ST The Romantic Future of Kylo Ren and Rey

Edit: weird, for some reason this double brosted. Site is acting weird for me.

 

See they can look happy in each others company - all is not lost!!!



Gary is a true star - I love how laid back he is about getting in the middle of a Solo family drama where even Poe tries to mediate cos he's cool like that!!!

Maybe that's it - Ben wanted a cat and they got Gary instead so he went total?!?

 

I used to be a big Regina and Rumbelle fan in the early seasons of OUaT. Beauty & the beast and the chipped cup *cries*. The constant yoyo-ing killed it for me. It's been a long time since I've followed the show. Hehe, this is a bit telling as to why I've ended up in this thread.

 

I just found something cool
reylophos on tumblr matched up all of the KOR in the film to the art book designs, I think it's worth a look:
http://reylophos.tumblr.com/post/140568840231/a-shipper-despite-herself-ever-hungry-aria
I really like how the pictures are put together

 

I mentioned (about a gazillion pages ago, lol) that I was miffed that Padme seems to have been all but forgotten since the prequels. Someone asked Pablo Hidalgo if Luke and Leia even knew their mother's name, and he told them to ask again after Claudia Gray's Bloodlines comes out... I do hope it will be worth the wait, sounds like it might be!

 

That's pretty awesome. Those Knights look soooo cool. If they're not in ep.VIII I'm pretty sure I will cry with the force of a thousand waterfalls.

 

No worries, Ben and Rey will name one of their daughters Padme. Hana, Leia and Padme or whichever order they get them.

 

oooohhhh the possibilities!!!!!!

 

I am gonna guess it was deleted and rewritten as it would give too much away for Episodes VIII and IX. TFA was made obviously with so many questions that could potentially go either way.

For example, two biggest questions are Rey's parentage, and what path is Kylo Ren going to follow from here? Obviously the answer to the first could be in direct conflict to the second and you can't tell me that wasn't done on purpose.

I think if they left the compassion bit in there, it would have foreshadowed too much.

 

IMO, the "compassion" bit combined with Adam Driver's body language (which wasn't conveyed as strongly in the novelization/book) would have really hit the audience over the head with his intentions. Obviously, they wanted to leave things more subtle, so it sounds like some of the exposition didn't make the cut.

 

If that happens, the Rebellion are so screwed

 

In all seriousness, according to that, it was a KOR Kylo (or someone with a red saber) killed.
I wonder of any of those KOR are female? Maybe The Armory?

 

I dont get it, who spoiled it?

 

I hear what you're saying, and I definitely don't want to get into it with you because you are absolutely one of my favorite posters here. You always have insightful responses and always bring in other viewpoints that are out of the mainstream (i.e. the gnosticism that I will address in another post). However, I feel I need to get a word in on the ongoing "mental illness language" posts that have been going around. Your post just seemed to be the best to respond to because you seem to be a very open thinker and I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

First off, I feel like I have to disagree with you on the mental illness in Star Wars thing. I see mental issues all over Star Wars. They just don't call these issues by any name and nobody ever gets any treatment. I mean in real life terms the American Department of Veterans Affairs has handled post-war mental issues terribly. (Just take my word for it that I have good knowledge of the inner workings of some of this). However, the VA is like the epitome of perfection compared to how the Jedi or the rest of the Star Wars world treats people with serious issues. Like I said in an earlier post somewhere along the way, Anakin should have been taken off duty and been put on medical leave following his episode in the Tusken village, but the Jedi don't worry about such things, and it blew up in their faces. Neither do Skywalker parents apparently as two Skywalker mothers have created serious "abandonment" complexes by handing their sons over to Jedi training. In fact, one of my hopes in the whole "Grey Jedi" dream is that force training will get something of an overall in that they realize certain methods that run really contrary to emotional health are not useful in the long haul.

For me personally, one of the things that is so fascinating about the whole SW universe is how emotions are so poorly understood by some of the big powerbroker characters, and how parental and training mistakes can create core beliefs and driving motivations within the characters that can prove helpful or very destructive later. I am not a psychologist, but I have dealt with people suffering from serious mental issues most of my life, including family members, friends and throughout most of my work life. To this day I work with people with very serious diagnoses on a daily basis. But because I am not qualified in any formal way outside of my legal training and life experience, I agree that I shouldn't be necessarily giving a "formal diagnosis" to anyone. However, analyzing actor's choices and dialogue lines and body language and characters' motivations, whether it be from a purely plot drive POV or rooted in a larger, complex characterization, is where I really like to analyze movies. I revel in the emotional reactions and the choice of responses and the subtle meaning of phrases and like to theorize "why that character went there" while leaving camera angles and other focuses to others who know more and have more of a passion in that area.

As a result, when I try to analyze Kylo Ren, I am not trying to be offensive or insensitive to anyone. Maybe because I have dealt with folks with mental illness for so long I speak about it in blunt terms because I don't find it particularly scary because I see people with issues succeeding a lot of the time. I also find a lot of my own sympathy with Ren lies in the fact that I think he has been horribly abused and for almost all of his life has had an evil voice in his head constantly overriding his own, all the while all the support in his life seemed to drop the ball. (Once again, we don't know the whole story. I am just interpreting from what we have been given thus far). Moreover, over the years I have come to interpret the Dark Side as being oppressive, if not always outright possessive, and seriously addictive. I have cousins who are addicts *and* have a serious diagnosis and they still do okay most of the time. What that experience has led me to recognize though is that when you have distorted thoughts due to mental illness, when you're addicted, when you have some oppressive person controlling you and when you have been given no tools by your family to deal with the crises thrown at you in a healthy way because of abandonment or whatever, that that person has *so much more* weight on them and has to expend do much more energy to get to the so-called "normal" place. (I actually don't really believe in "normal". I think everybody could spend some time on some therapist's couch, but that's me). As a result, I not only feel sorry for characters like Kylo Ren because they are "behind the 8 ball" in a lot of ways compared to other characters, but I feel frustrated that just a few changes in other characters' reactions along the way could have changed everything. It's like that constant tragic current in drama of 'If only" that gets me every time. But because Star Wars comes out of a narrative tradition where redemptions actually happen and not a realistic Scorsese film, I like to think of and argue for ways these characters had get around their "burdens" and get to a better place.

Some of that analysis may include some reference to certain diagnoses, not in some effort to stigmatize people or diagnose, but to show that characters like Ren have mitigating factors and that they can get around them like people with mental illness do everyday. Perhaps none of these illnesses should be mentioned, but at the same time it makes it hard to be clear in analyses like this without that frame of reference, because frankly I just don't have any other words besides the more general and probably more offensive words like "crazy" or "insane".

So where do I go from here? Am I not allowed to do this kind of character analysis because at a given time I do not have the right word? Does the so whole psychological analysis lens just have to be closed? Being a free speech advocate and a lawyer, I am a big believer in looking at words in their entire context. Sometimes the word choice will not be perfect, but the context will let the reader know what the person is trying to say. But now if I say "Snoke's whispering in Ben's ear could have a schizophrenic-like effect on Ben, even though it's artificially induced, the end effect of unclear thinking and confusion and instability will be the same," is that now forbidden because the word "schizophrenic" might not be used in a perfectly defined manner or in a manner completely in line with everyone's sensibilities?

Maybe that's the way it has to be to keep peace on the board. But for me those kinds of rules are silencing and chilling towards speech and will probably make me hold back ideas that might constructively add to the discussion for fear that I might trip up somewhere and be accused of stigmatizing. To be perfectly honest, because of my own belief system, that is very bristling to me because I am almost always in the "more speech is better" and "marketplace of ideas" camp, but unfortunate for me in this context, maybe that's the way it has to be? I would be interested in your thoughts and anyone else's thoughts on this, particularly those who have been participating in the particular "mental health language" discussion.

 

It's really hard to tell. I think it would be cool to have a female knight or two, but from the concept art, and Rey's force vision, I think it's too hard to say for sure. Their gear does an admirable job of disguising body shape, hair, everything.

 

Rogue





Looks the least beefy and helmet is similar to Ren's only with yellow tiles. Also notice the pose. I can't imagine not having at least one woman among KoR.

 

Making babies takes time. I dont forsee them in the ST or Ep. 10, for that matter. First she needs to stop hating him, then see something good in him, then start to respect him, after that like him, followed by her falling in love with him and also planing a wedding. Granted, she already thinks he's hot, but there are just too many steps on the baby path to walk through for this trilogy, and there just won't be enough time for that...even if she is a Mary Sue Rey Kenobi....with all the galaxy saving business and killing Snoke in the background

I thought the whole point was to make a realistic in theatre (fangirling) reaction gif to Reylo becoming canon of ourselves? Because THAT would be fun

Sforza
Do I know you? You look familiar Did you see Kylo Ren yet?

 

I will be disappointed but whatever it is I will roll with it. It's Star Wars! However, 99% Rey is a Kenobi, " Hyperdrive" is the key

 

Arcanah Oh, I don't think we'll see babies in this trilogy and maybe even the next. They can always introduce grown up children years later like what they did with Ben.

 

But to not see them make babies would just suck, IMO.... maybe after the sequel sequel trilogy, hah


Edit: I have a love-hate relationship with my phone tonight...it just refuses to spell right

 

Boyband confirmed.

 

Agreed. I want to see babies.

It's Star Wars security messing up with all phones in Croatia. Only super spy Sforza could sneak into Dubrovnik undetected.

 

Hi everyone!

I'll follow the tradition for newcomers from 500 pages ago and introduce myself first; the name's Rimfaxe, 19 3/4 years old, from Germany (far in the south, near Nuremberg), saw TFA 8x, been around this thread since it started and FINALLY got the time to make my own account and join the discussions. Also I'm pretty open regarding ships. Main ship is definitely Reylo/Reyben, with some stormpilot and Finnrey for fluff on the side. Beyond that Kylux, ChewMaz, Reysma, Phux, Cougar!Leia+Poe and more for fun. Anything that makes for good fanart and hot fanfiction is fine with me.

Excuse me for this too-large post, but I've been holding all this in since December and can't wait to let out some fangirl-steam.

Before TFA I've been a rather passive SW-fan. I'll be honest; yes I've watched the old trilogies, and yes I loved the stories and the very Star Wars-esque feeling of watching folks roaming freely through a galaxy (which gives endless possibilities for storylines) - but the terrible dialogue and performances couldn't keep my interest beyond "Oh there's nothing on TV tonight, oh wait, there's Star Wars - okay, better than nothing I guess...". (No offense to people who liked George Lucas' style, I'm just not one of them.) If it wasn't for a few guys in the German gaming forum I'm in doing Star Wars jokes and references in their posts on a regular basis I probably would have forgotten about it altogether, but thanks to them I've scrolled through Wookiepedia on more than one occasion.

Now, before I give my impressions on TFA; first off, I went to the cinema unspoilered and without any expectations at all. Actually, I went to the cinema without knowing anything about the movie except what it was called (and that too only thanks to the radio advertisement). I didn't see the trailer, I didn't know about any characters or who'd actually be in the movie, nothing at all. My cinema-addicted-buddy also always claimed to dislike Star Wars so I hadn't planned on seeing it; like me, she saw the old movies, and like me she just "meh'd" and wasn't interested at all. After some persuasion one fateful Saturday evening when we were terribly bored we did go to watch it, and when we left the theater she turned to me and said "Now I like Star Wars. Damn you.". We've been merch-hunting ever since.

Without further ado, everything I've memorized and pondered on, mainly concerning Reylo or the character Kylo Ren and some topics of this thread;

- Personally, I could care less about the political correctness of reylo or any other ship and pairing. For movies and games I just want an interesting, enjoyable, thrilling and credible story. I'm not going to apply real life concerns into them; hell, and even if I did, all I would do is be confused how people are more concerned of their kids being taught that romance can happen for a 'bad guy' than they are concerned about organizations kidnapping kids from birth to train them as cannon fodder. What is wrong with people these days? Or maybe it's just because I grew up without feminism-paranoia, I dunno.

- I'm definitely pro-redemption, or at least anti-dead-Kylo. We've only gone through the early stages of his character's developement, and at the moment the only option I could imagine would be for him to leave it all behind once more and go rogue and figure himself out on his own. Either like Don Way from Oban Star Racers - lazying around until chance throws something at him - or like Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender - her comic ending by the way, not the movie ending; in the comic she snaps after seeing her mother and half-siblings and just runs away; it's unknown what happened after that, but Aang did say something like "she's on a better path" or something like that. I don't see him just going back; not because justice or anything like that (I doubt there are many people who know who he really is/was out there) but because he'd have to face the aftermath of his deeds (and considering how much he's done, it would be very human of him to chicken the hell outta there). I could imagine Maz goading him to go back though, kind of like Rafiki and Simba. But again, his character isn't done at the end of TFA; let's give the writers a chance to continue his story first before we burn the script on a stake. JUST PLEASE DON'T LET HIM DIE. PLEASE. PLEAAAAAASE.

- I'm in the Rey-Random camp and can't really discuss Rey Skywalker and Rey Solo, because I can't fathom how people ever got such ideas. My first thought when I read these theories was the same as Daisy Ridley when she was asked about it in an interview: "Did you even watch the movie???" Besides, The Legend of Korra already tried the "resolve family history"-storyline and it was boring af. Unnecessary baggage for a great story like Star Wars is gonna be. There's no time for such things in movies. I wouldn't be surprised if they never addressed her lost parents again, just like Finn's family history was shrugged off with "First Order steals kids. Nothing that can be done. Too bad." I also don't think Rey has ever met Kylo Ren; he's quite obviously able to recognize people when he senses them through the force. Both in the book and in the movie he seemed at best dumbfounded when he found out that Rey is force sensitive.

- As for the haters of this ship; meh, don't care. Then again, I was an active fan of My Little Pony back when it started in 2011, and brony haters make reylo haters look like little sissies. Until they too eventually noticed that it was just a waste of time, people still love that show. Just like people are still going to ship whatever they want. *shrug* But @all reylo shippers who do feel offended by these kids; if you're going to let insulting postings from random strangers get to you, you're gonna have a bad time. There are always going to be people around who aren't tolerant. But, that's none of my business.

- Please keep pseudo-psychology to yourself. As someone who's had psychology classes for a few years; you don't make a diagnosis or prognosis without knowing the patient's history. We don't even know Kylo's motivation for his choices (or what he perceives to be his goal, under the careful guidance of Snoke). And he's not a psychopath or sociopath, neither of those care about honesty, and Kylo obviously does. Recklessness isn't a disease.

- Now, let me get to the movie content itself, first: Adam Driver was a very unexpected and very welcome surprise. I was really intrigued by his appearance, and the more I googled of him the more I came to like him (but I can also relate to him in a lot of ways, haha). I'm also very glad that the Star Wars cast generally doesn't consist of Megan Fox-babyface-copies or Justin-Bieber-babyface-copies like nearly all other movies (and I still perceive him as very handsome despite non-mainstream-looks). They really put a lot of effort into all performances and scenes, and it shows. The amount of CGI was perfectly fine. Also, I actually quite liked the German synchronisation for once; I prefer all German voices to the English voices (except for Driver's original deep voice - thankfully, he was nonetheless given a strong voice in the German version, so that's fine).

- Again, I didn't know anything at all about TFA so I went to the cinema without any expectations, and I can only spak for my own perception of things, but to me Rey and Finn didn't have romantic chemistry. For the first part of the movie they're bickering; don't touch my friggin' hand, shoot the hell back etc. But Rey's curious about Finn, believing him to be some kind of adventurous resistance-hero far from home. Rey saving him from the rathtar helped them a bit regarding trust and reliability - until Finn's fears get the better of him and he abandons what Rey believed to be their mission. At that point Rey had more chemistry with BB-8, who always trusted her and stayed close to her no matter where she went (which ultimately saved him from getting captured). Finn comes back after witnessing the destruction of the Hosnian system to check on our team, but at this point Rey's already as good as bridal-carried away and for some reason he sticks around to kill stormtroopers when Maz explicitly tells him that Rey and BB-8 need his help (again, lucky - had Finn stumbled upon Kylo in the forest, he would have died right there!). Rey and Finn do have their big moment when the team finds her on SKB and they hug, but I don't see romance there, I just see tons of relief. Finn does have interest in Rey, but so far it hasn't been returned (which I'm glad of actually - at this stage in the trilogy story, no romance is required, not even reylo). We'll see how things progress after he wakes up from the coma, although I hope Poe is going to take him under his wing. I also don't buy Finn being force sensitive. He's not a "chosen one" just because Kylo chose him as a chew toy.

- It's pretty hard to write a characterization about Kylo Ren, but I guess I gotta give it a shot.
He changes a lot over the different acts of the movie. In the beginning he's all business, by the end he's a mess. Generally I think Driver hit the nail on the head by stating that Kylo Ren is a very reckless personality; but he's also very ambitious and driven to succeed. He's also quite confident, although that changes quickly after Rey's failed interrogation. The fact that he didn't decide that she's just a rival and killed her right away proved to me that she wasn't family of his; but I'm still not entirely sure what the point was of him offering to teach her. I do think he believes her to be someone important or of consequence to him (in the adult novelization, he spends a whole page checking if she's really just a scavenger and asks her repeatedly if it's true that she's "nothing special after all?"); that and the way he says "What girl?!" do make me think that he might have seen a vision of her. But 'someone of consequence' doesn't need to mean romance either, we'll just wait and see I guess.
I'm also very curious to see how his relationship with Snoke progresses. Now that his father's death set him off, is he still going to blindly trust his master? He already doesn't give a kriff about the FO at all (which is also made obvious in the book - he's basically just an additional occupant on the Finalizer). I also want to see him out with his gang; it's very hard for me to picture Kylo how he was at the end of TFA leading an elite team of assassins. The Kylo from the beginning of the movie - sure, but not the guy cornering Rey and trying to persuade her to join him.
Also, what is it with people calling him weak? Have they actually watched the end battle? He was an absolute beast with Finn; Finn strikes, Kylo blocks, Kylo strikes - Finn's down. Kylo walks away and pounds his wound, Finn looks up like "What have I gotten myself into", jumps up and goes to attack, Kylo turns around, they exchange a strike or two, Finn's pushed against a tree and screams while Kylo toasts his shoulder with a smile on his face. Yes, Finn touches Kylo's shoulder/upper arm after that, but c'mon - 3 seconds later Finn's unconscious on the ground. Really, how was that a display of weakness? tl;dr; He's unstable with unclear allegiances, even if clearly on the dark side (currently). They can do anything with this character at this point, and I sincerely hope that he gets as many scenes in the movie as possible (and don't mind adding Rey in those scenes!).

- I was initially shocked about reylo tendencies when I first saw the movie, it was just so unexpected. I was halfway on the Finnrey train when Kylo freezes Rey in Takodana. First I was thrilled, usually they don't have hero and evil guy interacting a lot beyond the usual "YOU WILL ALL BOW BEFORE ME"-speech before a fight. Then you have that tiny moment in the movie when a stormtrooper goes to tell Ren about the resistance attackers; in the very first second of the scene he has his hand on her cheek/head and his head is like, waaay to close to hers. If he wasn't wearing that goddamned mask they'd be standing there forehead-to-forehead (this scene is sooo gonna be hyped through the reylo community once the DVD comes out ). I tried shrugging it off as "Well, maybe he can... uhm, look better inside her head if he's standing closer...", and then came the bridal carry. At this point I was just "... Okay. Rim, don't get any ideas." And then the interrogation scene with this BEAUTIFUL face, these INCREDIBLE eyes and the GEORGOUS hair. Swooned for a moment, and then he's once again way too close at her. I remember quite well that I had a giant crooked smirk on my face and hoped my friend wouldn't notice, while on the inside I just screamed "OH COME ON. WHAT'S NEXT? She gonna trip over something and fall on top of him in the final battle?!". Him suddenly offering her a way out of otherwise certain death (at the moment) was worse than that though, plus him towering closely over Rey...
I might not have sensed romance, but that one-sided interest of whatever nature was enough to get me to set sail as reylo shipper. Disney's gotta use Driver's talent for hot scenes, not just emotional ones.

Also, it appears that the majority of the German fandom believes reylo or at least further hints of reylo to happen. The very first post-cinema-release comment to TFA in my gaming forum's Star Wars thread ended with "Yeah, Rey is sooo gonna flirt with the dark side", and a lot of (male) German Facebook users are making fun of him being unable to distinguish 'which saber' *cough* he should have used on Rey.
Oh, and in a Star Wars magazine Kylo Ren was described as having been Luke's "favourite student", could that be relevant to the story?

 

LOL this reminds me of something I saw on tumblr this week. It was a piece of VERY nsfw Reylo art that left absolutely NOTHING to the imagination. Below it, the tag said "Episode VIII please."

I laughed my ass off. It's a shame it'd be against the TOS to share it here.... Lol