ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Yeah, I mentioned the apparently open restraint some time ago. Don't know what that is about. Perhaps this photo was shot during rehearsal and is not a still? Or is the ankle restraint open in the movie, too?

FrolickingFizzgig I won't feel sorry for Driver, because the more people argue about his character the better for him.

 

Agree completely! It would be a lot more tragic if @panki's scenario (Option #1) would happen. It doesn't wash his hands clean of the crime like my head canon of Ren being framed for killing the Jedi (although this may be what Safe!Disney does for a more redeemable Ren, and I'd be fine with that too). But Ren being attacked by the young padawans and killing them with his superior force powers and skills and darkside power out of necessity and self defense would be a lot more epic. It also makes sense with Luke not being there to stop it and leads to Luke trying to look for answers in the Gray Jedi to prevent tragedies like this from occurring. It ties in with Bloodlines and the whole Leia being viewed as a traitor and Ben feeling betrayed by the knowledge of Anakin being Vader and Han hoping Ben would forgive him. Also could tie into @Sforza's post about a young Republic pilot (90% sure its Ben) staring up into the stars and thats how he got the pikoting skills we will see later and how he finds out about the betrayal later than originally thought. Would also explain Poe being so staunchly on Leia's side and the off-shoot of the Resistance to the Republic. Could the plants be some KOR? I seriously hope they go this route. Excellent speculations, as usual, here in the Reylo thread!

 

What's interesting about this though is this question: Is Pablo saying that we actually already know Rey's mother? Have we met her? Honestly, there's no woman in the Star Wars franchise outside of Leia that would be age appropriate. Nobody! There's Phasma, but she's even a bit young. I'm not saying it is Leia obviously - just trying to read between the lines and coming up empty.

Is he saying we've already met her father as well (god forbid!!!) ?

 

Anidala where married. Leia & Han where madly in love and had a solid relationship, and I am sure where married before little Benny took his first breath. That does not equal Luke having a one night stand, or whatever the Rey Skywalker Birthers are proposing as a likely scenario.

 

Choice of shot is essential when it comes to what you are trying to say in a scene. The slow zoom in during the interrogation is done to show you his emotions and also suggest a kind of "hmm what's going on here" moment to the audience, like you are invited to see something rey cannot see. The zoom suggests that it's getting more and more intimate, which it does he starts to look at her lips and face and neck just as it becomes a close up and JJ did not want you to miss it, that's why it's there lol

Also the dialogue as he's looking at her features, he's talking about a beautiful island, he's also looking at her beauty

"I see it, iiii see the island"

 

FrolickingFizzgig

This is important. This mix of emotions led to the infamous "you are a monstah" because that's what monstah is - simultaneously frightening and intriguing, repulsive and attractive, sympathetic and pathetic, you can't avert your eyes even if you want. So reaction is confusion with several other emotions rolled into it (rage, curiosity, terror, pity, etc).

However, monstah isn't a role. It's a description like scoundrel, but not a role. Kylo Ren does not have a defined role in Rey's life yet because he confuses her. He's an enigma, a mystery, an unknown, so she didn't give him a definite role in her life like she gave Han and Finn.

Han's role in Rey's life is a father. Kylo verbalized Rey's thoughts as "father you've never had." Kind, understanding elderly man with strong protective instinct who gives both praise and rebuke when deserved fills the role of a father.

Finn's role in Rey's life is a friend. Rey verbalized it in "Thank you, my friend." Young man about the same age, easy going with whom she clicked right away without any tension and discomfort, who she can count on, fill the role of a friend.

Those are two human roles - my father, my friend - and they are very likely definite, final.

But Kylo doesn't have a human description let alone a role because his role is going to be defined when Rey's confused feelings get more concrete shape. Which is why thsi relationship is so interesting to watch. She could have given him the role of an enemy - my enemy - but she didn't. He is her monstah - my monstah - because she doesn't know what to make of him and, more importantly of her feelings. As we saw when the ground opened, she wanted to run away from him and go to him, hence looking at him over the chasm longer than necessary.

But whatever the role he gets, it won't be a cousin.

 

Back to my old issue of Empire - January 2016 just to share some more nuggets of info straight from the people who made the film.

J.J. is talking about movies he watched before working on TFA:

Before he started The Force Awakens, Abrams watched some movies. No, not those ones. Other ones. He looked at "the confidence" of John Ford Westerns. He took in the "unbelievable scene choreography and composition" of Kurosawa's High And Low. And he studied "the powerful stillness" of Terrence Malick. 'It's not something I would normally have thought of coming to Star Wars.' he says. The spare visual style of Ford, Kurosawa and Malick points to a key mandate for Abrams' approach to Episode VII: the distinctive less-is-more quality of the originals. 'I just remember leaving the theatre wanting to know more.' says Bryan Burk, Abrams' producing partner at Bad Robot. 'There were so many things hinted at that implied a much bigger world than you actually saw. Who is Jabba the Hutt? Where is Tosche Station? I love that experience of wanting to lean in and ask more.'

It then talks about production and moves onto the lightsaber battle between Finn and Ren:

'When you look at Star Wars and Empire, they are very different lightsaber battles, but for me they felt more powerful because they were not quite as slick. I was hoping to go for something much more primitive, aggressive and rougher, a throwback to the kind of heart-stopping lightsaber fights I remember being so enthralled by as a kid.'

Then it moves onto the villain:

And how do you stand toe-to-toe with the greatest villain in movie history? You make your villain, Kylo Ren, a Darth Vader fanboy h***-bent on taking over the Sith's shift. 'You can't top Darth Vader as a bad guy in design or performance,' Abrams admits. 'Because we needed to have a bad gut, the idea of naming Vader in association with him allowed us to harness the power of Vader in a way that felt appropriate and powerful. It allowed Vader to be part of the conversation rather than a separate one. It imbues Kylo with a special kind of darkness.'

 

This is the Pablo gif you are looking for



the best part was that this was in response to the question "are Sabine and Ezra Rey's parents?"

 

Darth Basin
You're never going to win with this one because Star Wars—the film series—would not allow what you're proposing. Ever. Not only does it go against the genre and target-audience completely, it betrays who Luke Skywalker really is. Luke was the hero, Anakin's son, the young man who—alongside his family and friends—helped to bring peace to the galaxy. Luke is a wise, soulful man who values family and love and compassion, and who would never give up on anybody. He went to the ends of the earth to save his murderous, Sith-lord of a father, and he succeeded because he appealed to the Light that still existed within the shell of Anakin Skywalker.

Not only would affairs or one-night-stands never even be alluded to in a children's coming-of-age fantasy in regards to the old hero's potential creation of the legacy heroine, no writer would ever slander Luke Skywalker's character by creating such a stupid plot-point. Because that's what it is. Stupid, specifically in the context of Star Wars as a larger-than-life children's coming-of-age fantasy franchise.

Here's a show I think you'd like:

 

I think he just means that it's a stretch. Based on what evidence do people think this character is Rey's mother? On the fact that she is the right age? Ok. Do we have any proof she has ever had children? In the Rey Skywalker theory, do we know if she ver meets Luke?

I think people want her to be the mother to answer to those questions people ask, like, ok, if Luke had a daughter, who is the mother? And they think the protagonist of a SW movie could fit the role of Skymom. I think it also has to do with a certain fantasy about Luke having a badass girlfriend or wife, from all the fans who liked Mara Jade. Felicity Jones' character is pretty and badass, so it would fulfill that role. But yeah, it is based on 0 information, 0 evidence, 0 anything.

I don't think Pablo is implying we necessarily know Rey's mom, just that, to make parentage theories, we need something to base them on.

 

Thanks for setting me straight - you made me feel a whole lot better!

 

Yeah, I was talking about the moment she takes the lightsaber from him, but you're right about the interrogation scene as well. It's almost a 2D shot, how close he is to her when he's hovering over her mind. I love that someone pointed out that for a split second their profiles line up like an "almost kiss". Also, whenever I think about reading too much into his facial expressions there, I remember that they could've filmed the scene with his mask on but no, they specifically wanted us to see his eyes travel all over her. And Driver is such a good actor if JJ was like "look at her like she's a piece of trash" vs "look at her like she's a pot of gold" that he would've been able to accomplish either. He can do what they ask, that's why they got him...guess they asked for the latter

 

I don't think Pablo Hidalgo meant to imply that we've already met Rey's parents, just that some fans are desperate to make any connection fit.

I venture into the Rey parentage thread from time to time, but most of the Rey Skywalker "evidence" reminds me of those shaky films that are supposed to prove the existence of Bigfoot! It's like, well, if you squint a bit and ignore all logic and reason, you will see Rey is absolutely Luke's daughter! I'm not even joking because that's the general tone of the majority of posters in favour of Rey Skywalker.

Go to the Kylo redemption thread and those against will say there's no time for a decent redemption arc to be done in the next two movies. There's no room for another big bad etc etc. Argue with people who don't want Reylo or FinnRey or any romance for that matter, and they'll say there's no time for a love story in this trilogy. Debate with the Rey Skywalker believers and they will allow for any number of convoluted plot strands to justify what they want. Either that, or they say that Rey's mother can be dismissed with a couple of lines of dialogue saying she ran off with Rey, abandoned her on Jakku and then died... Seriously, this option was put to me as a solution to the problem of tarnishing Luke. It beggars belief that people who've presumably watched all 7 Star Wars movies can come up with such clap trap!

 

Pablo is saying that we don't know a thing about Jones character so it's a huge stretch to assume she's Rey's mother. Both parts of the answer - we know nothing about Jones's character and huge stretch to make assumptions are correct.

People assume she's the mother because same timeline when Luke was young and MCU crossovers various movies so why would SW be different? Even if it's different (no shared universe).

 

Well, she is female. That's apparently all the necessary requirements needed...ugh...

Also there is the slight problem of timeline. FJ is in her early thirties, but looks like she can play at the youngest 25. So say she is 25 to Luke's 19 circa ANH, not that bad of an age gap. But Rey is born 10 years after Endor, Luke would be about 34. FJ character is at the youngest 40 at that time likely older. I don't want to get into real life child bearing age issues, but it is something usually avoided outright in a story.

 

I mentioned earlier that this week it was light saber poses.

Last week it was Ren giving his lightsaber to Han, and Rey giving her lightsaber to Luke.

I laughed at the latter. If Ren gave his lightsaber to Han, Han would still be alive!!!! If they're looking for parallels, this one's not it.

 

There is something absolutely wrong for a potential Rey&Finn romance and it is that she forgave his lies so easily. Even in cheesy rom coms the girl gets so mad at the guy when she catches him in a lie. We have seen this ad nauseum in movies. If she was interested in him romantically she wouldn't have taken it so lightly. She would have said he should have trusted her and so on, or complained that he hadn't been honest. This is always a source of conflict in stories, when there is a lie trust is damaged at least for a while. But she didn't care, so she doesn't see him that way.

Even in real life we value honesty above other things in a partner and we don't expect the same degree of sincerity from other type of relations we have. Anyway, this is a movie and she would have been angry if she was into him, even though she forgave him later. This is how movies work, what the audience expects from a couple. A slip in honesty leads to temporal conflict if romance is involved.

And Kylo? Honest to a fault, he opens up to her and gets his face sliced for taking the risk to come up to her after what she saw him do to Han and Finn. He offered himself to her. There's no way he can fall any lower in her eyes but he hides nothing. Of course he pays the price for unmasking both literally and figuratevely for her but this may be a clue that he will reach her heart. Everything she gets to know from him from now on will probably improve what she thought of him then.

 

Guys, Bigfoot Rey Skywalker evidence right here. Undeniable proof.



Because you know, the legacy anti-villain being attracted to the heroine in some way doesn't completely debunk Rey Skywalker in the context of Star Wars as a children's coming-of-age fantasy where no writer would ever create that kind of dynamic in a million years. Or Maz's speech.

I guess we should add some "Reylo" bias here because we certainly have our own perceptions that are deeply ingrained. Argue with a "Reylo" fan and they'll give you hard textual evidence founded in narrative and character deconstruction, music and film analysis and genre-specific motifs all pointing in a specific direction. They won't tell you that their interpretations are infallible, just that they are based on the assumption that the writers behind this Trilogy are competent, that they know where they want to go and how they intend to get there. They will also show you numerous detailed analyses and ridiculously long essays focusing on illustrating just why the topic of this thread is so controversial (because there's a very good chance we're looking in the right direction, as the text itself backs us up).

We also overanalyze because we actually have things to overanalyze.

 

Have any of the threads covered the similarities between Rey's clothes and Luke's?? You know what with them both being light colours - so they must be related??!!!

But on that note I did see something on tumblr (can't seem to find it now) that showed that Rey and Kylo's costumes are very similar - the arms wrappings and the use of four long pieces of material - two at the front and two at the back that hang down.

Anyway he's a drawing I found during my search which I think is kinda cute:



credit to the artist (can't quite make it out?!)

 

Acting and oratory has long broken down and categorized expression and movement in order to tell stories. Nowadays, a more naturalistic style of acting (acting that doesn't look like acting) is favored, but in the past often a what was considered good performance took an understanding of basic human behavior (and our readings of movement and expression) and systematized them, taking them farther away from reality. That means you got things like the Delsarte system in the 19th century, which dissects position of the eye (see "astonishment"):



Or the Delsarte-based photos from The Popular Entertainer and Self-Instructor in Elocution (see here: https://brblroom26.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/oratorical-gestures/). This ("supplication") reminds me of Kylo speaking to Snoke after Hux walks in:

 

Reynak I don't take Finn's lies against him because a) they aren't malicious and b) they are the most interesting thing about him. His lies are the most consistent part of his characterization like Kylo's projection of his feelings and wants onto other people ("Traitor!" and "Han Solo can't save you" are examples of talking about HIMSELF while "We have all we need" is an example of talking about what HE needs).

That said, only reason why Rey wasn't angry at him is because nobody cared about that subplot that went nowhere. The idea was to get her to meet Kylo alone, so they came up with the lamest excuse for Finn to step aside. That's all that is. A plot device.

FrolickingFizzgig Dat Bigfoot post

 

On the similar clothes we discussed at length in the beginning of the thread.



Note the similar masks, the fact that she also has a scarf type thing and hood, and gloves, that they both wear boots. The armbands are obviously similar, but there's more. Both wear belts, except hers are thinned.

His clothes look harder, thicker while hers are lighter and more flowing. Both have robes (or robe looking things whatever Rey is wearing) over pants.

Lots and lots of similar details.

 

I disagree on this slightly. It does serve to compare Finn to Ren, and where Finn lied, Ren never does - he is always truthful with her from beginning to end, much to his own detriment.

No, we don't hold Finn's lies against him because they were indeed out of necessity. He needed help in a desperate way and he wasn't about to tell a girl he just met he was a defected storm trooper.

That said, it does highlight the forgiving nature of Rey's personality. It literally took her less than five seconds to ponder it and never think about it again. I'm sure this aspect will come into play with her later interactions with Ben Solo.

 

Rest assured Penny Crayon when it comes to finding "evidence" for Rey Skwalker, no stone has been left unturned!

There's comparisons of Daisy Ridley to Shmi, Padme, Leia, young Luke, Anakin, and my personal favourite, face morphs of Daisy Ridley and Felicity Jones. Maybe Star Wars likes casting pretty brunettes in its lead female roles. Maybe they were the best actors for the job (most likely, I should think). But no, it's because in Star Wars world they must all be related! (Let's forget that young Mark Hamill had blond hair and has blue eyes, which Daisy Ridley totally doesn't).

 

Yea both moments have a zoom in, you don't zoom unless you are deliberately trying to draw focus to a subject, if it's an object or a persons' emotions, the zoom is there to make you notice it. It is also used for dramatic impact, highlighting important things/emotions

Like jaws, a fast zoom shows fear, slow zoom is meant to be used for revealing something or in romance