ST The Sanctuary - (Dissenters Unite! - Warning on page 232)

No man, it was the calendar's fault it had the biggest drop in history

 

Everyone knocks on the prequel Jedi, and they're not perfect. The sometimes-sketchy ways they get their recruits, to their role in the Clone Wars (not the "used a slave army" part, but the "turned into military generals overnight with no military training"), to their weird rules on emotion, to the fact that one little green goblin was running the Order for hundreds of years. Yeah, talk about those all you want.

But you can't deny that the Jedi were a symbol of hope and peace in the galaxy. They helped keep the Republic strong for 1000 years. People longed for the Jedi again after the Empire came into power. In a million different languages across thousands of planets, everyone knew the word "Jedi", and most weren't afraid.

Yeah, Luke was told off by Yoda for being a curmudgeon about the Order, but the main message of that plot was "man, the old Jedi sucked and did nothing for the galaxy! Rey's version is gonna be better because she's probably gonna pick out the best parts of those old tomes, then make a healthy, subversive new Order!"
You can't tell me Luke didn't already try that with his Order. I mean, his defining action in the OT was to love his family and friends...and he saved the galaxy by doing it. I'm sure he had an idea of how to make his Order somewhat like the old one, but less restrictive, more loving. And yet they'd still be the Jedi that inspired the galaxy.
Not exactly the right hill on which to build your new fortress, hmm? The Jedi of old not living up to snuff, or that Luke failed in the same ways they did...

 

I believe I would have prefered Luke dying in a lightsaber duel against Kylo. A real saber duel I mean, not a VR one.

I am quite confident this would have displeased Luke hardcore fans as well, as there is no way super sayan Luke would have lost a lightsaber duel against Kylo.

 

Great point about Luke's defining moment being his love for family and friends...and through that saving the galaxy. That is Luke's "symbol" and why so many identify with it.

In TLJ Luke's love is thrown away - they were the wrong family, the wrong friends to love - you gotta love the Falthiers now, go 'ahhh' at the vulptex threatened by the bad-ol' First Order (and don't forget to buy some Porgs on the way out).

 

• Lightsaber toss over the shoulder -- could have made the exact same point with Luke simply dropping it to the ground and walking away and it would have felt more realistic and tonally consistent with the ending of TFA and audience expectations. Easy fix. The over the shoulder toss took me out of the movie right away and felt like RJ was trying too hard.
• Floating Leia -- could have focused on Akbar's death while retaining the Injured Leia storyline with her being the sole leader who doesn't get sucked into the vacuum of space. Imagine a scene where Leia's walking off the bridge and out into a corridor as the explosions occur....the shot zooms in on Akbar as he's sucked out into the blackness...she could still be injured by the explosion and the rest of the story goes unchanged. Emphasizing Akbar's demise would have lent a great deal of weight to Kylo's character and the story more broadly. Akbar is an important character to galactic events and popular within the fanbase....missed opportunity there and the Leia Space Glide just doesn't work for me.
• The Space-Horse Rampage -- could have cut this scene back and still retained the relational importance of the oppressed children. Have the children release the horses as a distraction while Finn/Rose sneak away and find DJ and BB8 with out all the chase. The film is a little long and while the chase doesn't last really long, it could have been scaled back. The same message could have been achieved and made the story a little tighter.

And that's pretty much it. On first viewing, I wanted to change almost everything, but I've really come to love TLJ after several viewings and realizing what they wanted to do with the film.

TLJ doesn't take the characters or the story where I expected, but it does a wonderful job of taking the story and characters where it wants. After repeated viewings and re-analyzing the story and its larger messages, I think it's a beautiful film that reinvents the saga in a way that I appreciate. But these scenes are still sticking points with me.

 

Order pizza but it comes rotten and spoiled.
''See it's good because it subverted your expectations.''
''I don't like it''
''I knew you weren't a true customer of our brand, bet you hate women because they cook our food here''
''No I just wanted a pizza''
''Yeah? Well it's pizza I don't know why you expected anything''

 

This.

 

Pizza fanboys...

 

"Ugh, pizza fanboys! Diehard pizza lovers didn't keep the pizza business operating for 40+ years! It was all those casual pizza lovers that sometimes bought a pie that made sure pizza stayed popular! You gotta change the formula, or else the business will die out. Put some figs on here, and maybe some sardines, maybe some pineapple, and no tomato sauce...there! Now those cool, hip kids will like it!"

 

I heard if you force yourself to eat it over and over again you'll eventually think it's the greatest pizza ever made.

 

Something else that bothers me is that the title crawl begins with the FO already in charge of the galaxy. The one thing about the FO in TFA that made them different from the Empire was they were a smaller splinter group. If they actually had enough ships to conquer the galaxy in a couple days, as TLJ portrays it, why didn't they use some of those ships to defend Starkiller Base in the first place? It retroactively makes the attack on SKB in the previous movie make even less sense than before.

Once again this comes back to the idea that TLJ does whatever it likes without regard to how it will weaken the entries before and after it. I gave JJ a hard time for some aspects of TFA, but I really feel for him, having his first Star Wars movie weakened like this and now having to somehow pick up the pieces for episode IX and figure out how to make this thing feel like a cohesive trilogy.

 

Agreed. Why was Snoke so obsessed with Luke and the Resistance if they had enough power to just conquer the galaxy even after SKB was destroyed? It’s not as if stopping the potential rise of the Jedi was getting in the way of them taking over the galaxy.

 

Yes, and if you order it just remember to call it "post-structural pizza" or if you're really 'smart' "deconstructing star wars pizza". In the future you'll just be able to say "I'll have a 'Rian Johnson'"

 

For me the equally bad decision was Rey following Luke immediately after he tossed the lightsaber. Luke just threw the hilt and Rey immediately followed him didnt even care about the thing that was the center of TFA, thus making Anakin's lightsaber the thing no one give a single damn about.
Why not to make her picking up the lightsaber and then follow Luke?
It was done worst possible way to show the disrespect to both TFA cliffhanger and TFA mcguffin (Anakin's lightsaber).

 

Q
Well, I tried to watch it a 2nd time yesterday. Ended up walking out a hour in. Never thought I'd do that with a Star Wars movie.

As far as complaints? Holdo's speech was about as inspiring as a wet paper towel. The spark yadda yadda yadda line should have been compacted.

 

That line is complete garbage. I cringed everytime I heard it in the movie.

 

LMAO at the last 20 or so posts.

I hope you all don't get banned!

 

It's Oscar Isaac's delivery.

 

We are the spark that will light the fire that will cook the pizza that will light the hope that will milk the Nessie that will bot the Rotten Tomatoes that resurrect the rebellion.

 

don't put this on oscar!! he doesn't deserve it lol.

 

In the UK there is a phrase for it: "You can't turn a pig's ear into a silk purse". Also "You can't polish a ..." better not say it.

 

This x1000.