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Amph "The Sleeper Has Awakened" - DUNE DISCUSSION-

Discussion in 'Community' started by Snax Rebo, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    WHAT'S THIS THEN?

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  3. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    "I really am expecting much more of a David Lynch movie." He wasn't wrong.
     
  4. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000

    There was a case many years ago I was involved in where a publisher secured the rights to some stories but not all of them (i must remain deliberately vague on the details). So the publisher published the stories they had the rights to in a way which suggested the other stories were crap. There was a lawsuit. The use of the word "great" in the title indicates to me that the exact same thing is happening here!

    God Emperor to me is just too self-indulgent for my liking. You know that stage when successful writers realise they have an audience so they feel safe in abandoning ship on writing a decent story and instead just indulge themselves in whatever obsession they have because *** you readers I made it and I'll just write to please me. God Emperor and the crap that followed is a bit like that. The stuff written by Brian Herbert and KJ Ansderson was just the opposite - take the basic themes and turn them into comic books.
     
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  5. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    The first three books are definitely the strongest for me, especially the original and Children of Dune. I think God Emperor ends up as philosophy without a strong story and the sequels after that story without strong philosophy, the recent stuff is vastly more simplistic and not on the same level at all as Franks work. Don't think its a coincidence that the original and Children of Dune took the longest to write.

    As far as adaptations go I just felt the Sci fi series was poorly made, yes its closer to the books but still doesn't live up to them and doesn't really bring anything to the table itself. Lynchs Dune obvious deviates from the book heavily but is a much better production, I think story wise it works on its own terms plus I do think it sums up a lot of the setting of the book well.

    As far as future adpatations go I think Legendary picking up the rights sounds like a positive move as Paramount seemed to be trying to turn it into a standard action film, Dennis Villeneuve has been talked up hasn't he? if his Blade Runner sequel is as good as the talk makes it I would like to see that. it seems a little unclear what there plans actually are, theres talk of a film AND a TV series but that might just be a confusion that they've bought the rights to make both? I could kind of see that working though, the original books is I think the best candidate for a film adaptation(or maybe two films) but I could see the following two books making for better TV series.
     
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  6. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Herbert's sex stuff was weird enough on its own without letting something like HBO get hold of it. I'd rather not watch some pornography show.
     
  7. Juke Skywalker

    Juke Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2004

    God Emperor is a natural stopping point, putting a bow of sorts on the Atreides arc, while Heretics and Chapterhouse open up a whole new can of sandworms; the latter ending with a lot of threads hanging.
     
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  8. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    In the first four books as well the "enemy" that's being fought against is the potential for general decline of humanity over time if locked into controlling systems/rule, I believe "Ixian claws"get mentioned briefly as a threat(I'd guess suggesting AI or maybe just battle robots created in the future by the Ixians) but more as a symptom of that decline that the direct threat. That's riding above all of the smaller scale politics we see unfold and without it I don't think what follows has the same depth, especially not the idea(if that was what Frank Hebert intended at all) that there had been an aggressive AI enemy in the past(that for some reason goes unmentioned for 4 books) which is vastly more simplistic.
     
  9. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Nailed it
     
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  11. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    I wonder if they'll adapt Dune with two parts, because the first book is obviously too big to accurately adapt with just one movie. The first film could end with Jessica and the Reverend Mother's water ceremony, and the second could open with Feyd talking with the Baron, and the Sandrider ritual. It would make sense too, because in the book several years pass between Jessica becoming the Reverend Mother and Paul's test. It's a good dropping-off point.
     
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  12. Juke Skywalker

    Juke Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2004
    As Lynch discovered, it's an awful lot of story for one movie. Even if you make trims, eliminate subplots and characters, you're looking at three hours minimum to do it any sense of justice, and that might not be considered "commercial" these days. But splitting it into two films is a risk as well. You've got to find a way to make the first part feel satisfying in its own right, or casual moviegoers will feel cheated. And what if it tanks? You've then gotta go out and promote a second film no one wants to see.

    I'd go the two part approach because I feel it's the best, but it's not necessarily the simplest.
     
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  13. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    You could argue post LOTR there might well be the possibility of a 3 hour+ film although a sub division doesn't seem impossible. The first book was afterall first serialised as two separate works and still sub divided in its current form, its a question I spose of whether you can make Paul and Jesscia's escape a satisfying conclusion to the first film. There are certainly some action packed scenes there, escaping from the guards, escaping the Sadurkar, escaping the worm and fighting Jamis.

    Back to back filming does potentially save a good deal in terms of budgets and I'd imagine adult focused cinema probably earns relatively more in the home market as well. The Blade Runner sequel is I think potentially going to be key to whether we can get R-rated films with larger budgets made in the future. Still I don't think Dune needs to go crazy with its action
     
  14. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The Dune Cinematic Universe. You know you want it. It will be yuge. so much sand. Very sandy. Very very beautiful and very very sandy. So sandy.
     
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  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    I was told I'd be permabanned if I ever made another AOTC sand reference.
     
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  17. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    So I'm on the chapter after
    Paul kills Jamis, where they're doing that water reclamation ritual, and at one point Jessica says to herself "Where did he learn that quotation? He hasn't sutdied the mysteries."

    This a typo made by Frank Herbert going all the way back and just carried on over the years, or just my current version of the book?
     
  18. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    I have a 1970s Book Club Edition, and it says studied, so I think it's just your version.
     
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  19. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Capitalism.
     
  20. DenOfEarth

    DenOfEarth Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Big fan of the books for 25 years since i was 11 when i read them as i'm a sci-fi/fantasy geek since i was a kid and the Herbert books blew my mine. I disliked both the Sci-fi mini-series and Lynch film but liked Children of Dune.

    A new adaptation has to be 3 parts like Lord of the Rings was and should be an HBO series as it would work better that way.
     
  21. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Nah, Dune wasn't a mistake.
     
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  22. Snax Rebo

    Snax Rebo Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Seize the means of Spice production!
     
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  23. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Tim Burton's Dune is still the best

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Ahhh Dune!

    I saw the film back in the 80's and had not read the book and while I could follow the basic story ok, some stuff confused me.
    I saw with my dad, who had read the books and he was not happy afterwards. I think it might be the crossest I have ever seen him from just a movie.

    I did read the book a few years later and liked it a lot, read Messiah and Children and liked them.
    But God Emperor was just a slog to get through and I didn't like it at all and stopped reading the series.

    I have seen the TV series and I would say the first is ok and the second is pretty good.
    Budget is the big problem with the first series and some less than good performances, Hurt is really wooden but then again he often is.
    But where I will give the series a lot of credit is with the Baron and his family.
    The Lynch film handled them terribly. Everything about them drips of idiocy.
    The Baron and his nephews are made into such morons, and disgusting ones at that, that one can't imagine how they could ever find their way inside a space ship. Much less come up with a devious plan like this.

    The Lynch film captures the Epic nature of the book and looks impressive.
    But it has a lot of flaws. That isn't all on Lynch since he had to cut about 1/4 of the movie.
    Also the problem was that the studio wanted Star Wars. And while Lucas took some inspiration from them, Dune isn't Star Wars. And trying to make it into that is leading you away from the strength of the novel.

    Bye for now.
    Blackboard Monitor
     
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  25. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    [​IMG]
    look, I've called a Sandworm.

    Now I'm riding it!
    [​IMG]

    1992, baby! We've entered the nostalgia zone