ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

I'm not a fan of Girls but I know the main characters and know about the recent Adam/Jessa thing, which I find interesting. The whole we can't be together thing I guess lol. I was actually confused because I thought Jessa looked like Adam's wife! They have a resemblance...

 

The figure of an enchanted forest was taken up into chivalric romances; the knight-errant would wander in a trackless forest in search of adventure.[24] As in the fairy tales, he could easily find marvels that would be disbelieved closer to home. John Milton wrote in Paradise Regained (Bk ii. 359) of

Fairy damsels met in forest wide​

By knights of Logres, or of Lyones, ​

WE REACHED 800!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Diddy Minty Difference between Bethyl and Reylo is that Bethyl ship was hinted at so her death would shock people. Like, let them think something is going on so they won't see her death coming. It was unfair to the core but they got the desired effect. Even though you know that when background character starts getting tons of screen time, he/she is on a death row.It's one of big TWD cliches.

Rey and Kylo are major characters so neither's going to be offed any time soon.

Little_Boots I still see 799?

 

800!

Look at how far we've come

 

800 woohooo!!!!!!!!

 

800... I'm broverwhelmed right now.

 

Huzzah! 800 pages! Congrats, guys!

I won't speak to PotC couples because I never got into that, but I completely agree with what you're saying here about fictional couples in general. Characters have different dynamics with each other, some are low key and some are dramatic and conflicted, and both dynamics can work, though in different ways. Still, there are required elements to make a ship seaworthy, so to speak. My problem with Rey's pairing with non-Kylo characters in the ST is the lack of tension and the lack of obstacles, as you pointed out.

Finn and Rey had a bit of tension in the beginning, and there was a potential obstacle in Finn's insincerity and duality when he presented himself under a false identity. But that was resolved very neatly halfway through episode VII, and by the end they were so very much on the same page that tension was zapped completely from their relationship. Finn and Rey felt more like siblings to me towards the end of TFA. In the future there are ways to insert obstacles between Finn and Rey (for example, if Rey goes full blown dark side) but that initial spark is just gone.

(A bit of a tangent: in my opinion, Finn and Poe have a better potential as a couple from this tension/obstacle angle because they already have that spark of chemistry and it was Poe who killed Finn's stormie buddy in TFA. Finn doesn't seem to be aware of that, and although I can't think of how he'd find out, it is possible that he will in the future. Anyway, to me it is a foregone conclusion that in the unlikely event that Finn and Poe are made a canon couple, unfortunately we will not see anything overt play out between them. I don't think Disney would take that risk, and I also don't think there's time to explore all of these secondary relationships in depth.)

Anyway, Kylo Ren and Rey obviously have tension and obstacles in spades, which I think is part of the reason why a lot of us have zeroed in on them as the couple with the most potential in TFA. Another thing to consider is something you mentioned in one of your posts way back when, Force22 that successful couples in fiction often have that "dazzle moment". Finn and Poe are dazzled by each other in TFA, and I think that is partly why people saw their ship potential ("That's one heck of a pilot!" and "You completed my mission... keep my jacket, it suits you! *lip bite*"

Kylo Ren is completely in awe of Rey at various points during TFA, but especially at the end of the interrogation scene, during the lightsaber pull moment, and after the face slashing. Rey has been clearly affected by Ren's presence in a fearful/angry way at various times, but she's not been "dazzled" at this point, understandably. But that dazzling can happen easily if he does something courageous and heroic should he decide to turn from the dark side. I'm SO hoping to see something like that at some point in the remaining episodes of this trilogy.

Edit:

I agree there was a mini-dazzle moment when Ren unmasked; Rey definitely was affected, but it was so subtle that most of the viewers missed it. We need something super obvious. I don't think Ren dazzled Rey when she picked up the lightsaber. On the contrary, to me he seemed so overcome by admiration for her that he might as well have keeled over. She was the clear dazzler there, imo.

I'm also not into Girls, but if Adam Driver's character is going to have Kylo Ren hair in the last season I may just may have to start watching. u_u
Also, it's been super highly recommended here and I trust your collective judgment. Most of the time.

 

It's alright. That was a long time ago. Lol.

I guess we were on different sides of the fence as when I lurked (wasnt active in the forums) during those days... Emily Kinney..not just Beth the character, but also the actress was being attacked... Same as what you describe happened to M. McBride. I personally think those two women are wonderful...But shippers were a nasty bunch.

I actually was a casual TWD fan myself... But what strung me along was Beth and Daryl's episode and the following episode in the morgue.

Just the two of them.

I agree that there wasn't anything romantic between them ...There may not have been romantic feelings (Yes they were NOT in love), but they were packaged as 'something'... They also had a bridal carry scene of their own..and the forum i lurked in over analyzed that scene just as much as we do here with the Reylo bridal carry.

The age gap was heavily scrutinized also. Beth being 18 and Daryl most likely late 30s-early 40s.

As much as anyone will be loath to admit, to me these are similarities to Reylo... yes superficial i know.. also that they are also both really unexpected.

Bethyl to me is like an Apocalyptic version of Blue Lagoon in the fact that they are the only two people left. Beth was hopeful to find the others, Daryl was already demoralized, but it doesnt remove the intimacy created by having to possible live with each other for the rest of their lives should they be alone together forever.

Their two episodes was a taste for what could never be in the ZA. They were doomed to fail to survive together... ZA wont allow it. It was the honey before the hatchet... When you thought something nice can happen to these people, the universe rips it away.

Beth's death to me was poignant and was not done as a way to slight Bethyl fans... I took it as it is...I did mourn the character... But also what she represented..which was Hope for the past that was lost. Beth hoped that everything will return to normal. Daryl helped her accept the reality of the ZA, but she clung to her positivity which in turn affected his character. Beth's death was the possibly the darkest moment of TWD as it represents the end of the normal life as they had known...

It was never about Bethyl becoming endgame. But to me whether romantic or not. Their shared intimacy in those two episodes alone are Bethyl canon enough to me.

Honestly, TWD is not a series if anybody wants to ship anyone... Richonne just happened. (yeeeeessss!!!) But now I fear for them... Rick isnt lucky with women...Michonne isnt an exception at all...

But i just wanna return to the point that Bethyl and Reylo are similar to the fact that they are totally left field...unexpected.... and obviously very popular with haters. Lol

 

In celebration of 800!

 

Those shades are pretty brotacular! I will have good style in my brolder years!

 

Dat gif!

Rei of Sunshine No worries about Richonne. Michonne isn't expendable. She's the samurai, one of TWD icons.

rowan_greenleaf

They are dazzled when she picks up the saber and she is dazzled when he unmasks. But saber picking is crucial because it's the dazzler scene of the entire movie, they are dazzled and most importantly they are ALONE. Finn is neutralized at this point (coma) so they are alone in their own world and in the scene that is pivotal for the whole series. Which makes them pivotal players for the whole series, no matter how much nostalgia is milked with "where's Luke?" It's Rey and Kylo against the crumbling universe.

 

Has anyone here watched Sense8? It's on Netflix. If you like the force bond theory, it is about people who are connected through their minds and they can communicate and appear to other sensates through their connection. I love it. It has a little bit of everything, and it's by the Wachowskis. Some of the sensates fall in love with each other and the stories are amazing. It also has main and well-written LGBT characters. If the force bond happens, it would be cool if it played out like it does in the show.

warning: there is a lot of sex (including an orgy), nudity (male&female) and violence in it.

 

I thought this was fitting seeing as how the whole Kylo virginity was talked about. We have no doubt in this movie

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/first-look-liam-neeson-martin-scorsese-silence/

Adapted by Gangs Of New York’s Jay Cocks from Shûsaku Endô’s novel, Silence has been a passion project of the director’s for years. It follows two Jesuit priests – Garfield and Adam Driver – who go looking for their mentor (Neeson) in 17th century Nagasaki, Japan, and encounter violent persecution.
..... The rigors of the characters meant the cast had to lose weight for their roles, which they all, according to Neeson, embraced. “Martin wanted us all to look a bit more gaunt, which Adam and Andrew did as well. I know Adam went to the extreme. He’s an ex marine and when he’s given an order, he follows it through. He was like something out of Auschwitz. Martin requires this level of dedication and I think it pays off.”
So Adam's playing a jesuit priest, alongside Andrew Garfield and Liam Neeson.
Kylo Ren and Qui Gon Jinn meet!

 

Thank you for your very well written and argued post r.e Bethyl Rei of Sunshine I do actually agree with much of what you said. Personally, I loved the character of Beth and Emily Kinney is such a darling, I don't know how anyone could dislike her. I was sad to see Beth killed off, but part of my annoyance over Bethyl was how her death got overshadowed by that whole thing as if she only had any significance in relation to Daryl. In the end, it was what it was. I guess I'm also irrationally irked by all the "if Daryl dies we riot," stuff, but that's a whole other story!

 

Did anyone else notice that when Kylo is reading Reys mind, he's freakin HUGE next to her! Like she's so tiny on that table when he stands up.

 

Seriously can't believe this thing has reached 800 in less than 3 months! Hooray! We've discussed and shared so much awesome stuff and tons of interesting theories that I'm kind of curious to go back and read over everything from the beginning, but I feel like I'd have to pace myself and do it perhaps by limiting myself to rereading 20 pages a day.....

 

In celebration of 800:




From here: http://littlebird92.tumblr.com/post/140250279559/pandanoi-were-not-talking-enough-about-this

That costume though . . . I just . . .

 

I agree with most of this, but here's the thing... there is overanalyzing (which some people here do) and then there is underanalyzing... not technically a word, but I'm going to use it anyway because it speaks volumes. Narrative interpretation based on facts—which is exactly what I do—is not projection. It does not rely on imagining events that didn't happen on-screen. Hundreds of university programs are founded on the principals of artistic expression and interpretation. It's an intellectual subject as valid as any other. Art is just another facet of the human condition that is worth exploring from the perspective of both audience and creator. Film is an art form that is meant to be analyzed, critiqued and broken apart. Artists, regardless of what medium they ascribe to—writing, filmmaking, painting—all weave artistic decisions into every aspect of their creation. The writers were not subtle about Ren's fixation on Rey. It's 100% canon as far as I'm concerned. I'm not "projecting" anything.

I don't think subtext means what you think it means. It's simply a distinct "underlying" theme in a work of fiction, one that is not overtly promoted. The interrogation was absolutely brimming with subtext, from the dialogue to the acting to the music to the mise-en-scene (the light shining down on Rey, the position of the chair, Ren's childlike crouch). Those were all creative decisions made by the auteur. They were intentional, and they were meant to push a very specific interpretation. How you could insinuate that others are "projecting" that interpretation is beyond me. It's all there in the movie, whether you choose see it or not.

Now, this does not mean Ren was portraying sexual immorality, because he most certainly wasn't. I agree, he liked something about Rey. He had a strange way of showing it, but his interest in her did not come from a dark, twisted place. He was curious about her. He wanted to know more. He went after her personal thoughts before even trying to seek out the map, he tried to talk to her even. He took off his mask for her, placing himself in a position of vulnerability in front of another character for the very first time in the film (previously, he had only expressed his true sentiments with Vader's mask). He went on to use the famous line, but he wasn't threatening her physically... absolutely not. That betrays the genre and target-audience. However, there was a real mental threat there, and I can't deny that a comparison can be made (as Abrams himself said). Does it carry the same baggage? No. Is it PG-13 appropriate? Absolutely. Is Ren rapey? Of course not. Does that mean the metaphor isn't still there? Well, no. It's still there (check citation below). Again, the scene was about power in all its forms... take from that what you will.

As for the battle, I agree. However, I think you're missing something. Ren was unraveling emotionally, mentally and physically. He had thought killing Han would eradicate the pull to the Light, but instead he was left "horrified", "weakened" and "shocked" (terms from the script). He immediately regretted his actions, and he showed his grief in a strange—but very telling—way. Anger, frustration and utter masochism. He was shot by the bowcaster, Starkiller base was about to start collapsing, yet he chose to follow Rey and Finn. He screamed the word "TRAITOR" at Finn, expressing that "Han Solo couldn't save him." Why would he say that? Well, because he was talking about himself. He was the traitor who could not be saved. He was beating his own wounds physically and metaphorically. He punished Finn (the "traitor), but when Rey snatched that saber, everything changed. Ren is a character who has little control over his emotions or base instincts (just look to the movie for evidence). He does what he does, no thought of the consequences. His request to teach Rey was yet another example of this—Ren betrayed himself for a moment, betrayed Snoke, betrayed everything. He didn't offer to show her the ways of the "Dark Side", he didn't offer to have Snoke teach her... he said "I can show you the ways of the Force."

This is the level of character interpretation I consider to be absolutely riveting, and no, I'm not projecting. As an audience we're meant to pick up on this artistic decisions, question them even. Everything I just described is supported by the events of the movie. Dialogue is important, acting is important, music is important, writing is important, metaphor is important, symbolism is important, foreshadowing is important... and none of it is "accidental" or "unintentional."

Abrams acknowledged the metaphor off-the-record in a conversation with two film reviewers. It wasn't from an actual interview, but it's interesting nonetheless. I don't disagree with him either, the scene broached a taboo subject in a seemingly harmless way, and because of that it was far from simple. Ren entered her mind without consent, but it was not in itself sexual. That said, we as an audience were meant to recognize metaphor at play: https://www.facebook.com/ashleycohagan/posts/10101640869471608

 

AnneNeville

Valency Jane

When you put it into perspective, it's truly insane! Only 3 months. Reylo was born on December 18. It began as a trash ship but it soon became obvious that it was no trash ship at all but a major, legit one. And look at us now! So many amazing metas, fanarts, discussions. Best ship and fandom ever to me anyway.

 

I NEED THOSE EXPOSED ABS IN EP VIII

Diddy Minty
Thanks also for listening haha. I actually was quite annoyed with Beth with what little i saw of her since S2! We have opposing views on these topics. lol! When Daryl ran off into the woods with her at S4 mid season finale I was sorta irked, thinking she'll get him killed definitely...

If there was any romantic thing going on in Bethyl...it wasnt between their interactions ...it was the IDEA of them together... I squinted a lot rewatching those episodes...They can come off romantic, brotherly, father-daughter, friends... anything!
But the idea that they could be the only 2 people left in the world was indeed kind of romantic that I know a lot of Bethyl fans latched on and misinterpreted.

 

FrolickingFizzgig Bravo, I endorse your post.

 

800 pages it's amazing how far this thread has come!

 

Wonder if anyone in TPTB ever stop by in these threads... What would they think about all the analyses invested here. I would bet atleast 1 person in production lurks here. hahaha

 

Denying narrative and character analysis is like heralding the death of art, honestly.

 

I consider that possibility every morning, haha....that what I think/know I saw, Rey/Ren chemistry pretty much exists only in my head and that it will not be pursued on screen any further....specially when I talk to pipl at work about TFA...they all, and I mean ALL (not just the men, but mostly men) think that Rey is a Skywalker. ..blah....that she will SAVE the galaxy by DESTROYING the FO along with that "creep" Kylo Ren....blah...blah...and all will live happily ever after she restores the chaste Jedi Order with her being their monk queen....blah...blah....even the women think that...with few exceptions who think Ren is hot but will die, cuz, you know he's evil...blah....

My faith is only restored in this thread....so thank you'all...not just for the insights, but for the perpetous source of AD naked gifs.....hahaha....