The Tharen/Solo trilogy...opinions ?

Personnaly, I really liked it, and I will never understand the critic that some make about it being ''too romantic''...It's mostly about vengeance in my opinion, and I will always find Bria a very credible carachter, like Solo (it's strange for a Starwars fan, but all Jedi characters except Tahiri and Mara gets on my nerve)

 

I really enjoyed it. I think a lot of people here give A.C. Crispin a lot of guff for having created a "Mary Stu" type character in Bria Tharen, when I think the opposite is very true. Bria is a very flawed character.

Some viable criticism might be made for Crispin's actions AFTER having written the books, but regardless, the novels speak for themselves and are truly enjoyable pieces of work. Great research done, and some great stories.

 

I loved the trilogy. A.C. Crispin did some great research, getting some really good characters and bringing them all together. The entire Tharen thing: it worked. How can anyone expect that Han didn't have any sort of romance before Leia, I don't know. The characters that we did see ranged far and wide, drawing from teh Dark Empire series to the Crystal star, and she did an awesome job with that. Plus, the stories were top-notch. Excellently done, paced and plotted.

 

It was nice to see Han's past and she did a good job writing Chewie while many authors didn't know how to use him. Rebel Dawn had to much Tharen though. But it was nessesary to fit with the Han Solo Adv.

 

The "Han Solo Trilogy"(as it is officially known), is a rather fun series of books.

The "Han Solo Adventures", are just as fun.

 

I really enjoyed the books. They did alot to flush out the early adventures of Solo, and gave a reason for Han being so hesitant to join the Rebellion right off, but also why he did seem to give in so eaily.

Bria was a well written character, and definately one of my favorites. I was sad to see her killed off, but I understood the need to allow Han and Leia to continue the way they did, both in the movies and other EU stories.

I loved how the Books brought in numerous characters seen in several other books.

All in all, well worth the read!

 

The last book in the Han Solo Trilogy was actually my first Star Wars book (Not counting the Galaxy of Fear series), but I didn't read it until I had the other two parts of the trilogy.

I loved this trilogy, by the way. A.C. Crispen needs to come back to the Star Wars universe and write again.

Bria was very likable, too. I can understand why Han fell in love with her. I also like stories where the hero doesn't wind up getting the best deal and living happy ever after. It makes them feel more real.

 

While I think it is a bit "too romantic," it had a great story and the author seems to have gone to great lengths to avoid continuity errors.

 

I've only read Paradise Snare, and it's the only SW book I've never finished. I found it boring.

wolf

 

The books are full of continuity errors, not just with the movies, but with the scripts, the novelizations, and even with other EU books. Crispin claims she did extensive research but she obviously overlooked/ignored anything which got in the way of her Mary Sue fantasies.

The books are too much like a romance novel series, and Bria Tharen is the biggest Mary Sue ever: everyone, even Boba Fett, is stunned by her beauty and courage; she's Han's first love and "the reason why" he does and says everything in the movies; she founds the Rebellion; she gets Alderaan involved in the Rebellion; she steals the Death Star plans (like about 20 other people); and to top it off, she dies a martyr. Everything about her reeks of Mary Sue-ism, even her "flaws," which I've seen described as "strategic, they-actually-make-her-better flaws."

I cannot see what it is about her that would make Han pine over her for ten years and name his ship after her, nor turn into such a mushball around her. Also, I don't like how Crispin messed with Han's hero's journey. As I saw one person put it, he's supposed to change from a hardened, cynical person to part of the whole. That's all pointless if he's just crabby because some girl burned him.

Crispin openly trashed Lucas and the prequels on the RASSM message board, saying that Lucas should hire her to write the prequels because she can write a hell of a lot better than he can -- but then so could a ten-year-old. Despite this estimation of her own writing abilities, I don't think her writing is that great. And despite her bragging that LFL found her books to be "pure Han Solo," I don't think she captured him well at all. In fact, I think she butchered him, and cheapened the Han/Leia relationship on top of it with the Han/Bria romance -- Leia is turned into a "rebound woman," and everything, even "I love you"/"I know," is turned into a pale shadow of a similar scene between Han/Bria, because Han/Bria "did it all first."

I hate how the EU has abused and disrespected Han and Leia's romance, and this series was just one of the blows. The NJO had a few more blows, and even dredged up Bria, with Han thinking dreamily of "the good times" with her after walking out on Leia. Crispin was reportedly delighted by the nod and took it to mean Han never got over Bria.

How can anyone expect that Han didn't have any sort of romance before Leia, I don't know.

I have never, EVER met anyone, Han/Leia fan or no, who believes Han didn't have romances, in fact many romances, before he met Leia. In fact, there's a scene in the ANH script and novelization that has Han cannoodling in the cantina with a "wench"; the scene was cut from the movie but it's available on the "Behind the Magic" CD-ROM.

However, Han had never been in love before Leia. He'd been with his share of women, but he had never been in love. Both Lucas and Harrison Ford have said that Leia was the first woman Han ever loved (well, technically Lucas said "had strong feelings for"), and the ROTJ novelization also says that Han had never known love before Leia.

Bria was a well written character, and definately one of my favorites. I was sad to see her killed off, but I understood the need to allow Han and Leia to continue the way they did, both in the movies and other EU stories.

So if Bria hadn't died, Han and Leia wouldn't have been together?

You see, that's what gets me. Leia is reduced to a rebound woman, who Han wouldn't have fallen for had Bria not died -- or maybe that Han would've left Leia for Bria had she not died and then showed up in his life again. That's giving Bria way more importance and significance than she warrants, on top of the importance and significance Crispin had already given her (founder of the Rebellion, getting Alderaan involved, stealing the Death Star Plans).

I find it strange that people hate Callista so much, saying she "interferes" with the "inevitable" Luke/Mara romance. First of all, Callista was created, within the normal timeline, as the great love of Lu

 

"The books are full of continuity errors, not just with the movies, but with the scripts, the novelizations, and even with other EU books. Crispin claims she did extensive research but she obviously overlooked/ignored anything which got in the way of her Mary Sue fantasies."

Like what? I'm curious as to which continuity errors you found because I didn't notice any. Enlighten me.



"The books are too much like a romance novel series, and Bria Tharen is the biggest Mary Sue ever: everyone, even Boba Fett, is stunned by her beauty and courage; she's Han's first love and "the reason why" he does and says everything in the movies; she founds the Rebellion; she gets Alderaan involved in the Rebellion; she steals the Death Star plans (like about 20 other people); and to top it off, she dies a martyr. Everything about her reeks of Mary Sue-ism, even her "flaws," which I've seen described as "strategic, they-actually-make-her-better flaws."

Except she doesn't found the Rebellion, nor does she get Alderaan involved. She encourages Winter, but it's not like Winter is the Prime Minister of Alderaan and as for her status in the Rebellion, she's merely a member of one rebel cell, not the entire Alliance. As for flaws, I meant more along the line of how we're introduced to her as a drug addicted zealot, and how she decides, later on, to replace human contact and love with her need to destroy the slavery in the galaxy that nearly destroyed her own life.

 

Like what? I'm curious as to which continuity errors you found because I didn't notice any. Enlighten me.

The contradiction with the Thrawn trilogy, which states that Han met Garm Bel Iblis when he was eleven and in school. Boba Fett's real name being "Jaster Mareel," when in fact it's...Boba Fett. The contradiction with other EU novels which have established other characters as stealing the Death Star plans. The contradiction with the ROTJ novelization, which states that Han had never known love before Leia. Han being heartbroken after he finds out Bria is dead (shortly before he meets Luke and Obi Wan in ANH), which contradicts the novelization, the script, and, not unimportantly, the movie, where Han is cheerful, cocky, and not in the least heartbroken. The contradiction with ANH's script and novelization which show Han cannoodling with a "wench" (strange behavior for a heartbroken man mourning his lost love). The contradictions with many other EU novels which establish Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Garm Bel Iblis as the founders of the Rebellion...looky here, it's Bria who singlehandedly founded it.

Except she doesn't found the Rebellion, nor does she get Alderaan involved. She encourages Winter, but it's not like Winter is the Prime Minister of Alderaan and as for her status in the Rebellion, she's merely a member of one rebel cell, not the entire Alliance.

And she helps bring the cells together, thus forming the Alliance. Alderaan joins the Rebellion largely due to Bria and how impressed Winter and Bail are with her. Bria has been identified in various sources and other EU books as "the founder of the Rebellion" or at least as "one of the founders of the Rebellion."

As for flaws, I meant more along the line of how we're introduced to her as a drug addicted zealot, and how she decides, later on, to replace human contact and love with her need to destroy the slavery in the galaxy that nearly destroyed her own life.

So she's "too brave" and "devotes herself too much to her cause, to the point of sacrificing herself." In other words, "strategic, they-actually-make-her-better flaws." Indeed, the other characters fawn over her for her bravery and devotion, as well as her beauty.

 

Well enjoy it, but EPIII will negate much of it, esp. after Crispin went out of her way to insult GL,a nd say her papaerboy could have done a better job with TPM.

 

The contradiction with the Thrawn trilogy, which states that Han met Garm Bel Iblis when he was eleven and in school.

Crispin explained that.

Boba Fett's real name being "Jaster Mareel," when in fact it's...Boba Fett.

Not her fault that Episode 2 hadn't been made yet.

The contradiction with other EU novels which have established other characters as stealing the Death Star plans.

You mean Dark Forces, which has Kyle Katarn stealing the plans?

The contradiction with the ROTJ novelization, which states that Han had never known love before Leia.

The RotJ novelization also says that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother.

 

"The books are too much like a romance novel series, and Bria Tharen is the biggest Mary Sue ever:"

Except that true Mary Sues are supposed to be perfect and flawless, and never do anything illegal, drug related, or fall into bad crowds. They are supposed to be like the Author.

As far as what I know about the author she never joined up into a cult, she wasn't a drug user(or view drug using as perfection) when she wrote the books, and she wasn't doing anything illegal, she never helped rebels breakaway from country and wage a civil war.

"everyone, even Boba Fett, is stunned by her beauty and courage;"

I'm not sure she was beatiful in the classic sense, she's described as being rather like a coccaine addict throughout the series. She's also described as being rather plain and pasty faced in a few places.

"she's Han's first love and "the reason why" he does and says everything in the movies; she founds the Rebellion;"

I tend to argue about her being his "first love" han appeared to have more of a "crush" on her, one that Bria never really returned, except when she wanted something out of Han. She was a user if anything. A dispicable character flaw, that did nothing to make her better.

"she gets Alderaan involved in the Rebellion;"

Shelly, I don't know what edition of the books you were reading, but in my copies.

Bria didn't directly bring Alderaan into the rebellion she just happen to be one person in the room with dozens of other more important individuals above her discussing things. She seemed to be more of a position of assistant, intern, or retainer for those that were discussing things.

Simply being there doesn't mean she was important in its creation. There were alot of no-bodies there that day, that saw the event but didn't do much in the actual involvement.

"she steals the Death Star plans (like about 20 other people)"

Well she didn't technically steal the plans the plans were sent to her group by the group that did the actual stealing. Dark Forces novels mentioned her involvement in a line too, that she had received a portion of the death star plans from those that stole it. But ya the EU went a bit overboard there, between the scrolling text version, the Radio drama version, Dark Forces, Bel Iblis version, Keyan Farlander, and her, and whoever else, there were simply too many versions of the event, even if all have been incorporated.

"and to top it off, she dies a martyr. Everything about her reeks of Mary Sue-ism, even her "flaws," which I've seen described as "strategic, they-actually-make-her-better flaws."

I disagree I feel the flaws made her human, but not a better human. I found her to be a rather bankrupt individual characterwise.

"I cannot see what it is about her that would make Han pine over her for ten years and name his ship after her, nor turn into such a mushball around her."

Like most men, he was horny. She was about the only woman he had access to, while on the mining world. It was his crotch that was controlling him, and he was certainly desperate. I don't consider horny lust to be true love, or first love... Let's face it men have lower expectations if they don't have very many choices.

"Crispin openly trashed Lucas and the prequels on the RASSM message board, saying that Lucas should hire her to write the prequels because she can write a hell of a lot better than he can -- but then so could a ten-year-old. Despite this estimation of her own writing abilities, I don't think her writing is that great. And despite her bragging that LFL found her books to be "pure Han Solo," I don't think she captured him well at all. In fact, I think she butchered him, and cheapened the Han/Leia relationship on top of it with the Han/Bria romance -- Leia is turned into a "rebound woman," and everything, even "I love you"/"I know," is turned into a pale shadow of a similar scene between Han/Bria, because Han/Bria "did it all first."

Would you like to post proof? So that the mods don't think you are intentially and dishonestly making up stuff in order to fla

 

Just out of curiousity where does Fett say his name is Mereel?

And it didn't contradict TTT if I remember correctly. Han was in school doing a con for Shrike.

 

I just finshed reading the books, and it says somewhere near the end of The Paradise Snare that Boba Fett "used to go by the name Jaster Mereel" or something like that.

 

It's in Tales from the Bounty Hunters as well, where that idea originated from. However both came out before the prequels.

According to Gamer #9, Jaster was just an assumed name he used at some point in his life based on his Dad's mentor's name.

At the end of Open Seasons, the first name that Jango gives his son before naming him Boba Fett, is "Jaster's Legacy".

 

You mean Dark Forces, which has Kyle Katarn stealing the plans?

Yes, and many others. The theft of the Death Star plans has become like a running joke or a game of Clue in the EU.

The RotJ novelization also says that Owen is Obi-Wan's brother.

I'm sorry, that doesn't work. The ROTJ novelization came out before the prequels. Crispin's books, however, came out after the novelization. At the time her books came out, there was nothing to contradict that Owen was Obi Wan's brother. She herself created a storyline which contradicted "Han had never known love."

 

"I'm sorry, that doesn't work. The ROTJ novelization came out before the prequels. Crispin's books, however, came out after the novelization. At the time her books came out, there was nothing to contradict that Owen was Obi Wan's brother. She herself created a storyline which contradicted "Han had never known love." "

And the same can be said about the Boba Fett / Jaster Mereel thing. I was going to reply to you stating much of what Valiento just posted but hje got to it first. Regardless, it seems to me that you've got more of a personal vendetta with the author than with the books, which I think are generally pretty well regarded.

Also, I'm not sure this has been posted, but in regards to Garm Bel Iblis, this whole incident is explained within the first 100 pages of the Paradise Snare, the FIRST book in the trilogy. Did you even read the novels or did you just read summaries and or/ get taken aback with the idea of Han having *gasp* a relationship with a woman besides Leia?

 

And the same can be said about the Boba Fett / Jaster Mereel thing.

Yeah. But it doesn't change anything with regards to the fact that the ROTJ novelization says that Han had never known love before Leia, and Crispin contradicted that. You can't on the one hand dismiss the contradictions to her books made after they came out (Boba Fett/Jaster Mareel), but then use a contradiction to the ROTJ novelization after it came out (Obi Wan and Owen being brothers) excuse the contradiction she made to a book that came out before hers (Han never knowing love -- but then she inserts a "first love").

I was going to reply to you stating much of what Valiento just posted but hje got to it first. Regardless, it seems to me that you've got more of a personal vendetta with the author than with the books, which I think are generally pretty well regarded.

Crispin has done and said many things that make me hold her in a not very high regard, but I am not going to rehash that, except to say that it is deeply ironic that Valiento is lecturing me about "defaming someone with baseless rumors" and "banworthy offenses," especially with regards to Crispin, of all people.

Besides which, truly baseless rumors and incredibly vicious things are said about George Lucas all over this board, as well as Rick McCallum, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Hayden Christensen, etc. People say those things with total impunity, and are often cheered on.

The message board on which she said the things I quoted is now down and cannot be directly referenced. I assure you I am not making them up. I doubt anyone will believe me, but I doubt they'd believe me even if I did post links. They would simply make excuses for Crispin, and indeed, I talked with someone who defended her by way of saying that "a person on the boards was bashing her books, so she reacted."

And I do not care if her books are "highly regarded." I do not think they are that great.

Also, I'm not sure this has been posted, but in regards to Garm Bel Iblis, this whole incident is explained within the first 100 pages of the Paradise Snare, the FIRST book in the trilogy. Did you even read the novels or did you just read summaries and or/ get taken aback with the idea of Han having *gasp* a relationship with a woman besides Leia?

Jeez, not THIS straw man again. I will repeat myself:

I have never, EVER met anyone, Han/Leia fan or no, who believes Han didn't have romances, in fact many romances, before he met Leia. In fact, there's a scene in the ANH script and novelization that has Han cannoodling in the cantina with a "wench"; the scene was cut from the movie but it's available on the "Behind the Magic" CD-ROM.

However, Han had never been in love before Leia. He'd been with his share of women, but he had never been in love. Both Lucas and Harrison Ford have said that Leia was the first woman Han ever loved (well, technically Lucas said "had strong feelings for"), and the ROTJ novelization also says that Han had never known love before Leia.

I'll add:

I don't have a problem with Han having girlfriends and being with women before Leia, nor did I ever doubt he had. I have seen the guy, after all. A guy that good-looking, charming, funny, and galaxy-wise would have been with many women. What I DO have a problem with is him being in love before Leia. Love and sex are not the same thing.

 

Mav it really does seem as if Shelly has been reading second hand accounts of the novels rather than the novels themselves. Because her claims don't seem to resemble what occurs in the stories themselves at all. The ones that are even somewhat close sound really exaggerated in the way that she describes them.

Maybe she has been listening to malicious rumors, slander, and libel from other people (maybe purists) who have vendettas to try discredit authors of the EU, maybe they are false rumors. Maybe she could post proof if her claims have any truth?

Love requires both parties to share the same feelings. Otherwise its just a crush held by one of the parties.

Love was not the case with Bria Tharan, she never returned Han's advances, and generally hurt him every time he tried show he cared about her. Han's level was of one with a crush to someone that didn't want to share feeling, so it wasn't love.

Han was mostly controlled by his sexual feelings, his crush, which felt like love to him. But it wasn't truly love because it wasn't shared by both parties.

"Besides which, baseless rumors and incredibly vicious things are said about George Lucas all over this board, as well as Rick McCallum, Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Hayden Christensen, etc."

Care to post proof where in the literature forum you refer? Because if its outside of the literature forum the literature forum rules do not apply. The litereature forum rules only apply here in the literature forum. Making baseless attacks towards other authors' personal character in the literature forum can be a warnable, or bannable offense, unless proof is given through direct quotes, it doesn't matter which author.

 

I will repeat myself: the RASSM message boards are now defunct and cannot be referenced. I will, however, post this:

"As for my books...There is one scene in each where I believe I managed to capture Han. In each case, LFL commented on it positively, "This is pure Han!"

Please quit with your veiled threats, which I find particularly distasteful in light of the rumor mongering of the person you are making them on behalf of -- and please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about.

Love requires both parties to share the same feelings. Otherwise its just a crush held by one of the parties.

Love does not require both parties to share the same feelings. You can love someone who doesn't love you back. It happens all the time. The quote in ROTJ is "Han had never known love." It's clear no matter how you try to muddy it to make allowances for Crispin's books. You're also trying to downplay what happens in the books to make what I say look like an exaggeration.

Care to post proof where in the literature forum you refer? Because if its outside of the literature forum the literature forum rules do not apply. The litereature forum rules only apply here in the literature forum.

If so, then this message board is practicing a huge double standard.

 

1) I truly DON'T know what you're talking about. Whenever I've emailed Ms. Crispin or chatted with her on AIM I've found her to be incredibly an curteous and nice person. I doubt she'd start any fights with anyone without first being provoked by said fan or fans (and we do know what a crazed group some SW fans can be...RA Salvatore and death threats anyone?).

2) Could you perhaps post a page # for the ROTJ quote? I'd like to see it for myself. I believe you, but also do keep this in mind: perhaps Han merely thought he was in love with Bria, when in fact it was a fleeting feeling. I know I've THOUGHT I've been in love before, but in retrospect, have found that I was, in fact, not in love.

3) Also, what's the big deal with Crispin being proud of her books and her portrayal of Han? LFL liked them, and she was happy to hear that! They were "pure Han," or at least a younger, wetter behind the ears version of him. I found it all completely believable.

 

"As for my books...There is one scene in each where I believe I managed to capture Han. In each case, LFL commented on it positively, "This is pure Han!"

I don't know what you see in that, but that doesn't seem overly egotistical to me. Seems rather tame. To be honest I don't quite see it the way you read into it.

It's pretty much the common things said by any author who is talking about how they felt they did with their characterizations, and mentioning what LFL said about their characterizations, in their books. Zahn, KJA, Brian Daley(may he RIP), are no different in the kind of things they put in interviews.

"Please quit with your veiled threats, which I find particularly distasteful in light of the rumor mongering of the person you are making them on behalf of -- and please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about."

I don't know crispen, I don't have have a connection with her. However I just ask for proof of vicious rumors the sake of any author, that any negative rumors that are given are shown with evidence before they are given, or I can't accept them. So cut the accusation that I'm doing anything for anybody in particular.

"Love does not require both parties to share the same feelings. You can love someone who doesn't love you back. It happens all the time."

That's called an obsession, and may include stalking. Its not true love, and its incredibly unhealthy.

Also Bria's nature was described not much different than how the Han Solo adventure described Han's connection to the various girls during those stories.

"If so, then this message board is practicing a huge double standard."

No, each forum is a seperate entity, with their own mods with their own rules. People can be banned for bringing up the EU in the movie forums for instance(except in certain designated threads there). The various forum rules can be found within their particular forums in either their particular terms of service, faqs, or welcome pages. Each forum has their own standards because they are seperate entities.