ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

I can only agree with the exception that I can't consider him an example of butterface because I like his face very much and the more I look at it the more interesting I find it, interesting and sexy.I can't see his face as average or below average, really, although this depends on one's taste, for sure. I said the same as you in another post, that we are too conditioned by what the media dictates as standard good looks and he doesn't fit that model, which doesn't mean he is unattractive.

 

I think Snoke knew exactly what was going on, though - at least in the book he did. In the novelisations Snoke calls Ren out on his weakness and when he tells him to bring the girl, he says it's because Ren needs a "reminder" of the dark side. It sounds ominous.

By the way, that conversation in the novel versions is what makes me believe that this is totally supposed to be fairy-tale love at first sight on Ren's part. Of course it's unrealistic that he would be "in love" with Rey yet, but I think such fairy-tale love is less about realism and more about fate and magic anyway. I think there's a lot more going on than Ren being sexually attracted on some level and then obsessively infatuated when he desperately asks to be her teacher. Snoke accuses Ren of feeling "compassion" for Rey in the books, and let's not forget that the PT defines compassion as unconditional love. It seems strange to feel unconditional love for a girl who bested you in the interrogation a few moments earlier. And his behaviour in the lightsaber fight makes him look like a man whose feelings are a lot stronger than reluctant attraction towards a Force-sensitive scavenger girl.

Visions could explain it, a Force bond could explain it; but whatever it was that caused it, I think the bond is meant to be strongly romantic from the start. This is why I don't agree with people who define Ren's feelings for Rey as mainly possessive and sexual at this junction. There is some possessiveness going on, certainly, but I think the implication is that there's something a lot softer at the root of his feelings. After all, unconditional love and possessiveness don't really go hand in hand.

 

I still think he looks unusual. I'm from Brazil. Where I'm from, not a lot of people have this type of black hair, except when they have some Japanese ancestry. They look awesome, but very different from Adam Driver. I live in Canada now, and there are some people with South Indian ethnicity who have hair kind of like that, but I wouldn't say that's common either. And their hair is straighter.

Where is the place where you can find lots of people that look like Adam Driver? I want to visit there.

 

I think it can be either way y'know... BladenSoul3003 's phoenix post really does go well for Ben/Kylo as the Phoenix is equivalent of Yin

But in a way he can also be a Dragon...

Kylo Ren has this sense of entitlement being the grandson of Vader. He is like the emperors of old who liken themselves to Dragons..and as they believed in the Mandate of Heaven, Kylo believes he is the worthy successor to Vader's legacy.. (See "I will finish what you started" and "that weapon is mine!")

In most cultures...Dragons are seen as prideful and haughty... In Chinese myth, they are symbols for power but can be very destructive also...

And if Kylo is Dragon...Rey also fits very well as the Phoenix

Benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and sincerity are all very Rey aspects

 

So true for the Nordic countries, but there are men like that back home in CRO.... /*waits patiently summer when goes back home


Speksy I like this one:





Edited to ad: Speksy I just saw all of them, the comics....I laughed till I cried...thank you

 

I might as well give my input on this topic since I haven't yet. I'm from America and I think his looks are actually quite unique. But idk I'm from the west coast and he isn't. I didn't know what he looked like before seeing TFA and I thought his face was very unique when I first saw it. I didn't start thinking he was attractive until after looking up more pictures of him. I think his face has to grow on you. Now, however, I think he actually has a very attractive face in addition to his body, personality, intelligence, talents, etc.

I think this tumblr post explains it pretty well: https://arrivedmad.tumblr.com/post/139104396716/adam-drivers-face
it's also kinda funny.

 

Me too, LOL.
There are people with amazing black hair in the South of Europe, where I am from, but his features would be most uncommon here. His hair is especially beautiful, I love the way it flows when he moves, beautiful.

That tumbr post is spot on, I agree. It's a pity Hollowood has forgotten striking unique looks are sometimes far more attractive that too much symetry,just because they catch people's attention, which is specially powerful as regards attraction. Unusual faces grown on you and you never forget them. You may like them or not, but they are recorded in you memory. They are faces you remember.

 

I agree.The thing is that with Kylo we've seen his parents fall in love while with Rey even if she does turn out to be Like's daughter the legacy status she'll be carrying won't be the same.The Star Wars saga wouldn't be the same without Han and Leia and their romance.It would be wonderful if the new trilogy does produce an iconic romance with Kylo and Rey yeh same way they did with. Han and Leia in the OT,the circle will be truly complete if that happens.Imagine re-watching the It seeing the romance between Han and Leia develop an thinking how one day they'll produce one of the most fascinating characters and part of an iconic couple as well as all future Skywalkers coming from their line .It would be so much satisfying than thinking how their son ended up bang an unredeemable monster who got killed in the end.
I honestly can't believe some people want the love between Han and Leia to be remembered like that just so Rey can be Luke's daughter and the heir the Skywalkers deserve.Kylo redeeming himself and Rey being a Skywalker aren't mutually exclusive things but some propel seem to think that the whole purpose for Rey to be Kylo's cousin is for her to kill him.

 

Agreed especially with the bolded. It strikes me as a fairy-tale love at the first sight or even "once upon a dream" if he knew Rey from his vision. Now, I want to say something about the vision. It's noticeable that Vision Ren is aware of Rey and interacts with her while Vision Luke and Vision Young Rey don't. That could be because a) Ren has visions too that include her and is such special FS that even his vision can interact with non-present people or b) because they are future events where Rey is present and thus she took her own spot in the vision. Case in point, SK vision. Rey and Ren were there and Vision Ren interacted with Rey because she occupied the same spot she would several hours later on SK. Likewise, vision of Ren + KoR could be from the future, by the same logic, where Rey will be facing them. hence why Vision Ren was aware of her.


I'd also like FrolickingFizzgig opinion on whether this was supposed to be Ren's fairy-tale love at first sight, since she's the resident expert in fairy-tales.

Reynak

This is the best blog for AD gifs hands down. You won't find a more comprehensive selection anywhere else:

http://hardyness.tumblr.com/

BTW, he makes a fantastic model because he looks different on different photos and that's what they need. he could quit acting and make it big as a male model. transformative look + game for anything. They like models who are up for craziest poses.

 

Croatia....just check out our men´s handball team...that´s just a taste of what´s there


Ha maybe we should market that aspect of our touristic appeal: Visit Croatia: We have tall, dark and handsome here
/note to self: write to Croatian Tourist Association with ideas

 

naaaah. I mean, maybe in northern Europe.
When I saw him in my home town I thought he was italian. His colors and strong features (nose, full lips) are very common here. As a matter of fact he reminds me a couple of guys I know (only one of them is good looking though)
I think that in those pictures of him running he looks more "exotic" than he is.

 

I have seen them play against us, LOL. I'm Spanish. There must be very attractive men in Croatia, very masculine looking.

 

Yes, I was thinking about it a little more, and I came to the conclusion that Rey as Luke's daughter pretty much makes her the daughter of an off screen romance. I know there's more than just the movies, but the movies are the main thing. The ST is a continuation of the PT and OT. Would they just say: "oh, by the way, Luke had this love story some time after the OT, and this is the result, buy the books or comics if you want to know about it", I don't know, it's just... off. I think they want the movies to stand on their own. And, with all due respect to the Rey Kenobi supporters, that theory runs into similar problems.

With Kylo being the Skywalker and being involved in the main romance, everything fits, it follows the steps of his ancestors, it makes a lot more sense.

Finally, I agree Rey could be a Skywalker and Kylo be redeemed. In fact, Rey and Kylo could have an interesting dynamic with a familial bond. It could work, but I don't think that's what TFA gave us. Also, again, lots of people want Rey to be a Skywalker just to write of Kylo as a monster. And that's too simple in terms of storytelling.

And then again, Kasdan's involvement and his love for Han Solo give me a lot of hope that Kylo is destined for a fascinating story.

 

That's one of my favs
aww you're welcome

 

Well Spanish men are not a throwaway, if your handball team is a representative sample...lol...but yeah..ex Yugoslavian men are quite something women too...I think there must be something in the water around here, hahaha

now I´m broverwhemingly homesick

 

Oh my....

He look really dreamy in these! He looks so much younger! From what series/movie was this from? This is almost exactly how he look during the unmasking scene which was totally unexpected.

 

I am an Old School Star Wars fan, I have seen them ALL in the theater on first release. I can't imagine a Star Wars without Romance as a subplot. So when I see fans advocate that, while they have a right to their opinion, I just don't get it.

Here is why (my speculation) they want this ST to have NO ROMANCE. 1. The main protagonist is female. 2. They ( some media critics/nerdboy/) completely missed the romantic CUES already laid out in TFA the foreshadowing went right over their heads. 3. Assuming Rey is a Skywalker/Solo making her related to Ren some would assume now there is no time to establish a romantic arc.

 

Those pics are from Hungry Hearts!

 

Also, this:







Get on Spartacus train if you haven't already. That's Croatian actor Goran Visnic.

 

Well, Rey Solo (as in Han's or Leia's daughter) has been officially debunked. Which is great for me, since I don't mind love between cousins.

But yes, 1. I understand the hesitation in making the female protagonist a love interest. But OTOH most male protagonists have love interests that in any way diminish them. It's a double standard. Of course, writers have to learn how to write women, and give them love stories without ruining them, but it's possible, just deal with female protagonists like male protagonists. No brainer.

2. People missed the cues for sure. Perhaps it might have to do with Finn? By the time Rey meets Kylo, her friendship with Finn and his interest in her have been well established, so it's perhaps hard to understand that the movie throws a curveball. Another reason is that people are expecting Re and Kylo to be related, and read their interactions this way.

3. I don't know, people don't know what to expect of a romantic arc. I think there aren't many good love stories around, and people come up with the worst examples when they think about a love story. And then they say Star Wars is not romance. Helloooooo!

 

Hungry Hearts, 2013 or 2014. I have seen the movie and loved it. He got the best actor's award at Venice Film Festival in 2014 for his role in that movie. He is an amazing actor and his performance in HH is great.
Now here is a treat for you, Adam singing in Italian. He does that in that movie.
It's not a romantic movie, don't let the song deceive you, it's more of a drama or a phsychological thriller.

http://eyesofmist.tumblr.com/post/139503465704/venificas-wookieeleaks-adam-driver-singing

 

They also forget that who is whose love interest is determined by who is the lead. LI is only in relation to the lead. In traditional Hollywood movies, men were leads so women were LI. But when a woman is a lead than man is LI, so romance does not demean the heroine as some think that romance automatically does. It doesn't. In SW terms, since Rey is the lead Kylo would be her LI not the other way around. Rhett and Ashley were Scarlett's LI not the other way around.

 

That's odd. I find him too masculine looking for my taste. I like men that thread the line between masculine and feminine. I don't know, Driver has it with his eyes, thinner jaw, perhaps it's just the hair, I don't know...

Well, Kylo in the unmasking scene is totally feminine. Disney princess! I like that.

 

So many pictures of Kybro! My poor eyes!
I'll fix this by adding a picture of Siri Tachi, the woman that could have been Rey's grandmother:


Any Kybro is alright, if you like 6'4" (189 cm) dudes with dark hair. But women of distinction, like Satine, Bo Katan, Siri Tachi, and Asajj Ventress know that 6' (182 cm) dudes with red hair is the way to go.

 

Well, the rough draft of Part Two is now done. I'll be working on Part Three starting right now... it's going to be something.

The Hero, the Villain and the Modern Fairytale​

Why “Reylo” will be canon in exactly the way you’re hoping​

- Part One: the Fairytale and the Coming-of-Age -​

Not long after The Force Awakens was released an excellent paper was published addressing the potential of Rey and Kylo Ren—the hero and villain of the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy—forging a romantic bond over the course of the narrative. Titled “Death and the Maiden”, the writer, Ohtze, applied Gothic literature tropes and monster-movie iconography to Kylo Ren and Ren’s dynamic in The Force Awakens, highlighting the significance of the infamous “bridal carry”. However, several months have passed since this thesis was penned, and I have decided to analyze The Force Awakens from a different perspective. After all, Star Wars is neither a Gothic tale nor a monster movie. It’s a fairytale, a children’s story.

Why do I say Star Wars is both a fairytale and a children’s story? Well, there are concrete reasons grounded in narrative deconstruction that I will discuss further along in this essay, but first observe these quotes from George Lucas, creator of the Star Wars franchise, JJ Abrams, director of Episode VII and Mark Hamill, actor behind Luke Skywalker.

“The movies are for children but some [fans] don’t want to admit that.”
— George Lucas

“Star Wars is a fairytale. It’s a fantasy. At the heart of Star Wars is that idea of the Force, which is almost the antithesis of Science Fiction. It’s a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.”
—JJ Abrams

“Star Wars is more fairytale than true Science Fiction.”
— Mark Hamill

Obviously Word of God claims Star Wars to be a fairytale, but what exactly makes the franchise a fairytale? The Oxford English dictionary defines a fairytale as “a children’s story about magical and imaginary beings and lands”. In his book On-Fairy-Stories, J.R.R. Tolkien added to this definition, summarizing the fairytale in his own, less linear manner:

"What is a fairy-story? […] Stories that are actually concerned with ‘fairies’, that is with creatures that might also in modern English be called ‘elves’, are relatively rare, and as a rule not very interesting. Most good ‘fairy-stories’ are about the adventures of men in the Perilous Realm or upon its shadowy marches."

As Tolkien notes, the greatest fairytales can follow man or fairy, mundane or fantasy, and are not limited by subgenre. Star Wars happens to fit this definition perfectly. It is about men and knights and princesses and monsters doing battle in the great unknown, in a galaxy far, far away. That does not mean Star Wars is “childish”, just that it was always intended for families to enjoy together, to discuss, share and love as a collective unit. Pixar films are also meant for children, yet they tend to be loved far more by adults. That is because—like Star Wars—they can be enjoyed, deconstructed and analyzed on multiple levels. Star Wars invites all—young and old—to follow the journey of its characters. It is an epic fantasy fairytale in the vain of The Once and Future King, Lord of the Rings, The Wheel of Time, Harry Potter or The Prydain Chronicles, it just happens to be set in space.

But Star Wars isn’t just a fairytale, it’s also a coming-of-age-story. The-coming-of-age is a massive genre of literature and film that details the literal and metaphorical “coming-of-age” of his characters. The genre is summarized in the following quote.

“[The coming-of-age is] all about the protagonist’s journey from being a child to being an adult. It is a journey that takes a young person from naïve to wise, from idealist to realist and from immature to mature. The path of the protagonist, or the main character, can vary from story to story. […] There will usually be pain and suffering along the way—growing up isn’t easy. However, no matter the narrative direction, the result is that the hero grows from his experiences and in some way loses the childhood innocence that helps steer him towards adulthood.”

Not only do coming-of-age-stories not dismiss any subgenre, they leak into all genres as well. Both J.D. Salinger’s Catcher in the Rye and Diana Wynne Jones’ Howl’s Moving Castle are coming-of-age novels, but they couldn’t be more different. Catcher in the Rye follows struggling adolescent Holden Caulfield as he attempts to recapture his foothold on reality after the death of his younger brother through a series of misadventures in 1950’s New York. Howl’s Moving Castle is set in a fantasy realm and details the adventures of Sophie Hatter, a young woman who is transformed into an old hag by a witch’s spell, and who must turn to the heart-eating wizard Howl for help.

These novels share nothing, minus the overarching coming-of-age theme. The same can be said of Star Wars. Just look at how many narrative classifications can be applied to Star Wars: fantasy, science fiction, western, action, adventure, romance, drama, fairytale, etc. Star Wars includes all of these elements, but it is a coming-of-age first and foremost. It details the physical, emotional and spiritual growth of its key characters as they overcome physical, emotional and spiritual obstacles. The “fantasy” serves as the metaphor the real human condition, the backdrop that allows us to explore the struggle between the Light and Dark within us all.

- Part Two: The Hero and the Villain -​

From this point, we will begin discussing the general topic of this thesis: the dynamics between heroes and their respective villains in fairytales and other works of children’s fantasy. We must thus define the “hero” and “villain” archetypes in this context.

- The Hero -​

The hero is the protagonist, the main character, the player with whom the audience identifies and about whom the story revolves, in whatever form he or she appears. He is not necessarily the knight on his horse sent to rescue the slumbering maiden and do battle with the dragon. In fact, in most cases, the maiden herself is the focus of the tale. She is the true hero. It is her history and dynamic with the villain that creates the milieu of the narrative. The hero does not have to be heroic. He or she can be, but when it comes to most fairytales and children’s stories, the hero is simply the principal character whose story has been constructed by the writer.

- The Villain -​

The villain is the hero’s counterpart, the antagonist. They are the bad guys, the dark sorcerers, youth-deprived sorceresses and jealous older men. An engaging villain will often serve as the hero’s foil, a character whom the audience can contrast with the protagonist. The best antagonists will be as relatable as their respective protagonists. It was once said that a hero is only as good as his villain, and I happen to agree.

The hero and villain are caught in a never-ending dance that changes from genre to genre and target-audience to target-audience. Archetypes from children’s fantasy cannot be compared to archetypes from adult fantasy (see: Game of Thrones). When it comes to fairytales and children’s stories—which, as we must recall, includes Star Wars—heroes and villains share tried-and-true dynamics. Modern fairytales (or fairy-stories, as Tolkien referred to them) tend to be longer and more complex (i.e. Harry Potter, The Graveyard Book, Stardust, InuYasha, Star Wars, Shrek), but the hero/villain dynamics that became famous hundreds of years ago are still made use of constantly today. They have withstood the test of time because they “work”. They are compelling. Why fix something that isn’t broken, am I right?

I’m now going to tell something of a personal anecdote. It concerns my experience with viewing The Force Awakens in theatres for the first time. I had a very unique perspective because I was one of the few who watched this film totally unspoiled. I had seen the trailer some months before and completely forgotten about it. I didn’t know what actors were playing what roles, I didn’t know the characters’ names, I didn’t know anything about the story. I knew one thing: the main character was a young woman.

Now, with no knowledge about any of the characters, Kylo Ren’s introductory sequence struck me in a very unusual way. The following assumption didn’t last long, but it was there, and my sister (with whom I saw the film) had it too! We both thought “he” (the “cloaked knight”) might be an older woman concealing her voice and physique in an oversized costume. Crazy, right? Well, no… actually, it isn’t. There’s a good reason why I thought that might be a potential plot-twist, and I’m going to discuss it right now. It has everything to do with classic fairytale hero/villain dynamics, and two facets that decide practically everything about the potential nature of dynamic: age and gender.

Why are age and gender so incredibly important where fairytale hero/villain dynamics are concerned? Because they create boundaries, they lay down the law. Most of the time they tell you just about everything you need to know about the possible development that will occur between a hero their villainous counterpart. That is because the “hero” (in the context of coming-of-age fairytales) is by definition a youthful humanoid. The villain must be moulded to complement and challenge the young hero, and we are left with four classic hero/villain dynamics. The hero/villain relationships in just about every fairytale ever written fit into one of these three categories. They are the “the Maiden and the Mother”, the "Son and the Father" and the "Beauty and the Beast”. You would be hard-pressed to find a fairytale that introduces a hero/villain dynamic that does not apply to any of the above. I can’t think of a single example, and I have studied fairytales and children's stories for much of my adult life.

- The Maiden and the Mother -​

​

The first hero/villain dynamic—and possibly the oldest—is the Maiden and the Mother. It concerns fairytales that feature female protagonists, in most cases the maiden or princess. They oppose an older mother-figure (often false) who has become in some way twisted. She is the sorceress jealous of the maiden’s youth or beauty. Archaic examples include Sleeping Beauty (evil queen), Snow White (evil queen), The Little Mermaid (evil sea witch), Cinderella (evil stepmother), and Rapunzel (evil witch), just to name a few. Modern examples include Alice in Wonderland (Queen of Hearts), Stardust (evil witches), Coraline (the Other Mother), Howl’s Moving Castle (Witch of the Waste), InuYasha (Kikyo), Spirited Away (Ubaba), and the Wizard of Oz (Wicked Witch). The heroine must overcome the “mother” in order to come-of-age.

- The Son and the Father -​

The male version of the Maiden and the Mother, the Son and the Father concerns fairytales featuring male protagonists. Many are modern, as fairytales were originally meant as cautionary tales for young girls, not necessarily as entertainment. Writers began to twist the Maiden and the Mother to suit male heroes, and the Son and the Father was born. Famous older examples include Arthurian Tradition (Mordred), Hamlet (Claudius) and Jack and the Beanstalk (the giant). Modern examples can be found everywhere: Star Wars Original Trilogy (Darth Vader), Star Wars Prequel Trilogy (Palpatine), Lord of the Rings (Sauron), Harry Potter (Lord Voldemort), Mulan (Shan-Yu - he thought Mulan was a man), The Prydain Chronicles (The Horned King), Disney’s Aladdin (Jafar), Percy Jackson & the Olympians (Chronos), The Graveyard Book (The Man Jack), The Lion King (Scar). Once again, this “older man” or “male presence” will often have a deep connection to the hero. The hero must overcome the “father” in order to come-of-age. The “father” sometimes has an interest in the love-interest of the hero (i.e. Aladdin, The Hunchback of Notre Dame).

I would like to note that Star Wars has featured the Son and the Father dynamic not once, not twice, but three times in its history. The Original Trilogy gave us Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. Luke had to overcome his fallen father through compassion in order to come-of-age. Similarly, Anakin Skywalker fell prey to Emperor Palpatine, his own father-figure in the Prequel Trilogy. The example happens to be an inverted one, as the Prequel Trilogy is the story of Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side.

“If you wanted a subtitle for these movies, it could be fathers and sons. While Palpatine isn’t, we must assume, Anakin’s natural father, he certainly is a father-figure for him.”
— Ian McDiarmid (Emperor Palpatine)

Again, in The Force Awakens, we are introduced to Kylo Ren, the son, and Supreme Leader Snoke, the father-figure and puppeteer. There is even a scene involving Ren comparing Snoke to his real father, Han Solo.

The insinuation I am attempting to make here is that Star Wars is—at its core—not the most complex narrative. It is a children’s story, a fairytale, and it follows fairytale guidelines without straying. When Star Wars introduces a hero/villain dynamic, the writers follow through with that dynamic. They use that dynamic to explore the nature of good and evil, of Dark and Light, of youth and experience. The entire history of the franchise tells us this. You will see where I’m going with this in due time.

Both the Maiden and the Mother and the Son and the Father surround a youth and an older figure whose gender echoes their own. So yes, upon my first viewing of the Force Awakens, I made the automatic assumption that Kylo Ren might have been a woman in disguise because I knew our story had a female hero. I have a background in children’s literature, children’s writing and fairytales, and I had always viewed Star Wars a children’s story and a fairytale. That, and Star Wars had never featured a female Dark Side user before. It was therefore a fair theory founded in my own academic history, as well as the entire history of Star Wars' specific genre, as classified by its own creator.

So what hero/villain dynamic are we ultimately given in The Force Awakens? Well, you should immediately see that Rey and Kylo Ren simply don't fit into either of the above categories. They could not be more different. Rey and Kylo Ren are not the Maiden and the Mother; nor are they the Son and the Father. They are a young woman and a young man, and there is nothing—I repeat, nothing—typical about that. Their dynamic eradicates the two most common and perfectly viable hero/villain fairytale dynamics… and leads us somewhere very, very different, in the direction of the third—and perhaps the most loved—protagonist/antagonist dynamic of all time: the Beauty and the Beast.

 

I love those. And how Kylo calls Leia "Mommy" in all of them.