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Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

Discussion in 'Community' started by Snax Rebo, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    The Dune Encylopedia has a foreward written by Frank Herbert - "As the first 'Dune fan', I give this encyclopedia my delighted approval, although I hold my own counsel on some of the issues still to be explored as the Chronicles unfold."
    The whole 'Rossak' thing came from Dune, where the Zensunni Wanderers found a 'poison drug' on Rossak that their own Reverend Mothers used.
     
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  2. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

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    May 4, 2003
    I hate to derail, but can we circle back on this "the Navigators aren't actually human" point? Is their more about even the Guild Representatives themselves having altered biology?
     
  3. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Honestly I think that's a great summation. You can't match the unified vision of the original creator, that's impossible. But you can be entertained by the continuing stories in the universe - or you can leave them be, if you're an absolute purist.

    In response to where the worms came from, do Brian and KJA have a read on that?

    In terms of Frank's universe, I'm wondering if they have some common ancestors on other planets (Rossak possibly), all deposited by a sort of panspermia from some other unknown origin point. The environment on Arrakis just creating that perfect storm to evolve the microorganism into sandtrout.
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 5x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Nope - they're already there in the first prequel book, and Arrakis is already desert. The sequels never say where the worms come from, either.
    Sounds a bit like Lucas's foreword to Splinter of the Mind's Eye.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  5. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Do we know how many planets were living when humanity discovered them and how many was terraformed?
     
  6. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 5x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    According to Wikipedia, one of the few things both the Encyclopaedia and Brian Herbert agreed on, was that "Tanidia Nerus" was an alias and that Gaius Mohiam was Jessica's real mother - because both were drawing on Frank Herbert's notes in this case.
     
  7. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Leto's comments appear to indicate that it was the sandtrout themselves that were transported.
    Heretics of Dune indicates that the sandtrout can turn any world into Dune, and we see this in Chapterhouse: Dune.

    According to Dune, around the time of the founding of the Empire there were roughly 13,300 planetary members of the Landsraad - that is probably not including minor settlements, research colonies, etc.
    Unlike Lucas, though, Frank Herbert apparently read the book and even incorporated a piece or two in his final two Dune novels - the one I remember specifically is a reference to the history of the Mentats.
    In any case, KJA and Brian Herbert have made their feelings clear on the Encyclopedia, especially since it has never been reprinted since Frank Herbert's death.
     
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  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord 5x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Yup. Lucas was pretty undiplomatic about the EU as well - especially about Luke getting married.

    Best to just think of them as alternate universes - like "Legendsverse" and "Disneyverse".
     
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  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Oh, I have definite opinions on the subject of 'canon'. The tl,dr version is that 'canon' was originally a term created by fans, not publishing companies; as such, terms like 'noncanon' have little point. It all depends on your point of view.
    Much like Star Wars, Dune has a 'core mythos' shared by the later ones - The OT and PT analogous to Frank Herbert's novels.
     
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  10. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

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    Nov 9, 2000
    Got my entire Dune collection out of storage tonight. On the road to get it, a dozen people or so tried to get me to run them over... >.<
     
  11. BLemelisk

    BLemelisk Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 19, 2003
    I need to keep going with Children, so the greater mysteries revealed to the faithful in God Emperor and beyond are over my head currently.

    The chapter-long description of Alia's mind unraveling while she was going "insane" turned me off, so I just picked up my Legends read again :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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  12. Lordban

    Lordban Chosen One star 6

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    Nov 9, 2000
    5-5-2-2-2-4-4-5-4-4.
     
  13. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 4

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    May 27, 1999
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  14. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Whew! Finished something that I had wanted to do since college - I finally finished cataloguing the Dune Encyclopedia.

    One of the issues that I found interesting is an 'in-universe' discussion over the discovery of melange. A logical deduction that they make is that the Spacing Guild must have learned of its prophetic properties prior to their ascension, and probably after the Butlerian Jihad - throwing everyone off the scent by emphasizing its geriatric properties. The Bene Gesserit probably discovered its usage about the same time.
    It's interesting, because the Orange Catholic Bible is developed about then as well - which we also know was developed by religious group headed by a Zensunni, the same group that spawned the Fremen and Tleilaxu

    Back to Children of Dune!
     
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  15. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    Delayed until Oct 2021
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  16. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 1, 2012
    A year’s delay is probably for the best.
     
  17. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    How long is it going to be until the market can really support movies with $200-300 million in production and marketing costs? It definitely isn't going to be like turning on a light. By the time Dune comes out, a significant percentage of U.S. movie theaters may have closed permanently. People's moviegoing habits may have been altered permanently. People may be more economically stressed in the aggregate than they are right now.
     
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  18. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    Imho, it's not a matter of when, but if :(
     
  19. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 19, 2015
    it doesn't bother me. I've seen so many decent and entertaining movies with sub $50 million budgets over the last 7 months. The end of the $250 million franchise fx spectacle would suit me fine.
     
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  20. Princess_Tina

    Princess_Tina Chosen One star 7

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    May 10, 2001
    It wouldn't end, necessarily, but it would perhaps be limited to the streamers, which appear to be the only ones who'll be able to afford them, at least occasionally
     
  21. Boba_Fett_2001

    Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 11, 2000
    People might just hate movies altogether! (amirite @JoinTheSchwarz)
     
  22. JoinTheSchwarz

    JoinTheSchwarz JC Head Admin & Community Manager star 9 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 21, 2002
    movies are so bad
     
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  23. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

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    Feb 15, 2000
    I seem to recall (but I don't have a citation from the book handy) that Guild Navigators go through at least three stages - the third stage Navigator is able to bend time and looks like a whale/fish and lives in a tank of pure spice gas essence. The first two stages are basically journeymen and retain their human form until the spice transforms/mutates them. So just having a Guild "Navigator" appear in human form just means that they are not yet stage three Navigators.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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  24. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    A deeper read of The Dune Encyclopedia offered one explanation - the Navigators and Steersmen actually separate.

    Heretics of Dune mentioned that the Steersmen are 100% human when they are born, no matter what they grow into, and can still breed with other humans.
     
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  25. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 16, 2012