with Kylo and Rey having endless sabre battles till she kills him. If the film dives straight in to Kylo's clear attraction to Rey, millions of viewers will be genuinely baffled. It won't be just a plot twist; they'll honestly have had no clue that Kylo felt anything at all for Rey. It'll be like getting to a late chapter in Pride and Prejudice and being told that Darcy is in love with Mary.

So, assuming that Reylo is the plan, how will Rian deal with the schism between those-who-saw-subtext and those-who-saw-nothing?

 

I don't buy Rey being hidden for that reason. The writers did everything in their power to separate Rey from Finn's Stormtrooper/Resistance sub-plot in The Force Awakens, just as they did everything in their power to separate Finn from Rey's Force Sensitivity plot (as in knocking him out and having him be coincidentally absent in all critical moments).

The stolen child soldier gambit is Finn's story. It belongs to him. I highly doubt the writers are going to go against their established conscious decisions in order to shove Rey into Finn's B-Plot, and they also aren't going to shove Finn into Rey's A-Plot either. The writer created characters who quite literally do not belong in each other's diverging plots (and they went about that by making the characters totally ignorant to the existence of said diverging plots).

Rey's abandonment feels like an act of desperation to me, not a long-term plan.

 

Yes. And one reason why the "pull to the Light" is so difficult to analyse in realistic terms is that this magical, symbolic "Light" comprises so many different elements. It's a pull to his natural self, a pull to "goodness", a pull to the family he lost, a pull to love and an emotional connection, and so forth... but even though the pull is mainly spiritual, his attraction to Rey also has an unquestionably physical element to it because the pull to the light is, in part, a pull to life. He's a young man trapped in an existence that seems like living death. (One reason why I think virgin!Kylo makes more narrative sense; he's being seduced by the life he missed out on.)

 

We all know this face. It makes an appearance in just about every fairytale and romantic comedy ever made. It's the face the male lead shows when he sees the female lead in a new light. It's a moment of reverential wonder, of realization, and of recognition. The reserved, unpopular, insecure girl reveals the inner light she's been hiding from the world, and the boy is dazzled by her. This face is impossible to mistake because – like Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet – it's deeply ingrained within all of us.

 

I like your idea, very original. Everything has been pointing out that Rey being left in Jakku has nothing to do with Ben and whatever tragedy happened with Luke. And still, her story is interesting and in theory is going to be satisfying. It would be cool.

I'd like to see Rey and Finn ans siblings or half siblings, but everyone thinks its too cliché and would be repetitive.

 

The Force Awakens may have pulled on tropes from ANH, but the control trio (or core four, if Poe is included) mark a major departure from the more traditional movies. The characters the creators put center stage reflect the contemporary moment. More diverse and inclusive in terms of race/ethnicity, with Finn taking a major role and Poe a minor one. More welcoming towards alternative sexualities (with Poe's apparent attraction to Finn, even if they never follow up on it). More willing to put a woman at the center of the story, with Rey being presented as strong, brave, good, and yet with a potential for darkness, without being glammed up and sexualized (so far). More embracing of non-traditional masculinity, with Kylo Ren showing weakness, vulnerability, and emotion.

The gender dynamics being explored are ones that have been controversial for some time now. There is a lot of mockery of men who don't deny their emotional lives (feminized men), and of women that are strong and assertive. It is bold that the creators of this film killed off the representative of old-school masculinity and are proposing a new model of manhood (though Kylo is pretty dysfunctional at this time, so he has a lot of growth to go through to be a good contemporary model of manhood; to some degree, Finn is also a sensitive modern man who embraces his own fears and vulnerabilities, though he does cover it up somewhat with lies and bravado, at least in front of Rey).


I guess it isn't surprising that many viewers are reading the film differently from romance readers. The tropes are recognizable if you have frequently encountered them before, but Star Wars' genre doesn't generally use them. Nor do most popular fictions that court male viewers and the GA (because in the past, those two groups have been treated as the same).

 

Thank you. Love your evidence. And yes, Kylo is terrible liar... that makes him even more attractive. Red SW insider yesterday and I'm very disappointed with analysis of Kylo Ren - they portraited him as new Darth Vader and really really evil villain. I really didn't like their explanation, too simple, too one dimensional, too STUPID... hope that this won't come true.

 

Ok, that sounds better.

 

We shall see.

True story: I know someone who didn't know anything about Pride and Prejudice beforehand, and who was genuinely shocked by the proposal scene. She thought Lizzy & Wickham would be endgame.

 

I get what you are saying, but I don't think there's such a great schism. Lots of people saw something between Kylo and Rey, in the sense that they thought he was sexually interested in her (even if they frame it in a very negative way, they see it). Some people thought he even treats her differently.

I'd say the first obstacle is Rey Skywalker, not only because some people don't like love between cousins, but because many think Rey is the hero and the Skywalker and her role is to kick Kylo's ***. It's about plot expectations. Actually, reversing plot expectations is not a bad thing at all, because people like to be surprised, so it's not a problem. But, again, these people that "don't see anything" actually see it, but ignore it because it doesn't conform to their plot expectations. Once Rey is not a Skywalker, some perceptions will shift.

Other than that, Kylo needs to do something to become a little more sympathetic. He could save Rey or Leia, for instance. I don't think that would be hard. We could have more info about his past. Many things can be done in this sense.

I actually think the "shocking reveal" in the next movie will be Kylo declaring his feelings. For it to be shocking, it needs to be somewhat surprising, right? So for these people that don't see anything, it's ok. The thing is that, if the love plot won't be one sided, Rey needs to be moved/confused/ conflicted about it, and for that to happen, Kylo can't continue to be a monster. That's the development.

And yes, I guess, "wow, what a shocking twist" is a satisfying plot development, especially if makes the audience reconsider the events leading to that twist, and can actually see that it was there.

 

By going at it slowly, that's how. The general audience will take what is given to them as long as it makes sense, and I know Ren's infatuation with Rey not only makes sense, there is a ton of narrative, character, musical and film evidence to support it. It's there, and people are going to be pleasantly surprised and immediately want to go back and watch The Force Awakens again to see just what they missed.

The thing is, as soon as it's revealed that Rey isn't a Skywalker people are going to be way more open to the idea in general. The overwhelming assumption that they're related damaged many peoples' perspectives because they didn't allow themselves to see what was so plainly unfolding on the big screen. It went right over their heads, and there's nothing wrong with that. I know this plot-twist makes perfect sense, and the general audience will see that too when they watch The Force Awakens again.

As for specifics... I would portray Ren's infatuation as a frustration and allow viewers to come to terms with the fact that he feels "something" for her along with him. No doubt he'll have regressed a little at the beginning of the film (because it's a new movie, we'll need to build things up again). That's how this kind of thing has to work. He'll be recovering from his wounds and training with Snoke, trying to live the existence he always wanted (pull to the Light free, even though we all know it'll be there and it'll be stronger than ever before). He'll try to ignore again, and it will frustrate him enormously.

At the same time (if the Force Bond is real) I would have Rey dream about Ren, absorb his emotions, thoughts and memories over the long-distance that separates them, but I wouldn't have her "realize" it immediately. And I would have her feel very confused and ashamed of it.

I think viewers may be forced to come to the conclusion when Ren does something huge to help Rey (i.e. pulling a heel-faced turn and saving her life).

 

This post reminded me of Lester Burnhams face in American Beauty! I remember laughing so hard at how completely hooked the guy was XD

 

Easily, this is Rian and that's his job. I realised how great this movie and everyone in it's crew is mastermind in his/hers area in Dubrovnik. They are crazy ppl, they didn't sleep at all. I saw the guy from the crew ordering 4 cups of coffee in half an hour. They can do anything they want, the other problem is do they really want to do that - I hope they do. #Reylo

 

Awe look at him! Adorable! I just wanna hug him and squeeze him!

 

And we know that Rey will be confused about her feelings.

 

Vaderito, thank you for putting those images side by side. There are definite parallels, and it is poignant and sad. I'm surprised I hadn't noticed the similarities between Kylo seated before the lit mask and Kylo kneeling before the lit Rey. In the first part of the movie, Vader's mask is his only confidant, and the only one to whom he is vulnerable. But he exposes himself to Rey, and sees some kind of connection (and expects some kind of connection that is not overtly unfriendly-"You still want to kill me?").

As deluded as Kylo is to feel a connection to someone he's just terrified, it must seem like an upgrade to a lonely person to suddenly have a flesh and blood connection.

 

Oh, that is wonderful.

 

Rey Skywalker makes ZERO sense because Ren won't be seduced by the Light thanks to much weaker familial bond and love than father-son. This is re-telling of Anakin story by giving him sort of a second chance through his grandson.

Padme's love couldn't pull Anakin out of the darkness because there was a fundamental problem - they were living a lie. Padme said it herself, that lie would destroy them and it did. if she lived than she would fight and eventually brought him back. But she didn't fight because lie destroyed her. Just like she said. So Anakin had nothing to hold onto to pull him towards the Light and he sunk into the depths of darkness like a stone. Until one day, some 20 years later, a young lad of the same age Anakin was when he experienced the happiest day of his life (Padme's pregnancy) came along and turned out to be his son, what has left of his beloved Padme and the time when Anakin was good and happy. In short, no negative baggage with Luke (no lies, no hiding) just unconditional love. He sees himself in Luke and Luke's compassion ignites his and pulls him towards the Light.

Now, what happened with Anakin's grandson is the opposite. Ben's family couldn't pull him towards the Light because there was a fundamental problem - for reasons that aren't completely disclosed to us, Ben felt abandoned by them and there was lingering resentment for his father ("weak and foolish" "would have disappointed you") and and vice versa ("There's too much Vader in him"). So familial love couldn't save Kylo because it was tainted, just like romantic love couldn't save Anakin because it was tainted too. But along comes a girl who's young, beautiful, strong, very lonely, and a FS herself. And Ben empathizes with her at first but that grows into compassion and love. So in a reversal, romantic love isn't tainted and therefore is able to seduce Ben to the Light. Opposite of Anakin's case where untainted familial love broke the Dark spell.

For these reasons alone, that this is a reversal of Anakin arc, that weaker familial bond wouldn't make any sense as a catalyst for redemption where stronger bond failed, Rey is not a Skywalker and she and Ben are not cousins. Now, some will say "well, that all hangs on redemption arc". Yeah, and Rey is totally going to kill unrepentant blood relative after being disgusted that he killed another? Riiight. Redemption is happening whether they are related or not and they are not related. So that's that.

AnneNeville

That just makes "you are so lonely, so unable to leave. At night, desperate to sleep, you imagine an ocean. I see it. Iiii see an island" line even more poignant and significant. He sees himself in her because he's so lonely too. He imagines his grandfather, she imagines an island in the ocean. Both are unable to leave their present state. Also, nobody has seen her so deeply and intimately like he did and nobody has seen him so deeply and intimately like she did ("you...you are afraid...that you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader.") Basically, she saw the moment when he prayed to Vader, his own moment of "so lonely" and desperation. This is the most fascinating relationship in all 7 movies bar none.

 

Even Prince Phillip's horse knows the look (not to mention the Prince himself):

 

Couldn't agree more with you guys...couldn't agree more!

 

We are the inner dark-disciples circle....who wants to join...mwahahaha?

 

Even though it's clear by the end of TFA that Kylo feels something for Rey, to most of us on this thread anyway, it's probably not at all clear to him. We already know he's not the best at dealing with his emotions, haha. As others have said, he will probably try very hard to fight it, deny it to Snoke, etc. Perhaps they'll even have an alternative to the 'compassion' scene that ended up being removed from the final cut. What I'm hoping for is a real exploration of a force bond, if that is what's happened. It would be really cool to see Rey and Kylo dreaming of each other, maybe catching glimpses of each other's childhoods, inner feelings, etc. The only way to really move forward is for Ren to be humanized for Rey, probably in a combination of hearing about Ben from Luke and Leia, and seeing him in an act of real goodness.

 

Hahaha, that's so funny, Samson was his name? I can't remember haha

 

I do occasionally wonder if the Vader mask ever answered back and I don't mean physically, but Kylo's wording implies that something associated with the mask had spoken to him, but what, who or how are not seen!

I like to think that Kylo and Rey are almost like kindred spirits - if you go by this definition:

Kindred Spirits are two people that make a special connection by sharing a bond that has joined them by the means of an experience that has drawn them together on a higher level of consciousness. This connection can be from the same experience at the same time or two separate experiences similar in nature.

Awwww Mark Hamill liked a tweet I posted of hand from Addams Family

 

AnneNeville


I guess it isn't surprising that many viewers are reading the film differently from romance readers. The tropes are recognizable if you have frequently encountered them before, but Star Wars' genre doesn't generally use them. Nor do most popular fictions that court male viewers and the GA (because in the past, those two groups have been treated as the same).[/quote]

And now we have come to the heart of the problem! A good problem to have as far as I am concerned because this is the Star Wars I want and wanted to see. The minute Ren met Rey in the Takodana Forest, I was like DAMN this is my STAR WARS! Hades & Persephone OH YEAH! I have always loved Star Wars and Sci Fi, and I have always loved my romance novels and daytime soaps. And, BAM! I knew I was about to get my OTP my perfect match. I almost weeped in my seat. Then Ren took off his mask to reveal the PERFECT Byronic hero straight outta Jane Austen, and the splat you heard was me passing out on the floor. However, my geeky side came back full force when immediately after the movie I realized that Ben/Kylo Ren was the Anakin that should have been in the PT and that Reylo, where on a reverse course of Anidala.

In all honesty, as much as I loved TFA, Ren & Rey. I think there is something deeply problematic in having the main protagonist Rey be such a mystery box. Who is she? Who Rey is related to is all important in a Star Wars universe ( sorry Rey Random fans) but Bloodlines convey many things that you need to know about a character and who they will become, it is short hand. Without knowing her background about who and why she was abandoned on Jakku It is hard for me to project her into the future, so the movie makes up for that by making her visions about Kylo Ren, and as much as I love romance and all that. I still want to know more about Rey and why I should identify with her. Did we even get a chance to understand or see from Rey why she would want to become a Jedi? Train with Luke? Why not go look for her family now that she has a ship? I would have liked more from her. JJ you are not slick.

Then giving Rey the Patina ( but not substance) of a Skwalker is a red herring ( bait) that many have taken too like the Holy Grail. Coupled with JJ's style of break neck speed story telling and lack of exposition to supposedly leave many channels or avenues for plots and characters to turn. When in fact the actual truth is there will be nothing revolutionary or plot twist NEVER seen in PT or the OT before, or otherwise familiar trope from Fairy Tales & Romance. Don't let JJ fool you. TFA is NOT a one off film. It is the third act in a series of well established trilogies.

LF & Disney will have to do audience prep, and it has already started as far as I am concerned. Well chosen leaks ( Space Horse) Disney redemption tweets. I also believe that TFA is a cake that needs time to bake, once the DVD comes out and more people can see it in repeat viewings many will catch on to the subtext. ( I hope)